The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

Stampede

Well-Known Member
You mean the Crimea "Peninsula"? Because your Geography looks like that of a certain guy from Murcia...

Neither Ukraine nor Russia, it belongs to the UK. The British Empire invaded Crimea (together with the French Empire, and Sardinia, they attacked the Russian Empire; did you noticed the word "Empire"?), do you have any other "injustice" (also known as History) to address? Maybe something about the Roman Empire?
Replacing population? Are you talking about Northern Ireland?
If you are perplexed by History, Perestroika, you should start by reading History, the different versions of History that you can read.

There is a piece of paper that says that Crimea belongs to Ukraine, as soon as you get another piece of paper (and there are a lot of pieces of paper, the Atlantic Charter, for example, saying a lot of things; toilet paper, may I say?), saying something different, that will be "legal" and everything against it will be "illegal". On the other hand, you should already know how irrelevant those terms have always been. Ultima ratio regum, that is your "argument".

Your question is in right the thread, but, to me, it looks like a pie in the sky more than anything else.
Rsemmes

If only Britain had not only colonised Crimea but the entire world, we would all be living a much better life.

Cheers S.
 

Redshift

Active Member
This is an example of an elite Mercenary. An ex army conscript with real combat experience, and then enlisting to U.S. Army as a Foreign Mercenary.

Worked with the Green Berrets, and portayed as some kind of hero who saved some American Soldiers with a self sacrifice, and never returned home. And whose role in the U.S. Army was actually an instruction or a teacher of specialized warfare.

You can of course screen your recruits, and take only those who you deem viable in the Service. If you want, you can also limit your recruits to those with real combat experience, or army backround. But a lot of solid people come from civilians with no combat experience, or army backround. You can also educate and instruct them. Drill them into viable units. You do not need to just throw them in the field with nothing to prepare. And you can mix in more greener recruits with those with actual experience as squad leaders.

However you want to arrange. But more often than not, its well worth the money if your objective is to win a war and you are not doing that well.

The France have also this Program called "Foreign Legion". The Roman Army had a conscription system too, and at least half of their troops were Auxilaries who came from foreign backrounds and fight for money. I would not call Roman Legions, or those Mercenaries especially weak. They were actually one of the finest. They had dire training regimes, and each of them were specialized in certain craft. There were also specialities the Romans did not have, and especially their cavalry were usually foreign mercenaries, that come from north africa.

The actual legions were usually Roman citizens, and their system was very successful and one of the most efficients in that time. Without Mercenaries, they would not have fared too well.

The life of a Roman Legion might not even include actual fighting. Some of them were stationed on vassalized areas, and they were so infamous, that even one Legion could hold a large territory, by just being there. The presense of even one Legion suppressed all the thoughts of mutiny in the local populace, even there would be tens of thousands time more people than in the Legion and the area the Legion was stationed in would be large, such as the area of modern France. The difference of there not being a Legion, and there being even one Legion was huge. It was a symbol of Roman rule, a presence of oppression, and meant that they could bring more. And the Legions itself would never have been successful without the use of Mercenaries. The Legionaries itself were one of the finest on their craft. But so were the Mercenaries. Slingers, Archers, Skirmishers, Scouts, Light Cavalry, Heavy Cavalry and so. The actual Legionaries being the Heavy Infantry, which forms the core of the Legion, and keeps the Legion in check. They advance the middle in the Shield Formation, while the Auxilaries harass and control, and keep the flanks.

Some Mercenaries have their pride of their own. And even to this day, there are some Martial Mercenary Traditions such as the Gurkha Tradition in Nepal. Russians have actually used Gurkha Fighters they have bought from Nepal. They have Mercenary Schools, who train young boys to be elite soldiers or law enforcers and especially Signapore hires them as Polices, India hires them in the army, and the UK have traditionally kept a Gurkha Battallion. But i suppose, the India made a coup with Russia, so that they did not hire, and dissolved some Gurkhas, so that they have no one to hire them. Allowing Russias to hire a large Group of Gurkhas and then some untrained Nepalese Civilians to fight under Russian Army in Ukraine. Getting a few Gurkha Brigades, or even a Battallion is a great boon to your Army. They are disciplined soldiers who come from a martial tradition.

For Ukraine, it would be way more advantageous to be able to hire the Gurkhas to fight with them against Russia. Rather than fight against Gurkhas that have been recruited by the Russians.

Gurkhas are Mercenaries and the whole point of their tradition is to become Mercenaries, so that foreigners hire them as Soldiers or Specialized Police units that have been trained to combat situations. For Riot Control, Hostage Situations and so. This is the life they choose, and in Nepal some of the people might have little other options.

I would not exactly say, for example. That hiring Gurkhas lead to bad things, and result only as a Mutiny. They too have a reputation to upheld. And it wont exactly help to hire troops that have been graduated from their fighting schools if they dont behave and offer value for your money.

Africa is full of all kind of militias and insurgents who have real combat experience, but might be less disciplined than for example, Gurkhas.

Latin and Middle America is full of all kind of criminal organizations and cartels, who have hardened people with real combat experience.

Middle East is full of all kind of people with real combat experience, or at least experience in the conflict zone. The latest achievement is in Syria, where an insurgent civilian Group succeeded in a coup against their actual standing army (al-Sharaa). In Mali, they are now attacking their military junta, which is backed by the Russian Mercenaries. And upon last information, the Russian Mercenaries were forced to abandon their positions.

Afghanistan is full of insurgents and hardened folk, who are specialized in guerilla warfare and using mountanous terrain. And its also one of the poorest regions on earth, with incomes similar to few dollars in month. 100 000 dollars might well mean World to them, if not for their entire village. One of them leaves as a mercenary, then everyone can prosper.

Any of them might well offer even a trained professional career soldier a run for their money. And might know a trick or two they never even heard of.

And of course Russia, is full of Mercenary Companies like Wagner Group and even the United States had one, operating in Africa, which i think is now dissolved. Bakhmut i suppose, was mostly captured by Wagner Group Mercenaries. They had a high amount of losses and were using mostly Convicts that were recruited from Prisons on prospect of getting out of Prison after the Service. But got the job done regardless and forced the Ukrainians to pull back. They formed these so called Storm-Z units, who were then pushed against Ukrainian positions endlessly until the Ukrainians ran out of steam and the mercenaries, did not. And after this, the remaining Mercenaries were supposedly released, and went back to Russian civil society. The amount of convicts they used were stated among the lines of 200 000 and the amount of casualties they had was reportedly around 50 000 in the Bakhmut sector only. So some of them actually survived, and become free citizens in stead of a life in Prison or so. And some of them, of course conducted new assault on Russian civilian populace like rape, murder and such and are back in Prison again. But because they are now War Heroes, they supposedly treat them better than normal convicts and are feeling somehow special for that.

How i understand, also Ukrainians have adopted a use of convicts to some extend. And how i have been told, they use Mercenaries they hire from Latin American drug cartels, who then come in the disguise of a volunteer, but are actually paid to come fighting in Ukraine. I do not know is this true or not, but there are this kind of rumors and if you think about it, it makes sense. They need more soldiers, same as Russia. And while your casualties pile up, you need new soldiers endlessly. If you cannot bring them, your army just might crumble for having manpower shortages. The casualties in the Ukrainian and Russian troops are somewhere along the millions. If not now, before long, it will be. And you need to constantly bring some more. Especially, if you are the one advancing.
The French Foreign Legion are approximately 8000 strong and they are not mercenaries they are a part of the French armed forces, they are volunteers not hired guns.
 

Redshift

Active Member
The French Foreign Legion are approximately 8000 strong and they are not mercenaries they are a part of the French armed forces, they are volunteers not hired guns.
The brigade of British Gurkhas is a volunteer force recruited in Nepal, they are not a mercenary unit they are part of the British armed forces.



I think y
 

Redshift

Active Member
Yes. I call that winning.

To cripple the society that is attacking your society. I call that winning.

And / or to conquer them and subdue them militarily. I definetely call that winning.

At the moment Russia is advancing in Ukraine and conquering ever more territories. This is the reality. It actually looks like Russia is winning.

Which is why. They would need to get their act together if they aim to inflict the so called "strategic loss" on Russia.


You might not entirely grasp what i mean.

Lets put it like this.

You have 200 000 Professional Soldiers in your army. Ok. You are fine with it and you go with it. You acquire nothing more and that is all you have.

Then the other you have 200 000 Professional Soldiers in your army. Then you acquire 300 000 Mercenaries and ten million drones.

You understand what i mean ?

You still have the Professional soldiers. You only gain more.

You somehow think, that the Professional soldiers are suddenly removed, and they wont exist anymore. Why would you do that ?

You KEEP your professional soldiers and THEN you hire Mercenaries to supplement them. Which makes their job so much easier and they WILL be thankful to fight along 300 000 Mercenaries when you acquired them to help on their job.

Now you compare those armies. The other have 200 000 Professionals and nothing more.

The other have the same 200 000 Professionals and 300 000 Mercenaries.

Which one you like more ?


Its not about me. I am nothing. I just give ideas and use my boredom. Dont think about me. Think about you. And if there is anything i say that you could use or enjoy, then do that. If not, then im sorry.

My aim is to help. And i want to help Ukraine.

They are losing territory, and they want them back. It will not be easy. And they will not have the strength to do it alone.

And even supporting their cause in internet is helping them, as the Russians aim to undermine it all the time and spread lies.

DO NOT mistake the Russian attack on Ukraine in anything else than conquering a territory from another country. Everything else is a lie.


Would you not accept 300 000 mercenaries if they would come free, to fight along Australia when Austrlia is attacked ?

Would you say "no, we do not accept your help, we use only our own professional soldiers and no outside force can help us it will undermine our army" ?


What i am suggesting is SUPPLEMENTING the existing Ukrainian force with Mercenaries. And the model i gave was meant to be entertaining in the minds of the worst of the capitalists.


Saying no to 300 000 soldiers to help you in war is not exactly very clever. Who would fight for you ,and die for you. Do you disrespect their sacrifice for your country because they made it for money ?

Are you this proud, that you would for example, rather lose a war and lose your country. Than accept help from a mercenary ?

Do you really despise Mercenaries that much ?

Then what about this. Do you get paid salary if you work in Australian army. Does that make you a mercenary and you should work for free. You are actually paid money to work in Australian army to become a professional. So what you do is then wrong ? You should not take the money. Say to them, i dont need the salary. I will work for free because its the just and honorable thing to do.

Are Australian army personnels paid salaries ?

Isnt this what makes them professionals. Professional means that you are being paid. How is mercenary then not a professional. Mercenary is an Independent. But its stlil a Professional fighter. I suggest you not disrespect them and not look down on them. They might actually be more skillful and dangerous than you think. Mercenaries ARE professionals.

Do you think it wont take courage to take up arms and fight for someone who pay you for it ?

What if you do it from honorable reason. Your mother is sick, she needs money for treatment. You have no other options and you are poor. Then they offer you 100 000 dollar to come fight in a war as a mercenary. Do you think that person is complete shit who does that. Who wont have honor ?

He is actually going in there in the harms way, putting his life on the line for his sick mother. And you despise and disrespect him for that ? That he is "trampling on the soldiers honor" ? What is this ?


Then what about work life ? Should all salaries be taken away from all workers. In some societies they wont pay you salaries. In Communist i suppose, they might not. No one have private property.


Either you have understood me completely wrong. Or we have very different world views which makes it interesting.

Australia in itself might be very different than for example, Europe. Which makes also Australian people very different.

You clearly think in a very different way. Me personally, i dont see any wrong in using Mercenaries as long as its voluntary. Meaning, they are not forced to become mercenary, but make the choise on their free will.

Some mercenaries are actually better on what they do, than your average professional army soldier.

People who choose to become mercenaries, are not pushovers. They are solid people.


You speak of Mercenaries as they would make your odds in winning the war lower.

That when you hire mercenaries, your army actually becomes weaker on having them and you would be better without.

I dont understand this at all.


There seems to be also some form of restriction how you can win ? That you can only win on certain terms or way.

If you win on some other way, it wont count as winning. But if it result as a successful operation, why does it matter in the end ?

You conquer the enemy, and enemy is vanquished. No matter how the vanquished enemy say that its not a win. I would still call it a win.

A win is a win. Even if the methods are questionable.

This is why Russians are doing what they do. For example threatening people on rape, killing of their relatives and so, if they dont go there fighting for them. Its not honorable. But they get soldiers still.


What bout your commanding officer. Would they accept mercenaries if they get them for free ?

Or say no and then fight without ?

It takes courage to do what you do. I would take them.

To say no certainly takes courage. To say no to help for ideological reasons.

"im not fighting with them. They are scum. I would rather be vanquished and my army to lose, than accept help from THEM"

Proud. And a lot of courage. But maybe result in a catastrophic military loss.

A larger, and possibly stronger force would have helped you on your fight. But you say no because they are paid to fight. (and then a salary comes to your account still).
I don't think that you have any real understanding of what a mercenary is.
 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
Another claim of a strike on a Russian combat vessel - a Karakurt class vessel in the Baltic sea near Leningrad (and oil infrastructure).


Needs further proof though.
 

Hoover

Member
Can i ask about opinion on Crimea Island.

If we would pretend, that there would be some kind of negotiation who should control Crimea. Ukraine or Russia. And why. Then what arguments are there for either side to justify the control ?

I never even knew the whole Ukraine thing exist when they annexed it and in my perspective, the whole thing did not exist. Meaning probably as well, that it is somehow not as a shocking event. But how does Russians feel about it, and how does the Ukrainians.

How a country "feels" is in no way a justification of a war. What counts are the treaties the countries accepted.

The information i have found is tricky. There seems to be some kind of geopolitical trick in Crimea. I found one source that claim Crimea being donated to Ukraine within Soviet Union, but then Sevastapol supposedly not ratify the donation at the same time than printing a post stamp that say "Ukraine and Russia Forever Together". How does this go, and why was Crimea donated to Ukraine ? And what does it mean that Sevastapol did not ratify. Why did they not. And does it affect the transaction somehow as in, making it illegal or not ratified within the Soviet system ?

There was a very logical reason for transfer Crimea to Ukrainian admistration in 1954. All supply, water, energie, goods and foods were delieverd by the Ukrainian Soviet Republik. So it was logical reaction to transfer Crimea to the Ukrainian administration. And to be honest, 1954 it really cared nobody inside the USSR.

I also found a name who was arranging this transaction. Nikita Krutsev. But i think he was not the one who signed the document.

Khrushchev gave the order, but the transfer was executed by the presidents of the Russian and the Ukrainian Soviet Republics.

Is it some kind of trick to get foot inside the door as in, some kind of artificial issue to arm wrestle with. Or what is going on in there.

I also found, that at some point before it was donated to Ukraine, Soviet Union replaced its population with Ethnic Russians.

The ethic transfer started in WW2.

This thing perplexes me quite some. And i have hard time on getting my mind over it. As in, i dont have much opinion on either way and see that in somehow as an Ukrainian and Russian inner politic thing.

Until 2014 it was an internal Ukrainian problem regarding the ethnic Russian minorities. With the interference of Russia it escalated rapidly.

Can someone who knows more about this tell me what they think ? I would be interested on hearing any opinion.

Everyone already knows that Ukraine wants it. And Russia wants it too. But on what basis and on what arguments ?

Crimea and Donbas are the rightful possession of Ukraine. Russia has confirmed the borders in 7 treaties.
So Ukriane has it, and Russia wants it despite law and given guarantees and treaties.


It really would be great, if you would just somehow get together and be able to arrange these things in a diplomatic way. This whole thing is agitating the whole world quite some. Especially in Europe.

And the healing process can never start if you continue to just blast at each other.

The "healing process" (nie term) will not start if the aggressor continues bombing the Ukraine and claiming parts of the Ukraine.

So if i can make some additional questions. What kind of peace terms would you suggest and why ?

My suggestion is simple. Russia gets out of Ukraine and on Cimrea i dont know. In my mind they would first get out of all of the other areas, and then would start to negotiate what happens to Crimea. Seems kinda hard to think as Russia, when you have made all the effort to conquer those areas and would then have to just give them away without gaining seemingly anything on return, but the peace.

Russia (dictator Putin) will not leave Crimea and at least Luhanst and Donetz oblasts. And I doubt that they will leave the occupied eareas ob Zaporishia and Charkiv amd Cherson. With that amount of human losses and economical problems Putin has to present a success. The Ulraine and their supporters are knowing that. So the main question is, when Putin can state a victory to his people.
Only Putin will end the war, nobody else.


This option have also been portrayed as a political catastrophe for the Russian ruling party. As in, the Russian population seemingly wants the war to continue in their own terms and the majority of Russians are not ready to make such a peace where the territories are given back. From an outside perspective it is quite easy to say. But Russians supposedly do not share this opinion at all. Which means, that to change their opinion something needs to change. For example, the war effort need to be way more taxing on their society before they start to seek this kind of options. As in, Russia have it still too good to think about releasing the territories and are still somewhat within their own comfort zone. And on the other hand, Ukrainians are not ready to release the territories either. So the war continues when they cannot agree. Both sides seem to have this same mind set, that they just have to endure and the other side need to be hurt more until they break. And then they get used to harder and harder conditions and the thing just escalates endlessly. Lets say if this continues, after a few years this might look really ugly. Both sides are investing exponentially more and more resources to hurt each other in a mind set that "until they break and we wont".

Then on a random question. Why did Peretroika happen. And how did it affect on the dissolve of Soviet Union ? I feel like there is something interesting there, which might not be so evident to someone who did not live there then.

Thank You.
I will write my comments in green.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
France 24 report on Columbians:


Six seconds into the video:

IMG_5093.jpeg

Quite amazing how these things are normalized and no one asks any questions or raises an eyebrow. Just Ukrainian symbols, nothing more, no associations, etc. I understand that most regular people have no idea about anything in relation, but, I mean…

IMG_5094.jpeg

Completely normal stuff, which is a constant occurrence in interviews and photo ops. Anyone with a clue is a Russian propagandist and works for the Kremlin. I mean the EU tells us just that:

There is no evidence that the Ukrainian Armed Forces use Nazi symbols. Nazi and Communist ideologies were banned by Ukrainian law in 2015.



On the subject of Colombians and “just causes”, as the France 24 reports insists (they join for the just cause):


I’d be surprised if they traced those mercs earlier, they would lead them to Ukraine before home and Sudan.


Unrelated to Colombians, but related to the media shenanigans. Today, a few reports (including Financial Times), citing the same source, printed articles about Putin in bunkers again, coup plan by Shoigu, and a whole bunch of other nonsense. Completely comical stuff. Not posting any links as I didn’t keep any, but iStories was the original source, I believe, and a few big outlets picked it up and spread the word. I wonder what was the thought process behind printing the nonsense without any verification and, once again, appear to be circus clowns. Weird stuff.
 

Vanquish

Active Member
Unrelated to Colombians, but related to the media shenanigans. Today, a few reports (including Financial Times), citing the same source, printed articles about Putin in bunkers again, coup plan by Shoigu, and a whole bunch of other nonsense. Completely comical stuff. Not posting any links as I didn’t keep any, but iStories was the original source, I believe, and a few big outlets picked it up and spread the word. I wonder what was the thought process behind printing the nonsense without any verification and, once again, appear to be circus clowns. Weird stuff.



Here is one link I found to this story. I like how you completely dismis it as a clown show. I actually quite believe it. I mean after 4 years of a SMO going absolutley no where one would have to expect the natives to be getting somewhat restless by now. Throw in no internet, high inflation and interest rates etc. Well I'd say Putin should be hiding out in a bunker.

 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
@Vanquish, I don’t want to go point by point to illustrate ridiculousness of the claims (cutting down on posting in general), but here is a good place to start - Kirill did a pretty good job in this thread (though I could add a few more points, you know my “quick” takes, lol):


Original thread on X: https://x.com/kirlant/status/2051365186863337704

Mark Galeotti in the Spectator, via the archive:


Ran into a couple more reasonable thoughts on the subject, but don’t have it off the top of my head. It is rather easy to take this piece apart piece by piece. Reminded me of… what’s his name… the dude that wrote the Trump dossier with golden showers and what not… Whatever, but surely everyone knows who I am referring to.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
Kalibrated is showing some new gains...
and other too.

Is this the resumption of Russian advances?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Kalibrated is showing some new gains...
and other too.

Is this the resumption of Russian advances?
The short answer is yes. I'm working on the next update now, but I've been busy with other things unfortunately. It appears Russia's summer offensive is getting started but it's still early days and gains so far are quite modest. Ukraine also continues the pattern of local counter-attacks. It also appears Russia is still trying to pull Ukrainian forces to the border areas, away from the Donbas, with small gains here and there. I don't think it will ultimately succeed unless they start to make more serious gains there. In fact there's an argument to be made for a bigger push in Sumy and Kharkov border areas precisely because it's likely Ukraine won't defend very hard there.
 

Vanquish

Active Member
At one point Moscow was planning a parade on day 4 of the SMO in Kiev and now Moscow has to ask Kiev for permission to hold a parade in Moscow. I wonder what year 5 will bring.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
At one point Moscow was planning a parade on day 4 of the SMO in Kiev and now Moscow has to ask Kiev for permission to hold a parade in Moscow. I wonder what year 5 will bring.
Yeah that first part is clearly a myth being repeated for humor value as a meme rather than some sort of reality. The second part is more threat then a request for permission, which is more Russia's style in foreign policy anyways.
 

Vanquish

Active Member
Yeah that first part is clearly a myth being repeated for humor value as a meme rather than some sort of reality. The second part is more threat then a request for permission, which is more Russia's style in foreign policy anyways.
The stuggle to survive every day for Ukrainians is real no doubt. However I'm sensing a lot of unrest in Russia to of late. With the high cost of living, lack of internet, high casualty rates and the ever expanding range of Ukrainian drones and missles hitting deeper into Russia. I'm not sure how long Putin can keep this up before he literally lives full time in a bunker. Is he making many public appearances anymore?
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
Yeah that first part is clearly a myth being repeated for humor value as a meme rather than some sort of reality. The second part is more threat then a request for permission, which is more Russia's style in foreign policy anyways.
Seems to be some people are living in meme themed world as if it is the reality. While weird, it is probably not as easy to differentiate for some. Just googled “Putin public appearances” - well, not exactly, looking at the screenshot now, laughing. The AI right away provided the following:

IMG_5110.jpeg

Followed by a whole bunch of links referencing the meme report talked about the other day. It’s a weird world.

In the meantime, the same EU I cited a few post above (#14,308, lack of evidence) now says Soviet Union did not liberate Europe in WW2:

IMG_5107.jpeg

A while back I cited the clip where Kallas questioned Russia and China fighting and winning in WW2 and some questioned my questioning. This is reality today. Everyone plays history as they see fit. These people are not better than anyone else and are quite despicable. Shame and decency is not a thing.
 

Vanquish

Active Member
May I guess that none of the above applies to Ukraine?
Quite obviously it does. Difference is Ukrainians have been dealing with it since day one. Russians are now starting to find out more and more about it everyday. As the agressor state that was supposed to win the war 4 years ago maybe some self doubt will start to settle in with the Russian populace.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
The European Union bought a record amount of gas from Russia's largest natural gas project in the first four months of the year as the Iran war pushes Europe back towards the fuel it has been trying to phase out.
The EU received 91 cargoes from Russia's Yamal LNG project between January and April, totalling 6.69 million tonnes – the highest volume for that period since the project was launched in December 2017, according to new analysis of shipping data published on Thursday by environmental group Urgewald.
Maybe Ukraine should start attacking EU ports... now that there is a truce.

It was supposed to be no war. that was the whole point. After 3 months... Everyone started wondering (doubting).
 
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