Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[StevoJH]

Government has unfortunately already stated a 2 year drumbeat.
=
Japan
1-Build 2026, Delivery 2029, Commissioning 2030
2-Build 2028, Delivery 2031, Commissioning 2032
3-Build 2030, Delivery 2033, Commissioning 2034
+
Australia - Construction start 2029.
4to11 2036-2050
Or
4to11 2034-2048

Way too slow, should be every 18 months minimum. 2034-2045.

That really depends on what the build timeframe on the Hunter class looks like.

If you could put one ship into service every 12 months with a commitment to continue building at that Tempo, at the 15-20 year mark you get the option to either continue increasing fleet size, or start to sell older ships off on the second hand market at about the time they are due for an expensive midlife update.

 

[iambuzzard]

That really depends on what the build timeframe on the Hunter class looks like.

If you could put one ship into service every 12 months with a commitment to continue building at that Tempo, at the 15-20 year mark you get the option to either continue increasing fleet size, or start to sell older ships off on the second hand market at about the time they are due for an expensive midlife update.

Increase the fleet size.

 

[spoz]

Way, Way, too slow. Canberra seem to be on sedatives. Things could go hot any time.

Where did you get that drumbeat? Everything thin I have seen has the last ship delivering in 2040. The two year drumbeat is for the HCF.

 

[Lolcake]

In an ideal world Japan continues the Australian build concurrent to our construction.

The Hunter class time frame is an absolute joke too. Meanwhile chinese shipyards pumping out 3 to 4 Type 055 destroyers a year and god knows what else. Not good enough. Not enough money spent, woefully under-prepared and underfunded.

The drone and ballistic missile threats deom china needs to be actioned. More research into EMP/laser technology to stop drone swarms. Mass Patriots are simply too expensive

 

[Reptilia]

In an ideal world Japan continues the Australian build concurrent to our construction.

The Hunter class time frame is an absolute joke too. Meanwhile chinese shipyards pumping out 3 to 4 Type 055 destroyers a year and god knows what else. Not good enough. Not enough money spent, woefully under-prepared and underfunded.

The drone and ballistic missile threats deom china needs to be actioned. More research into EMP/laser technology to stop drone swarms. Mass Patriots are simply too expensive

Think we might see NZ order follow Australia’s.
Delivery from Japan > 1-2029, 2-2031, 3-2033 and then 2+ for Nz to replace Anzacs in the mid 2030s.

 

[iambuzzard]

Where did you get that drumbeat? Everything thin I have seen has the last ship delivering in 2040. The two year drumbeat is for the HCF.

I have seen the drumbeats for the Mogami and Hunter. As others have mentioned if we have the option and the political will to get Mogamis 4 and 5 built in Japan and still build at least 8 here. Of course, that's only if it's possible. That would give us a quick boost to numbers with both frigates coming on line.

 

[AndyinOz]

I would imagine that might be constrained possibly by the needs the JMSDF might have. Japan seems to have be very eager indeed to have got this program and contract over the line. For whatever reasons be they political, strategic, alliance building, expansion or solidification. I suppose things might be clearer once announcements are made it appears on the surface from what I've seen that the Japanese are doing us a solid deal without having to add extra funding to upgrade their existing facilities to accommodate builds for the RAN etc.

 

[justinterested]

The 6002 is a good but basic entry level radar. It's a rotating type, dual beam, x band solid state (uses gallium nitride which is the good stuff). It is however lower energy. Its max output is 300kw, in comparison to a SPY 1 that can put out at peak in the multiple MWs (it will cook a chook).

Hey Sammy
Following on from your informative post about the Terma Scanter, I was curious why some versions such as the one on the Canadian OPV (which is also a 6002 model) look chunkier.
Is it because of the addition of an IFF module?
Does this mean the Arafura doesn't have an IFF module, or is it contained within the Combat Management System?

 

[76mmGuns]

Where did you get that drumbeat? Everything thin I have seen has the last ship delivering in 2040. The two year drumbeat is for the HCF.

Isn't one of the priorities to build a sustainable Naval industry, to avoid valley of death? That's why they propose building at this proposed rate, with the in built ability to "surge" to every 18 months? If we commission them yearly, we'll reach the proposed fleet numbers and have a 10 year Vo' Death lasting 10 years.

 

[iambuzzard]

Isn't one of the priorities to build a sustainable Naval industry, to avoid valley of death? That's why they propose building at this proposed rate, with the in built ability to "surge" to every 18 months? If we commission them yearly, we'll reach the proposed fleet numbers and have a 10 year Vo' Death lasting 10 years.

But if we speed up the rate we could replace the older hulls before they need midlife upgrades and move them on to allies as we get more improved versions. That will avoid the valley of death. If everything goes to pot we'll need the extra hulls.

 

[ADMk2]

Hey Sammy
Following on from your informative post about the Terma Scanter, I was curious why some versions such as the one on the Canadian OPV (which is also a 6002 model) look chunkier.
Is it because of the addition of an IFF module?View attachment 54663
Does this mean the Arafura doesn't have an IFF module, or is it contained within the Combat Management System?

Why would an Arafura need an IFF interrogator, when it doesn’t even have a gun?

 

[SammyC]

Hey Sammy
Following on from your informative post about the Terma Scanter, I was curious why some versions such as the one on the Canadian OPV (which is also a 6002 model) look chunkier.
Is it because of the addition of an IFF module?View attachment 54663
Does this mean the Arafura doesn't have an IFF module, or is it contained within the Combat Management System?

Yes I noticed the Arafura 6002 radar is not fitted with the IFF piggyback unit. I don't know the reason, however I think all RAN vessels may use the same responder and interrogator unit. There is a lot of specialised cryptography with this system, which means the hardware is very carefully managed.

It would not suprise me if we have standardised across the fleet with the BAE or Raytheon IFF systems.

 

[Bob53]

Isn't one of the priorities to build a sustainable Naval industry, to avoid valley of death? That's why they propose building at this proposed rate, with the in built ability to "surge" to every 18 months? If we commission them yearly, we'll reach the proposed fleet numbers and have a 10 year Vo' Death lasting 10 years.

Or we could continually evolve them in batches, create air and ASW versions, grow the fleet to a degree in line with our population growth and sell off after 10 year and avoid mid life overhauls. And you couldn’t tell me that wouldn’t deliver an industry and be it would not more expensive than going the the palaver of choosing new ships, adapting them and the then the subsequent cost blow outs.

 

[Reptilia]

Looks like the Mogami contract will be signed within the next week or so with a visit from Japans DM Koizumi.

 

[Maranoa]

Any news on when Nuship Eyre opv2 will be commissioned

 

[Reptilia]

Any news on when Nuship Eyre opv2 will be commissioned

I thought it must be soon as marine traffic had it located in Fremantle. Who knows though… quite a few pics around of Eyre crew in training.
Last year it was stated Q1 for Eyre and Q4 for Pilbara + Gippsland launch in 2026.

 

[seaspear]

I have ben away , re earlier post about drones attacking naval bases and moored ships , Ukraine was able to hit a large percentage of Russian strategic bombers by having trucks parked nearby with dones that could be launched remotely via roof popping open , drones themselves may not sink a ship but a couple into the sensor masts affecting radar and missile control would put any such ship out of action , as this is very difficult to combat would there be an argument for the dispersal of naval assets away from known naval bases to remote pier facilities during hostilities , the RAAF many many fields to enable the dispersal of its assets

 

[SammyC]

https://www.minister.defence.gov.au...very-our-first-three-general-purpose-frigates

so, we now have a signed contract for three mogamis. The government have kept to their timeframes, and they deserve some credit for that.

I wonder what options for additional ships were included in the contract.

 

[StingrayOZ]

so, we now have a signed contract for three mogamis. The government have kept to their timeframes, and they deserve some credit for that.
I wonder what options for additional ships were included in the contract.

I don't think there was that much scope for that. 3 Mogami's gets us up and running. Really its onto Australia to lift itself up past that. 3 is a lot of ships, historically we used to just get 1 from overseas and the rest local, the fact we straight up went with 3 shows how broken we already are. 3 means 1 actual deployable capability, so all our training, ops etc can start to happen immediately.

The Japanese are very worried about the global situation. They already have a deal with Australia, any additional ships could be used to strengthen another alliance, or Japan's own needs. I think relying on endless ship slots from the Japanese would be a huge, huge mistake. They don't have excess capacity they want to commercialise, everything is required or they need to start disbanding their navy to give up ships, they have already delayed replacements for 3 ships for us. Countries like the Philippines also want the ships (Abukuma) the Japanese are decommissioning.. so.. It isn't all about Australia an empty production line.

The idea that they have signed a deal with such an feckless friend that can't even weld together its own steel, as agreed for its own needs undermines the entire relationship. They want us to be peers. They want us to have capacity to make them.

 

[Reptilia]

Mogami Construction in WA apparently will begin in 2031. 5 years for the first if they are to be delivered every 2 years.