Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

Will they do something better? Unlikely and the eventual numbers purchased would be small, making such investments costly. It seems this is more national interests than financial interest.

I believe many defense coop with Turkiye are more National Politics consideration then procurement cost ones. The aircraft that going to be choose as base, will also choose as Political interest rather efficiencies. That's why before the talk are CN235/295. Even if business jet being choose, the rumours talk not on Bombardier but either Dasault or Embrear business jets as base.

Now Frenchie you tube salesman spread rumours that Chinese Y-9 become 'prefer' candidate for AEW&C base using Chinese Radar and Pakistan data link (Link 17). As ussual this salesman going to publicly trash any competitors. Still means the race for AEW&C seems getting momentum.

Like I said before the moment F-15EX being drop, there will be others business and Projects lining up to get portions.

 

[Ananda]

Circulating from an enthusiasts X account on one of C-130H that being refurbished at DI and GMF. Not clear whether this one being refurbished, but looking the hangar I suspect it is in DI (correction it is in GMF).

Shown the camo now got some colour as TNI-AU C-130J, and new glass avionics of Collins base.

Add:

As reminder Kemhan ungkap 20 pesawat C-130 Hercules tipe H dimodernisasi PTDI-GMF back in Nov 25, MinDef claim total 20 C-130H that being and going to be modified by GMF and DI. Thus basically all C-130H, including ex RAAF going to get center wing box, avionics and other structural modernisation.

 

[Ananda]

DI shown video on the progress of Test Flight of N219 prototype.

 

[Ananda]

Exclusivité indonésienne pour débuter la semaine. E-System Solution FZ a été choisie par le gouvernement indonésien pour acquérir 24 avions d’entraînement PC-21 NG pour la formation des pilotes… | Pierre Aycard

Exclusivité indonésienne pour débuter la semaine. E-System Solution FZ a été choisie par le gouvernement indonésien pour acquérir 24 avions d’entraînement PC-21 NG pour la formation des pilotes indonésiens. . Le PC-21 avait notamment été choisi par la France pour assurer la formation avancée des...

www.linkedin.com

This person has access on Euro Defense Export information. Seems E system solutions training infrastructure for TNI-AU base on:

• Agreessor Sq contract with Mig-29,
• LIFT/LCA supply with 24+12 M346FA, which already talk before as Hawk 209/109 replacement,
• Basic Trainer 24 PC-21NG,
• Multi Engine Trainer 12 PC-24

So it is end to end training solution. Question what T-50i and KT-1B place on this scheme, remain the question.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

DI shown video on the progress of Test Flight of N219 prototype.

Once again a whole test flight program....
And some years ago according to multiple sources, Tempo in September 2024 for example,,mass production was already started.
Unbelievable, it looks like this is happen to give opportunities to other manufacturers to supply small twin turboprop aircrafts to Indonesia.

Exclusivité indonésienne pour débuter la semaine. E-System Solution FZ a été choisie par le gouvernement indonésien pour acquérir 24 avions d’entraînement PC-21 NG pour la formation des pilotes… | Pierre Aycard

Exclusivité indonésienne pour débuter la semaine. E-System Solution FZ a été choisie par le gouvernement indonésien pour acquérir 24 avions d’entraînement PC-21 NG pour la formation des pilotes indonésiens. . Le PC-21 avait notamment été choisi par la France pour assurer la formation avancée des...

www.linkedin.com

This person has access on Euro Defense Export information. Seems E system solutions training infrastructure for TNI-AU base on:

• Agreessor Sq contract with Mig-29,
• LIFT/LCA supply with 24+12 M346FA, which already talk before as Hawk 209/109 replacement,
• Basic Trainer 24 PC-21NG,
• Multi Engine Trainer 12 PC-24

So it is end to end training solution. Question what T-50i and KT-1B place on this scheme, remain the question.

"Multi engine trainer", that could be the N219.
Still in my opinion, this E system package is such a waste of money. TNI-AU already have almost everything, from gliders, to the Grob G 120TP, KT-1B, T-50...
And to replace the Hawk Mk.209, the FA-50 is perfect for that.

 

[Ananda]

Personally the one that I'm bit skeptical is PC-24. Light Business Jet for training turboprop heavy Transport fleet ? PC-21NG replacing KT-1B that's more than in average 22 years old, so there's some sense in there. M346FA as Hawk 209/109 replacement will be tossed up with FA-50. M346FA already have BVR missiles that already integrated with, while FA-50 still have trouble get license on integrating AMRAM.

Still I believe the fiscal reality will not go to let all being taken. I still believe the current Grob, KT-1B and T-50i still prove reliable training combo, and more fiscal friendly to be maintained. But on Hawk 209/109 replacement, seems the noises shown direction M346FA will get it. In the end some choices going to be taken to prioritize fiscal reality.

 

[swerve]

M346FA already have BVR missiles that already integrated with, while FA-50 still have trouble get license on integrating AMRAM.

Leonardo's M-346FA web page says "the M-346FA can be equipped with short range infrared guided air-to-air missiles", & the photos on the page only show AAMs in that class. It looks as if the page may not have been updated for a long time, though. Can you provide more information?

 

[Ananda]

looks as if the page may not have been updated for a long time, though. Can you provide more information?

Put this before, as Leonardo shown M346FA is already integrated with Mica. KAI from South Korean media and forums, now try to get FA-50 integrate with either Mica or Meteor after US license problem with AMRAAM. Still they keep offering FA-50 blk 20 as AMRAAM equiped LCA, even no confirmation yet on AMRAAM license for FA-50 blk 20 yet. Thus make FA-50 even in their latest block still not having BVR yet, while M346FA already has one.

I believe Leonardo will also try to make M346FA integrate also with Meteor, thus provide two BVR alternative. From local media and forum, talk the similarities weapon set up of M346FA and Rafale is part of consideration to choose it as Hawk 209 replacement.

 

[swerve]

It's interesting that it's been shown at least twice with Mica missiles beside it, but it's also interesting that I've not been able to find anything except that. No written confirmation. Perhaps Mica's been integrated - or perhaps that's an aspiration. I'd like to know.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

It's interesting that it's been shown at least twice with Mica missiles beside it, but it's also interesting that I've not been able to find anything except that. No written confirmation. Perhaps Mica's been integrated - or perhaps that's an aspiration. I'd like to know.

I also never seen videos or articles about intergration tests and flights of Alenia M346FA with the MICA. In the official online brochure on the website of Leonardo, they are only telling that the Aermacchi M346FA is capable to use the AIM-9L and IRIS-T.

In the past IPTN often presented the CN235-220 MPA with AM39 Exocet missiles on airshows, but in reality it stayed a fantasy, I've never seen CN235-220 MPAs from TNI-AU or TNI-AL armed with Exocets in reality.

 

[Ananda]

The Photo of M346FA come from Farnborough 2024. Leonardo will not bring it to Airshow like Farnborough if they are not already gain MBDA approval (and French for that matter) for MICA integration. So I do believe Leonardo already able to give option for MICA integration. It depends on customers choices.

In the past IPTN often presented the CN235-220 MPA with AM39 Exocet missiles on airshows, but in reality it stayed a fantasy, I've never seen CN235-220 MPAs from TNI-AU or TNI-AL armed with Exocets in reality.

That's because it is not supported by MinDef procurement, not because Aerospatialle has not give green light for integration.

 

[swerve]

The Photo of M346FA come from Farnborough 2024. Leonardo will not bring it to Airshow like Farnborough if they are not already gain MBDA approval (and French for that matter) for MICA integration. So I do believe Leonardo already able to give option for MICA integration. It depends on customers choices. ...

Sounds plausible, but it's not the same as it already having been integrated.

Consider the integration of CAMM into ExLS, & via ExLS, Mk 41. MBDA & LM did that before any customer had committed to it, presumably because they thought it worthwhile. It's since resulted in orders for the combination of CAMM & Mk41.

What you appear to be suggesting here is that MBDA & Leonardo would like to sell Mica & M-346FA as a combination, & will do the work of integration if someone signs up for it. It's interesting, & I wish them luck, but it's not quite the same as having done the work & being able to offer it as a fait accompli.

 

[Ananda]

What you appear to be suggesting here is that MBDA & Leonardo would like to sell Mica & M-346FA as a combination, & will do the work of integration if someone signs up for it. It's interesting, & I wish them luck, but it's not quite the same as having done the work & being able to offer it as a fait accompli.

I more inclined to see Leonardo and MBDA already done the integration job for MICA on M346FA, so they already able to offer MICA integration for M346FA Block 20, as 'option' as what they offer at Fanbourough 2024. It is in my opinion will be too 'bold' by Leonardo if they offer that without already done the integration work with MBDA.

I believe it is similar with BAe offer to Hawk 200 (the one that TNI-AU want to replace with M346FA Blk 20). BAe already claim that Hawk 200 has BVR capabilities with Skyflash, but let the consumers choose that as an option. None of users (Indonesia, Malaysia, Oman) choose to integrate Skyfash to their Hawk 200. However the option still there, which means BAe already done the integration work to make it as option to be use by users.

 

[swerve]

But if they'd done the work, why not say so? Why not put pictures or video online of a successful test firing? Thats what MBDA & LM did with CAMM & ExLS. They didn't bother with hints. Think about what you're saying about BAe & Hawk 200 with Skyflash: not a visual hint, but a specific claim.

In other cases where X has been shown beside Y, but without an explicit claim that they've been integrated, it's because they haven't been integrated. Consider T-50 family: KAI showed the T-50 with a Vixen 500E radar beside it. It was a proposal, which they were happy to integrate if a customer wanted it. Only preliminary (e.g. physical fit) work to establish feasibility had been done. And it never happened.

 

[Ananda]

Think about what you're saying about BAe & Hawk 200 with Skyflash: not a visual hint, but a specific claim.

Well at this time all of us can only speculate on how far the work that Leonardo and MBDA already done in integrating MICA. In the end it is option package they are offering. Leonardo will not put MICA as part of M346FA Blk 20 weapons options, without having already done some work with MBDA. MBDA will not going to allow Leonardo putting their Missile as part of weapons portfolio in a major airshow, if they are not already work out and involve with.

It is an option, but I do still believe both of them already work out on compatibility of MICA with Blk 20 system, before come out and claim it in Farbourough. Like I said just like Hawk 200 and Skyflash was the option that BAe offer, it is also going to be implement when customers want it.

An Option going to cost more, so if anyone going to ask BVR capabilities with LCA, whether Hawk 200 before, FA-50 Blk 20 or M346FA Blk 20, it is going to cost more than basic price. However it is also means the producers already done compatibility work on their system toward BVR capabilities, before dare to market it as part of weapons portfolio. It is their reputational risk if they offer something that are not being work out yet.

Anyway:

3.9K views · 114 reactions | Taking performance to the next level. Today, the N219 takes to the skies with its new blades from MT-Propeller, bringing even better performance across the toughest terrains. #N219 #Nurtanio #PTDI #FlightTest ✈️ | PT. Dirgantara Indonesia

Taking performance to the next level. Today, the N219 takes to the skies with its new blades from MT-Propeller, bringing even better performance across the toughest terrains. #N219 #Nurtanio #PTDI...

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The latest string of flight test by DI for N219 is to test new five blades propeler. This is seems going to be the propeler for production version.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I think

I more inclined to see Leonardo and MBDA already done the integration job for MICA on M346FA, so they already able to offer MICA integration for M346FA Block 20, as 'option' as what they offer at Fanbourough 2024. It is in my opinion will be too 'bold' by Leonardo if they offer that without already done the integration work with MBDA.

I believe it is similar with BAe offer to Hawk 200 (the one that TNI-AU want to replace with M346FA Blk 20). BAe already claim that Hawk 200 has BVR capabilities with Skyflash, but let the consumers choose that as an option. None of users (Indonesia, Malaysia, Oman) choose to integrate Skyfash to their Hawk 200. However the option still there, which means BAe already done the integration work to make it as option to be use by users.

I think what Swerve means is real tests and certifications, and official statements that the aircraft is ready to directly use certain types of missiles. Not as optional choice if the customer want to financial support the development or expecting that it can be used on the aircraft because of showcases on airshows.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Well at this time all of us can only speculate on how far the work that Leonardo and MBDA already done in integrating MICA. In the end it is option package they are offering. Leonardo will not put MICA as part of M346FA Blk 20 weapons options, without having already done some work with MBDA. MBDA will not going to allow Leonardo putting their Missile as part of weapons portfolio in a major airshow, if they are not already work out and involve with.

It is an option, but I do still believe both of them already work out on compatibility of MICA with Blk 20 system, before come out and claim it in Farbourough. Like I said just like Hawk 200 and Skyflash was the option that BAe offer, it is also going to be implement when customers want it.

An Option going to cost more, so if anyone going to ask BVR capabilities with LCA, whether Hawk 200 before, FA-50 Blk 20 or M346FA Blk 20, it is going to cost more than basic price. However it is also means the producers already done compatibility work on their system toward BVR capabilities, before dare to market it as part of weapons portfolio. It is their reputational risk if they offer something that are not being work out yet.

Anyway:

3.9K views · 114 reactions | Taking performance to the next level. Today, the N219 takes to the skies with its new blades from MT-Propeller, bringing even better performance across the toughest terrains. #N219 #Nurtanio #PTDI #FlightTest ✈️ | PT. Dirgantara Indonesia

Taking performance to the next level. Today, the N219 takes to the skies with its new blades from MT-Propeller, bringing even better performance across the toughest terrains. #N219 #Nurtanio #PTDI...

www.facebook.com

The latest string of flight test by DI for N219 is to test new five blades propeler. This is seems going to be the propeler for production version.

Maybe the same or similar type of propeller as the one used on the NC212i.

 

[Ananda]

I think what Swerve means is real tests and certifications, and official statements that the aircraft is ready to directly use certain types of missiles.

Understand on that. What I'm getting at, when you already shown publicly in a major Airshow that certain type of weapons is part of your weapons portfolio, the producer of plane and weapons already done the work on integrating it. It is reputational problem for Leonardo if they are claiming it, without doing integration work with MBDA already. The live test perhaps be done latter on when Leonardo see enough market demand for BVR capabilities for M246FA.

Maybe the same or similar type of propeller as the one used on the NC212i.

MT-Propeler PTDI-Siaran Pers-Lengkapi Kebutuhan Alutsista TNI AU, PTDI Kirimkan NC212i Dengan Propeller Baru is the same propeler that NC-212i use. Both N219 and NC-212i use different but similar class engine, thus it is understandable they will use same propeler class.

Both TPE331 and PT6 alltough different, but in more or less aim for similar class turboprop Opinion: TPE331 versus the PT6 – Smart Aviation Asia-Pacific. Thus using same Propeler make sense by DI to simplified their production chain.

 

[Ananda]

There are also official photos from Leonardo that shown configuration of M346FA with both Rafael Derby and MBDA MICA. Are this means M346 already fully integrated with two BVR missile? or still potential optional. I tend to believe it is still optional, but Leonardo already in my opinion work with both Rafael and MBDA for that option.

 

[swerve]

Understand on that. What I'm getting at, when you already shown publicly in a major Airshow that certain type of weapons is part of your weapons portfolio, the producer of plane and weapons already done the work on integrating it. It is reputational problem for Leonardo if they are claiming it, without doing integration work with MBDA already. The live test perhaps be done latter on when Leonardo see enough market demand for BVR capabilities for M246FA.

I gave you an example of a sensor being displayed beside an aircraft which it hadn't been integrated into, & with no apparent reputational damage to either the manufacturer of the aircraft (KAI) or the sensor (Leonardo). There have been others. I think there would be reputational damage if they said it had been integrated, & that turned out to be false. That wasn't done in the case of the Vixen 500E, & AFAIK hasn't been done in this case.

I'll believe Mica's been integrated on M-346FA when either MBDA or Leonardo, or a user of both Mica & M-346FA, says it has, or it's observed in use.

Even seeing it under a wing, in flight, isn't proof of integration. It could be a fit test before deciding whether to proceed with integration. It would show that both parties have a serious interest in integration, though, & I agree that seems to be the case here.