The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Your propaganda breaks at the fact, that it is Russia that is attacking Ukraine and is not able to progress since 4 years, infact it holds less land now than it did 4 years ago. Meanwhile Ukraine is able to hold.

If you attack and dont gain much land it means...you lose alot. Men and material. Its quite simple.
This is a blatantly untrue statement. It is February 15th 2026. 4 years ago is February 15th 2022, ~a week before the invasion started. The only parts Russia "held" at that time were Crimea, and the LDNR territories.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
In the simulated world:




The tweet (I did not click on the YouTube link, of course, but y’all are welcome to witness the epic victory): https://x.com/SanderRegter/status/2023135926629838950

From the real world, Oryx confirmed UA losses in the past week (it will be interesting to see what these numbers look like in the following weeks):



Source: https://x.com/Rebel44CZ/status/2023015687598522421

Simulated world, parroted/promoted by Bloomberg to boot:



Spreading the simulation:

The Taman facility, situated near Crimea, is a critical node in Russia’s energy export network. Ukraine’s repeated strikes on such infrastructure aim to disrupt logistics and exert pressure on the Kremlin amid ongoing hostilities.

From: Ukraine Strikes Key Russian Energy Hub in Krasnodar | Sada Elbalad

Ukraine's long-range drone strikes on Russian energy sites aim to deprive Moscow of the oil export revenue it needs to pursue its full-scale invasion.

From (PBS): Ukraine drone strike hits Russian Black Sea port ahead of peace talks

Also from (Australian outlet): Ukrainian drone strikes Russian Black Sea oil port

And so on. In the real world, in the meantime:



And, from June 2023:

Two of the sources said LPG operations at the Taman transhipment complex, which has a capacity of 20 million tonnes of cargoes per year, would be mothballed indefinitely.

According to the available data, railway supplies of LPG to Taman from Russia’s and Kazakhstan’s suppliers stood at 192,000 tonnes in January – May. Last year the complex shipped 328,000 tonnes of Russian and Kazakh LPG.

The sources said that the complex was for now handling LPG cargoes from stockpiles in the port.

“They will stop it,” one of the sources said. Other market sources said they were studying other routes for LPG exports from Russia, including Poland and China.


Source: https://www.kslm.news/exclusive-russias-taman-port-set-to-suspend-lpg-exports-over-drone-danger/

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right (c) Gerry Rafferty of Stealers Wheel. But,



Simulation peeking into the real world:



So what is the thought process here? I genuinely do not get it. What is the purpose of the circus? What are the expectations of things to come once the performance is over? The music will obviously stop playing at some point, then what? This is the music, by the way (this thing has been stuck in my head like no joke while typing this post):



Stumbled into a few posts and articles saying that Russia struck Flamingo production facility with no references to the source. Spent a little bit of time and found the source for the claims (about 24:30 in to the video; he talks in English, but it is dubbed in Ukrainian over the original):


One of the articles (that finally cited a source):


Not sure I believe it, actually. The whole thing is a ruse. He again claimed the Kucherov Yar strike on the Oreshnik launchers to be factual -> see one of my previous posts on the subject.

A more believable Russian strike on the Ukrainian MIC:

A few months ago, a barrage of Russian drones destroyed the main facility that produces drones for Lasar’s Group, incinerating about $35 million in equipment, Yelizarov said, including a large stockpile of weapons. (The target and damage from the attack have not been previously revealed.)

From The Atlantic via the archive: https://archive.is/qwOZx

Anyway…
 
This is a blatantly untrue statement. It is February 15th 2026. 4 years ago is February 15th 2022, ~a week before the invasion started. The only parts Russia "held" at that time were Crimea, and the LDNR territories.
Thats wrong, Ukraine was able to push back most of the hordes in its entire north, evrything west of the Dneper river was cleansed. So far Russia lost over 40% of the areas it captured after the initial attack.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
I think the most suprising thing we learned in this pathetic war...is how weak russia is. It always had this renomee as military power, which has completly evaporated. At this stage i dont see them as military threat for europe anymore. Russia is weak. It can cause trouble but thats about it
"Now it’s clear that the threats we face demand a step change in our defence and security."
But, what do they know?
"European leaders, along with military and civilian officials, have just discussed necessary consequences at the annual Munich security conference."
BTW, Ukraine did not "push", Russia pulled back; in part due to the Istanbul negotiations, as it was posted here. Actually, Russia was able to redeploy those troops to the "south of the Dniepr" that Ukraine was not able to hold.

Now, talking seriously...
Indeed, we know that Moscow’s intentions range wider than the current conflict.
-As Russia knows about our "evil" intentions, I would guess.
Britain is building at least six munitions factories, which will generate an “always on” capability to sustain munitions stockpiles.
-Great news! Even if UK MoD already twitted those great news in 2023; maybe it was in 2022. On the other hand, "A new factory in Wales seen as crucial to boosting UK munitions production remains unopened more than six months after its planned launch, adding to a string of delays dogging the armed forces." Also theguardian.
Procurement of several thousand armoured vehicles has started, accompanied by an expansion of industrial capacity.
-Those vehicles that no one will use because of drones?
In addition, the European Union’s Security Action for Europe (Safe) initiative will inject €150bn (£130bn) to strengthen Europe’s defence industrial base.
-Certainly, great news for the good, old MIC.
Rearmament is not warmongering.
-But we know that once you have a new toy, you play with it. And, in case we need oil from somewhere, we will have our weapons ready or in case we have to defend Iceland.
...

NATO is the most successful military alliance in history and today, together, its military might is unsurpassed.
-Well, it would make sense that Russia wants to be prepared against all that might.

I was surprised to find Ukraine in the front page of 2 Spanish newspapers. Ukrainian corruption was, again, in a French one; a "running" ex-minister, this time.
Empty Ukraine: 3 deaths for each birth.
-Yes, Russia has an issue with its birth rate.
Taifun: Secret lab for drones. (Paywall)
-To be honest, it looks more like a couple of friends working in mum's garage than like a research facility; that may get blown up by Russian missiles.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
I dont understand one thing...this submarine was quite new. Build in 2014 i think. Its loss is a gigantic financial loss. Why does russia not even have basic sea barriers to protect its harbor entrances? Why are even such high value targets with zero protection?
Sea barriers wouldn't stop a Storm Shadow. It isn't a sea skimmer. It can attack from any angle.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sea barriers wouldn't stop a Storm Shadow. It isn't a sea skimmer. It can attack from any angle.
The submarine was likely damaged by a near-miss from a unmanned boat. So in theory sea barriers should have worked.

Thats wrong, Ukraine was able to push back most of the hordes in its entire north, evrything west of the Dneper river was cleansed. So far Russia lost over 40% of the areas it captured after the initial attack.
Most of Russian gains in the initial attacks weren't properly under control. Russian forces bypassed towns and cities, to rush inward. They were pushing for a collapse of Ukraine's government. Russia didn't consolidate actual control until after they pulled back from Kiev. The biggest losses of ground came in the fall of '22, when Ukraine collapsed the Kharkov front, and Russia then withdrew from the right shore in Kherson region. Since then Russia has recaptured about a third of what they lost in the north-east, and gained quite a bit of ground in Donetsk region and eastern Zaporozhye. I don't have the math, but I suspect Russia holds about the same amount of Ukrainian soil that they did in Sept. of '22.

As for hordes... it's precisely a lack of manpower from the Russian side that made Ukraine's counter-attacks successful.
 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
NATO is the most successful military alliance in history and today, together, its military might is unsurpassed.
-Well, it would make sense that Russia wants to be prepared against all that might.
NATO strong ? Surely you jest. NATO collectively has hardly done anything to improve its situation. Can Britain, France or Germany field a full strength brigade with supplies for more than a week ?

NATO was dying on the vine before the Russian clown circus came into town. Now we have Cold War 2.0.
 

personaldesas

Active Member
So what is the thought process here? I genuinely do not get it. What is the purpose of the circus? What are the expectations of things to come once the performance is over?
If you base your takeaway on a random ~15k-follower X account, you’ll inevitably end up with pretty wild narratives. On a platform that size you can find literally any take you want, from solid analysis to complete nonsense, all presented with the same level of confidence.

But that doesn’t show some broad propaganda effect or mass delusion, it mostly shows that you’re sampling weak sources. Small, low-credibility accounts aren’t a proxy for mainstream analysis or expert consensus. If you compare that to established analysts and well-sourced reporting (as you did with Rob Lee), the gap is pretty obvious. The issue isn’t “everyone is deluded,” it’s that the source selection is poor.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
NATO strong ? Surely you jest. NATO collectively has hardly done anything to improve its situation. Can Britain, France or Germany field a full strength brigade with supplies for more than a week ?

NATO was dying on the vine before the Russian clown circus came into town. Now we have Cold War 2.0.
NATO's low readiness and yet great total strength aren't a paradox. NATO together is very powerful and nobody can really match them. But because of this they haven't had to maintain high readiness of forces. They've also been leaning on US power for a long time. I think if Britain, France, or Germany really had to field a full strength brigade they would do so. In fact if push came to shove, I think they could field far more than that. The Ukrainian armed forces were in a sorry state in '14, but they sent much more than a brigade to the Donbas. NATO has a hard time committing to field forces for political reasons. But if they had no choice, they certainly have the capability. Even if it required some painful and unpleasant decision-making.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
NATO strong ? Surely you jest.
You are surely jesting, after reading the article.

Air Chief Marshal Sir Richard Knighton (UK chief of the defence staff) is jesting, according to you, he states that: "Its military might is unsurpassed."
I only made a comment about all that might.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
If you base your takeaway on a handful of random ~15k-follower X accounts, you’ll inevitably end up with pretty wild narratives. On a platform that size you can find literally any take you want, from solid analysis to complete nonsense, all presented with the same level of confidence.

But that doesn’t show some broad propaganda effect or mass delusion, it mostly shows that you’re sampling weak sources. Small, low-credibility accounts aren’t a proxy for mainstream analysis or expert consensus. If you compare that to established analysts and well-sourced reporting (as you did with Rob Lee), the gap is pretty obvious. The issue isn’t “everyone is deluded,” it’s that the source selection is poor.
Do you wonder if that "mass delusion" is, maybe, inspire by the "pretty wild narratives" of Kallas (After more than a decade of a conflict, including 4 years of full-scale war in Ukraine. Russia has barely advanced beyond the 2014 lines), who doesn't seem to be able to see the "land corridor" and Zelenski (He also called for a clear date for Ukraine to be allowed to join the EU) and his wishes?
 

personaldesas

Active Member
NATO's low readiness and yet great total strength aren't a paradox. NATO together is very powerful and nobody can really match them. But because of this they haven't had to maintain high readiness of forces. They've also been leaning on US power for a long time. I think if Britain, France, or Germany really had to field a full strength brigade they would do so. In fact if push came to shove, I think they could field far more than that. The Ukrainian armed forces were in a sorry state in '14, but they sent much more than a brigade to the Donbas. NATO has a hard time committing to field forces for political reasons. But if they had no choice, they certainly have the capability. Even if it required some painful and unpleasant decision-making.
I’m less certain about the societal and political willingness side, especially in countries like Germany. After decades without direct war exposure, public tolerance for casualties and long combat deployments is likely quite low. I assume that can make sustained force generation and deployment politically difficult, even if the material capability exists.
 

personaldesas

Active Member
I’m less certain about the societal and political willingness side, especially in countries like Germany. After decades without direct war exposure, public tolerance for casualties and long combat deployments is likely quite low. I assume that can make sustained force generation and deployment politically difficult, even if the material capability exists.
On top of that, the political landscape is quite fragmented, and information and influence campaigns appear to be quite effective at amplifying divisions. You can already see how controversial even indirect military support is, there is a non-trivial segment of the population that views supplying Ukraine with means to defend itself as escalatory or somehow “pro-war.” Some voices even argue for munich-treaty-style arrangements with Russia in order to restore stability (Germans of all people should remember how that can work out).
If even that level of indirect support is this contested, it’s reasonable to question how much consensus there would be for deploying national combat troops. I honestly think a meaningful share of people are so strongly "anti-war" that they would prefer direct foreign rule over armed resistance.
 

Redshift

Active Member
I’m less certain about the societal and political willingness side, especially in countries like Germany. After decades without direct war exposure, public tolerance for casualties and long combat deployments is likely quite low. I assume that can make sustained force generation and deployment politically difficult, even if the material capability exists.
Yes, obviously in the face of existential threats to their existence the German population would just refuse to defend themselves, come on be realistic.
 

Redshift

Active Member
. I honestly think a meaningful share of people are so strongly "anti-war" that they would prefer direct foreign rule over armed resistance.
What total rubbish, please provide some form of evidence of what a "meaningful share" is 5, 10, 20, 50, 70 percent?

Do you think that people would just love to be be part of a Russian empire, that way they could become colonial troops for their overlords and inherit the amazing lifestyle and life expectancy of Russia.
 

personaldesas

Active Member
Yes, obviously in the face of existential threats to their existence the German population would just refuse to defend themselves, come on be realistic.
Please read my point again. I’m talking about the political and societal threshold for sustained deployments being higher. You seem to be responding to a different claim I didn't make.

Do you think that people would just love to be be part of a Russian empire, that way they could become colonial troops for their overlords and inherit the amazing lifestyle and life expectancy of Russia.
Please read my point again. My claim wasn’t that the general population would *love* foreign rule or welcome it or not strongly dislike it. I said I wouldn’t be surprised if a meaningful share of people would be reluctant to take up arms in a scenario of direct threat or occupation. That’s a question of *willingness to fight*, not enthusiasm for the outcome.

What total rubbish, please provide some form of evidence of what a "meaningful share" is 5, 10, 20, 50, 70 percent?
Around 60% is a reasonable ballpark based on recent polling.

Die Zeit said:
A clear majority of 59 percent, however, say they would “probably not” or definitely not be willing to personally defend Germany with a weapon in the event of a military attack.
Die Zeit said:
Only 16 percent would definitely fight for Germany.
 
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personaldesas

Active Member
@Redshift I understand this is an emotional topic for some, but the tone of your replies is getting unnecessarily heated. You’re pushing back against positions I didn’t state. Maybe in the future take a breath and reread calmly before replying a bit too fired up.
 
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Hoover

Member
If 16% of all Germans will fight for Germany, that means 13 million fighters. That´s a lot. To add are those who will fight for Germany if they will be attacked. The ZEIT writes that less than the half of Germans won´t fight. Okay. That should be enough. And in case of war there is a lot of more to do, fire service, medical...

Germany is not able to arm end equip 100.000 additional soldiers, by the way. Not to mention a million....
 

personaldesas

Active Member
If 16% of all Germans will fight for Germany, that means 13 million fighters. That´s a lot.
Die Zeit is referring to people eligible for military service, not the total population.

For the sake of argument, if one assumes (the 2009 number of) roughly ~15 million people fall that into that eligible group, then 16% would equal about ~2.5 million potential fighters, and that would be a theoretical upper bound under full mobilization, not a ready, trained, and equipped force.


For scale only (not as a direct comparison): Russia’s active military is around ~1.5 million personnel today, without full mobilization. Directionally, that shows that a (to be fair very pessimistic) 16% willingness figure alone would not automatically translate into obviously sufficient effective manpower for a large-scale, sustained war compared with many countries.


This and these numbers are not meant as an accurate prediction of what would actually happen, only to underline that manpower assumptions matter, and that population sentiment at this scale is not trivial and can be concerning.
 
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Die Zeit is referring to people eligible for military service, not the total population.

For the sake of argument, if one assumes (the 2009 number of) roughly ~15 million people fall that into that eligible group, then 16% would equal about ~2.5 million potential fighters, and that would be a theoretical upper bound under full mobilization, not a ready, trained, and equipped force.


For scale only (not as a direct comparison): Russia’s active military is around ~1.5 million personnel today, without full mobilization. Directionally, that shows that a (to be fair very pessimistic) 16% willingness figure alone would not automatically translate into obviously sufficient effective manpower for a large-scale, sustained war compared with many countries.


This and these numbers are not meant as an accurate prediction of what would actually happen, only to underline that manpower assumptions matter, and that population sentiment at this scale is not trivial and can be concerning.
Russia in its primitivism and barbarism is so low below our cultural and economical standard, that i absolute would prefer death over russian rule over Europe. Your suggestion is like thinking Egypt under Ramses II would accept to be ruled by some australian aboriginie tribal leader. The whole idea is absurd
 
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