The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

Hoover

Hoover

Member
What happened to conquer all of Ukraine and erase the country?
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The first plan was to change the gouventment to a Russian puppet regime. You know that plans. And it is still one of the demands of the Russians. A Russian friendly puppet regime.

“Russia says it has handed over the remains of 1,000 soldiers to Ukraine and has received the bodies of 35 Russian soldiers in return.”
A bit misleading the headlines, maybe? Is that Russian propaganda?
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The Russians are in (a slowly and costly) advance. So it is very understandable that the Russiansa gots mor corpses in hands than the Ukraines. I thought you claims yourself as a smart, fact basewd guy. Okay, seems not to be.
 
K

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
Regarding the exchanges of the bodies. If one crosses and occupies the grey zone and moves the enemy lines (much) more often, one would collect way more dead off the battlefield. At the same time, Ukraine’s abilities to evacuate even their wounded from the “difficult”, as Zelensky calls them, parts of the front are very limited and often nonexistent. Also true for the Russian side, especially for those infiltrating behind the lines.

I would also propose that the Ukes do not bother much collecting the dead Russians, which is obvious from the very early exchanges when the territory did change hands and significant Russian casualties were reported, but the ratios would still be heavily in Russian favour in the exchanges. I highly doubt the practice has changed when they are constantly (on average) retreating.
 
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personaldesas

Active Member
Beltrami2005 said:
Because a death by 1000 cuts is cheaper than going all in and risk Russia to go kaboom and damage us. Its like boiling a frog.
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Even if that were cheaper for the EU (which I’m not convinced it is), the price is still being paid mostly by Ukrainians (and Russians) with their lives and livelihoods.

Beltrami2005 said:
If you look 2022 if we went full in then, Russia would have caused a big problem. Now? Its bleeding out, which is far less messy.

The best outcome would be if Russia just silently croaks out.
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If you think that is true, then you’d also have to concede that properly arming Ukraine earlier would likely have made Russia bleed out faster and more effectively.
 
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Beltrami2005

Beltrami2005

Member
personaldesas said:
Even if that were cheaper for the EU (which I’m not convinced it is), the price is still being paid mostly by Ukrainians (and Russians) with their lives and livelihoods.


If you think that is true, then you’d also have to concede that properly arming Ukraine earlier would likely have made Russia bleed out faster and more effectively.
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It definitly is cheaper for us. But now lets see how the iranian regime can be removed, then we look at the other regional middle power russia.
 
rsemmes

rsemmes

Active Member
vikingatespam said:
This is all familiar territory. Russias own axes of advance on day 1 indicate what the plan was. Total control. Putins own statements on the validity of the UKR state tell us what we need to know.

Stop pretending like we havnt already addressed this.
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So familiar that the BBC decided to update something from March 25 in February 26 to re-familiarize us all.
Even when we have already addressed fairy tales, I don't think it's a bad idea to re-familiarize with the original version of the fairy tale.

Maybe what you want to know? Not advancing towards Lemberg means "total control"?
 
rsemmes

rsemmes

Active Member
Hoover said:
The first plan was to change the gouventment to a Russian puppet regime. You know that plans. And it is still one of the demands of the Russians. A Russian friendly puppet regime.


The Russians are in (a slowly and costly) advance. So it is very understandable that the Russiansa gots mor corpses in hands than the Ukraines. I thought you claims yourself as a smart, fact basewd guy. Okay, seems not to be.
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Am I "claiming" anything?

If we know that it was about "a Russian friendly puppet regime", why have we been selling "that the goal of the invasion was in effect to erase the state of Ukraine" and why a lot of people have been buying it?
You are missing the point, anyway. The headlines and why to include Russian casualties but not Ukrainian casualties, why trying to sell (to "smart people?) only one version of a fairy tale.
 
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rsemmes

rsemmes

Active Member
personaldesas said:
I was talking about a hypothetical regime change, you might have missed that. They were supplying Russia with equipment at one point, so that’s why I asked about that.
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I didn't miss selling the skin before killing the bear, it's just that I think that oil prices will react long before the supply of Shahed runs dry.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
personaldesas said:
I was talking about a hypothetical regime change, you might have missed that. They were supplying Russia with equipment at one point, so that’s why I asked about that.
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Iran is still a source of equipment for Russia so this would be a problem for them. Iran is also an economic partner and trade between them is growing. However there's the other side of the coin, a massive expenditure of western munitions in the Middle East means likely less available for Ukraine, especially those valuable and expensive Patriot interceptors. And it's not clear this will lead to regime change, but it is clear that substantial stockpiles will be used up.
 
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KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
^ Exactly. Regime change is far from a given (and unlikely, in my opinion). Hence, the more appropriate and less hypothetical question is if Russia is interested in kinetic action against Iran.

I am assuming Germany will now work harder to find the 30 Patriot missiles, so that it can send those 5 to Ukraine.

@Feanor, what kind of equipment Iran supplies to Russia? All I had read about lately are the ballistic missiles that we have never seen the evidence of yet and the claim has been circulating for couple of years now (?).

Edit: another obvious angle:

IMG_4097.jpeg
 
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vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
rsemmes said:
So familiar that the BBC decided to update something from March 25 in February 26 to re-familiarize us all.
Even when we have already addressed fairy tales, I don't think it's a bad idea to re-familiarize with the original version of the fairy tale.

Maybe what you want to know? Not advancing towards Lemberg means "total control"?
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I dont speak for the BBC, and Im pretty sure the BBC doesnt speak for anyone here. If you have a beef with the BBC, go complain somewhere else about it.
 
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vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
rsemmes said:
Am I "claiming" anything?
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Why dont you come out and take a stance on something ?

rsemmes said:
If we know that it was about "a Russian friendly puppet regime", why have we been selling "that the goal of the invasion was in effect to erase the state of Ukraine" and why a lot of people have been buying it?
You are missing the point, anyway. The headlines and why to include Russian casualties but not Ukrainian casualties, why trying to sell (to "smart people?) only one version of a fairy tale.
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For the same reason the RU media doesnt talk about RU casualties (wrong audience). You already know this, why are you bringing this up again ?
 
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KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
Interesting factoid, something I did not know about:

Ukraine produced about 1.7 million tons of oil in 2021. It also imported significant volumes that were processed at the Kremenchuk refinery - which has a capacity of 19 million metric tons per year - as well as at several smaller plants.

At the start of the war in February 2022, Russia began targeting Ukraine's refineries.

The effective destruction of Ukraine's last refining capacity in mid-2025 forced traders to boost fuel imports and created a dilemma of what to do with Ukraine's oil production, one of the sources said.

With no domestic refining capacity, Ukraine was forced to export oil, and Druzhba was the only route available, the source said. The section of the pipeline network in Ukraine is owned by the State Property Fund.

Reuters was unable to determine Ukraine's current level of oil production. Ukrainian media reported that in 2024 Ukraine's largest oil company Ukrnafta produced 1.4 million tons of oil, roughly the same as in 2023.

Ukraine was injecting some 40,000 metric tons of oil monthly into the Druzhba pipeline before Russia's strike, according to a second industry source. The other sources confirmed there were exports but did not provide any estimate of the volumes. All three sources asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the issue.


The oil pumped through this pipeline (heading to Hungary and Slovakia) in 2025 totalled nearly 10M tonnes.

The fact that Ukraine has zero refining capacity and is fully dependent on fuel imports since the middle of last year is not overly advertised either. The article says that Russia started targeting UA refineries at the beginning of the war. I wonder how intense the campaign was since usually the talk is mostly about the electrical grid and generation facilities.
 
Beltrami2005

Beltrami2005

Member
KipPotapych said:
Interesting factoid, something I did not know about:

Ukraine produced about 1.7 million tons of oil in 2021. It also imported significant volumes that were processed at the Kremenchuk refinery - which has a capacity of 19 million metric tons per year - as well as at several smaller plants.

At the start of the war in February 2022, Russia began targeting Ukraine's refineries.

The effective destruction of Ukraine's last refining capacity in mid-2025 forced traders to boost fuel imports and created a dilemma of what to do with Ukraine's oil production, one of the sources said.

With no domestic refining capacity, Ukraine was forced to export oil, and Druzhba was the only route available, the source said. The section of the pipeline network in Ukraine is owned by the State Property Fund.

Reuters was unable to determine Ukraine's current level of oil production. Ukrainian media reported that in 2024 Ukraine's largest oil company Ukrnafta produced 1.4 million tons of oil, roughly the same as in 2023.

Ukraine was injecting some 40,000 metric tons of oil monthly into the Druzhba pipeline before Russia's strike, according to a second industry source. The other sources confirmed there were exports but did not provide any estimate of the volumes. All three sources asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the issue.


The oil pumped through this pipeline (heading to Hungary and Slovakia) in 2025 totalled nearly 10M tonnes.

The fact that Ukraine has zero refining capacity and is fully dependent on fuel imports since the middle of last year is not overly advertised either. The article says that Russia started targeting UA refineries at the beginning of the war. I wonder how intense the campaign was since usually the talk is mostly about the electrical grid and generation facilities.
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Its also important to note that not a single russian refining plant west of the ural is operational anymore.

Ukraine knocks out 38% of russias refining capacity
 
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