Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

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76mmGuns

Well-Known Member
StingrayOZ said:
As for the 57mm is oversized. maybe.. The US just disabled a container ship with 5 rounds of 127mm..
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I was wondering if the 5 inch gun had working in disabling it. I could only find info that shots had been fired, not that the engine was disabled.
Chuck Hill's US Coast Guard blog has posted that 57mm guns aren't likely big enough to stop cargo ships.
 
S

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
spoz said:
There was a reason for the initial plan to buy 12 Arafuras; and anybody who has been, say, off Ashmore Reef in a Fremantle or an Armidale with the trades or the monsoon blowing knows what it was. Close in shore, light weight patrol vessels are fine but once you’re well off shore you want a sea kindly hull with a good grip on the water; and that can maintain better than 15 knots or so in SS4.
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As an example.

How often does the RAN check the fisheries off Heard and MacDonald Islands?

it’s going to be a lot cheaper to send an OPV for an all expenses paid holiday then it would to send a frigate.
 
R

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
If the LCH JV between Austal/Civmec is dead, Civmecs shipbuilding future can only be the Upgraded Mogami(unless other new ships are planned)
If the GPF program is to begin in 2031 and Civmec are contracted to 2028/29 for 6 OPVs, more opvs + upgrades to the class is a good way of filling the gap.

Recently civmec posted a congratulations to MHI, Japanese Government and Defence Australia and also listed a bunch of new jobs for the ‘growing’ OPV program.

Also on the Australian Defence & Industry Analyst YouTube channel at 1m 10secs, Mark Clay(GM CDI-Civmec Defence Industries) talks about the potential for additional opvs and infrastructure upgrades at Civmec.

IMO, The $ in the IIP is only enough for 3 more opvs max.(or 2 with upgrades to the whole class.)

 
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S

Stampede

Well-Known Member
iambuzzard said:
Absolutely we'd all prefer more Mogamis but do politicians care about us anymore?
Imagine a fleet with 6 AWDs, 6 Hunters and 15 Mogamis, plus unmanned missile barges!
In a perfect world we wouldn't need them, but we don't live in a perfect world.
Besides, all us rational beings on this forum want everyone to come home if it goes pear shaped.
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In eight years time the plan is to have three Mogami and hopefully two hunters to add to our three Hobarts.
Maybe one SSN
As for the ANZACs numbers I can’t say other than the youngest of the class HMAS Perth will be by then 28 years of age, which was the retirement age of the first of class. HMAS ANZAC.

So probably eight ships.

Cannot see ship nine can anyone else?

This is our surface combat fleet in best case scenario.

It was just over two years ago The Surface Fleet review recommended the rapid acquisition of between 7 and 11 General Purpose Frigates.

Who would have thought not three years ago the Hunter program would be cut by a third and we would sign on to the maximum recommended total of Eleven new GPF ,three of which would be built overseas.

If this fantasy fleet was suggest three years ago the poster would of been cut down

What does all this mean.

Stuff happens quickly and scripts change.

Add submarines to that mix!
Whats an AUKUS?

The next eight years are a big challenge on many levels.

Please be open to changes to what we think our current and proposed fleet will look like going forward.


Cheers S
 
StingrayOZ

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
StevoJH said:
How often does the RAN check the fisheries off Heard and MacDonald Islands?
it’s going to be a lot cheaper to send an OPV for an all expenses paid holiday then it would to send a frigate.
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Or two..
www.antarctica.gov.au

Another one that didn’t get away! – Magazine Issue 2: Spring 2001 – Australian Antarctic Program

www.antarctica.gov.au www.antarctica.gov.au

But again if these are the only ships fast enough with long enough range, then that's all we have. As food supply comes under pressure from over fishing and fertiliser shortages, OPV's may become super important. They are presence, they can deploy dismounted UUV/UAV. search and rescue. Patroling, policing. Range and endurance are IMO greater priorities than firepower for an OPV.
 
R

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
Update on the Cairncross Dockyard

-Weld Australia
The Cairncross Dockyard project will include the construction of a large-scale graving dock, a 12,000-tonne hydraulic chain jack vertical ship lift, a 1,200-tonne crawler crane, new and expanded wharves, and critical power and water infrastructure. Once complete, the facility will be equipped to perform on-water and out-of-water vessel maintenance, ensuring vessels are ready to meet operational challenges.
 
7

76mmGuns

Well-Known Member
Stampede said:
If this fantasy fleet was suggest three years ago the poster would of been cut down

What does all this mean.

Stuff happens quickly and scripts change.


Please be open to changes to what we think our current and proposed fleet will look like going forward.


Cheers S
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Breaking news- Oz govt orders 27 x Trump Class battleships from the US and 57 x Type 31's built in Indonesia, and gold plated personal fishing boat for the PM

Enough of a change? ;)
 
H

hauritz

Well-Known Member
SammyC said:
I think what I come back to with these discussions, is at the end of the day we still need a vessel like the Arafura to do the longer distance patrolling and surveillance. It can't be done by the Capes, and its too much of an opportunity cost to do it with frigates. And there are lots of things aircraft can't do, like persistence. I think for the next 10 years that is still likely to be the dominant picture.

I think people would be surprised by just how much of the frigate and destroyer fleet uptime gets allocated to patrols and surveillance. When I was at sea, it ended up being about half our job. I think even with six Arafuras permanently allocated to patrols and surveillance, it would still not completely cover the task.

If we upgun the Arafuras, then we still find ourselves in the situation of needing the Arafuras to do the open ocean patrolling and surveilance, just we have spent a lot of money on equipment they will not use for that purpose.

So you end up where you started. Whether we stick with the current armament, or install a whole lot more, the ship is still going to be doing the same function, because that's what's required.

The Arafura's benefit is that it releases a frigate to do something more important, and we can get the very best bang for buck out of this small fleet of real combatants.

With reflection, I think if there is a pot of money available for the Arafuras (which there appears to be), then a few more basic hulls allows more patrols and reconnaissance, say three for an additional continuous loop, releasing another 1.5 frigates (on my maths above) for other more muscular jobs. And for what is left over then upgrade drone support systems and surveillance equipment.

If I had a choice between a big gun and some very fancy front end ESM/ECM gear for the Arafuras, I'm thinking the EW suite is the better option. Most of this equipment is relatively small and it looks like a radar farm. It turns an Arafura however into a floating MC-55 Perigrine. Imagine that capability.

Add to it some very intelligent drones with say a 300-400km range (which the old S100 camcopter had), then it can surveil a seriously large area of ocean.
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Really what we needed were the Offshore Combatant Vessels that was recommended way back in the Rudd 2009 defence white paper. Unfortunately somebody looked at that and decided that OPVs and OCVs were the same thing forgetting that the former was just a constabulary vessel and the latter was a genuine combatant. I also suspect that some in the navy didn't really want to see this vessel take away focus and funding from its majors so they happily downgraded their requirements.

The Arafura to me can be seen as a stepping stone to what vessel will eventually go on to succeed them. The Capes are short lived vessels that will probably need replacing from the mid to late 30s so now is probably the time we should look at what will replace them and eventually the Arafura.

In the mean time we will have to make do with what we have. To me the Arafuras could still be useful vessels but not frontline combatants. They have lots of room for deploying and recovering drones and carrying out other support roles for the navy short of actual combat missions. They still have the potential to be useful ships even if they are not the perfect fit for what we really need.
 
J

JBRobbo

Member
From the scale models displayed and released depictions of the new FFM mast, the arrays appear very similar in shape and size to the JMSDF's latest Asahi class Destroyers with the rectangular X-band arrays of the new OPS-48 surface-search radar (same function as SPQ-9B) at the top and the larger C-band air-search radar and smaller X-band illuminator radar arrays of the FCS-3A system at the middle and bottom respectively, rather than side-by-side on the Asahi's.
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Takao

Takao

The Bunker Group
spoz said:
The design was to be considerably modified, however.
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Yup.

There was a cabel of peeps that decided SEA 1905 was not needed and sought to cancel it. ADFHQ asked for some deeper justifications, so that became a cancel a dedicated MCM replacement and convert two Arafura* to be part-MCM, part-drone mothership. The remnants of the 1905 project would by the new MCM drones.

My mine warfare PWO peer was somewhat expressive about the silliness, but you can see who won that debate.

Good thing mines aren't a thing anymore!

* very early in this discussion I was shown the informal changes to Arafura. Some of the things that stick were the shafts shifted outboard significantly, space under the helideck converted to accommodation, helideck converted to ISO storage for half of it, bunch of CD support equipment forward of the bridge, some other structural changes. I'll let the naval architects in the chat ponder those minor changes.....
 
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