Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[CJohn]

The Royal New Zealand Navy’s multi-role vessel HMNZS Canterbury has sailed into Suva for annual Operation Calypso, delivering Bluebottle USVs
to help identify and track vessels operating suspiciously in Fiji’s exclusive economic zone.

HMNZS Canterbury delivers leading-edge technology to support regional security tasks in Fiji - Defsec

The RNZN multi-role vessel HMNZS Canterbury has sailed into Suva for annual Operation Calypso, delivering Bluebottle USVs.

defsec.net.nz

 

[Catalina]

Thousands of new jobs as MOGAMIs chosen to replace RAN ANZACs.
RNZN to follow?

 

[Stampede]

Thousands of new jobs as MOGAMIs chosen to replace RAN ANZACs.
RNZN to follow?

NZ need to work out what sort of Navy they need and what they can afford.
If they want big ships then going with Mogadishu makes a lot of sense for so many reasons.
This time make it three ships not two.

But the starting point is the answer to the opening sentence.

Cheers S

 

[jbc388]

NZ need to work out what sort of Navy they need and what they can afford.
If they want big ships then going with Mogadishu makes a lot of sense for so many reasons.
This time make it three ships not two.

But the starting point is the answer to the opening sentence.

Cheers S

The problem being that it will take the NZ government 15 years to actually make a decision!!!

 

[Catalina]

"A larger more lethal naval fleet"
- Vice Admiral Mark Hammond RAN describing the decision to procure the Mogami-class frigates

Has the NZG released when it will announce our frigate replacements?

 

[Rob c]

NZ need to work out what sort of Navy they need and what they can afford.
If they want big ships then going with Mogadishu makes a lot of sense for so many reasons.
This time make it three ships not two.

But the starting point is the answer to the opening sentence.

Cheers S

The reality is that the money the current government propose to spend is only going to be good for replacing current equipment with newer but lower end replacements and some new missiles,
While other countries are going for 3% GDP and NATO 5% the PM said we may reach close to 2%. In context during the 1980's to maintain 4 frigates and a strike wing plus capabilities we have now we averaged 2.5% GDP and what we had was a lot less high tech and expensive than what is require today.

 

[Aerojoe]

I expect that there will be a lot of pressure from across the Tasman to now follow the SEA3000 decision and walk the earlier talk on interoperability that Minister kept referring to when launching DCP

 

[seaspear]

NZ need to work out what sort of Navy they need and what they can afford.
If they want big ships then going with Mogadishu makes a lot of sense for so many reasons.
This time make it three ships not two.

But the starting point is the answer to the opening sentence.

Cheers S

Mogadishu ?

 

[Stampede]

Mogadishu ?

Hahaha
Good pickup
Quick post without a doing a good check.
Bloody pre-fill

My fault

Thanks

Cheers S

 

[Challenger]

Mogadishu ?

The Somalian priate skiff variant proposed for the RNZN to align with budget and for operations within our ‘benign Strategic environment’

 

[InterestedParty]

Presumably we would not offer any work offsets after what NZ did on the ANZACs, promising 4 and only ordering 2

 

[seaspear]

Perhaps Australia could donate the Anzacs they have to N.Z after they finish with them, on paper a dramatic increase in fleet size

 

[Hawkeye69]

Australia have made a good decision here, will NZ go the same way only time will tell but we cannot man what we have today so my better judgement tells me a smaller smarter navy looms with more autonomous vessels and more emphasis on the Canterbury replacement x2. Personally Japans new OPV looks a good option to replace both our OPV’s and frigates, its built to be very automated and only needs a crew of 30, Japan has the same manning issues as we do. Another factor to consider is NZ typically elects Government for 2-terms so unless the current Govt totally collapsed in the next 12 months like em or not they will likely scrap together another term, but consider this the time we need to really get serious on frigate replacements Labour will be governing and Winston Peters will no longer be around and the question needs to be asked if defence will be a priority?

 

[Todjaeger]

Australia have made a good decision here, will NZ go the same way only time will tell but we cannot man what we have today so my better judgement tells me a smaller smarter navy looms with more autonomous vessels and more emphasis on the Canterbury replacement x2. Personally Japans new OPV looks a good option to replace both our OPV’s and frigates, its built to be very automated and only needs a crew of 30, Japan has the same manning issues as we do. Another factor to consider is NZ typically elects Government for 2-terms so unless the current Govt totally collapsed in the next 12 months like em or not they will likely scrap together another term, but consider this the time we need to really get serious on frigate replacements Labour will be governing and Winston Peters will no longer be around and the question needs to be asked if defence will be a priority?

If NZ opts for an all-OPV fleet in the RNZN in place of frigates, then NZ will have effectively ceded control of NZ's maritime approaches and interests, becoming completely dependent on friends and allies as well as the whims of potential aggressors.

A patrol vessel armed with a 30 mm gun is sufficient to cover constabulary and similar, non-combat roles. However, it would be completely insufficient for operations through/in SLOC's which are threatened or contested by hostile aerial, surface, land-based or subsurface threats.

Also I am not certain about the statement that Japan has the same crewing issues as NZ. The JMSDF itself has about 51k personnel and is one of the largest navies in the world, operating over 50 surface warships and 24 subs and something like 40+ minor warships or patrol vessels.

 

[Catalina]

NZ typically elects Government for 2-terms so . . . we need to really get serious on frigate replacements Labour will be governing and Winston Peters will no longer be around and the question needs to be asked if defence will be a priority?

This is a very scary thought - in another 4 years the maritime protection and progress of the Realm of NZ may be in the hands of a Labour/Greens/Maori government.

Unsettling as well to consider that NZ Defence policies and procurements swing so wildly, and regularly based upon political whims...

 

[Gibbo]

This is a very scary thought - in another 4 years the maritime protection and progress of the Realm of NZ may be in the hands of a Labour/Greens/Maori government.

Unsettling as well to consider that NZ Defence policies and procurements swing so wildly, and regularly based upon political whims...

Pity Andrew Little no longer has a shot at DefMin going by the way he painted defence in opposition...he was really talking it up more than NACT currently are. Mind you always easy in opposition...Greens & TPM scare me shitless.

 

[CJohn]

After a 90 year absence two Japanese warships have arrived in Wellington for a three-day ceremonial visit, helicopter destroyer JS Ise and destroyer JS.Suzunami.
I would consider this somewhat amazing timing in light of the recent SEA 3000 decision ! Let's hope evolved Mogami is on the menu.

 

[Challenger]

After a 90 year absence two Japanese warships have arrived in Wellington for a three-day ceremonial visit, helicopter destroyer JS Ise and destroyer JS.Suzunami.
I would consider this somewhat amazing timing in light of the recent SEA 3000 decision ! Let's hope evolved Mogami is on the menu.

I actually thought what a missed opportunity to not send down a Mogami!

IIRC Luxon actually went on a Mogami (JS Kumano) when he was in Japan last year.

If the decision is to replace the Frigates with Combat ships (and that’s how I read the DCP), interoperability with the ADF is a key priority, and we have signalled to replace the Naval Helicopters with no small fortune (which again implies a fleet for them to operate from). What is Judith waiting for?

 

[Rob c]

If the decision is to replace the Frigates with Combat ships (and that’s how I read the DCP), interoperability with the ADF is a key priority, and we have signalled to replace the Naval Helicopters with no small fortune (which again implies a fleet for them to operate from). What is Judith waiting for?

National (Judith) is waiting or a labour government so that they can blame them for excessive government expenditure like they did for the P8's and C130's which sat in the last National governments books for ever waiting a decision, To spend money on anything that is not going to win an election is just not done.

 

[Hawkeye69]

New Zealand’s economy is not in good shape, it’s struggling to ignite, cost of living still very much not under control, inflation is rocky still and unemployment is increasing. The country has a super aging population so we are getting in next few years to a point where for each retire will be supported by one worker, back in the 70’s and 80’s it was a ratio of 7 workers per retire. With a super aging population you get increased health system pressures and health is already underfunded and has serious specialist and doctor shortages. We cannot open the door to immigration to fill skills shortages as we still have a huge housing crisis and we cannot mass build as the industry through the downturn as lost significant amount of workforce who have left NZ.
Defence spending is not a vote winner and 2026 is election year so don’t expect anything more than what has already been allowed for.

NZ needs a higher tax take, capital gains, wealth tax, inheritance tax, higher personal tax, and the retirement age needs to be increased to 67 at a minimum with gradual increase to 70 over a 10 year period, new roads need to be tolled.

We need to secure our future, get back to a world class health and education systems, have secure and affordable housing for everyone, and we need secure energy which needs to be a combination of renewables, geo thermal and more hydro and we need a defence force that is small yet modern but able to respond to humanitarian and natural disasters and patrol our part of the world.

As a country we cannot keep borrowing like there’s no tomorrow, we need to increase tax revenue and live within our means.