Indonesian Aero News

[downunderblue]

It's a similar story elsewhere, and a very sad one at that.

It's very hard to take when you're talking about the protection of one's community, but what can you precisely do to change it. It is what it is, until the system changes- often generationally- potentially with the emergence of a stronger middle class. Even in success stories like ROK, it still rears it's ugly head from time to time. As I said, it's very human and put simply arises out of the need for survival which gets supplanted by plain greed. For societies which have the collective at the very centre of society (family), it is all about the individual ripping off the collective.

Again it saddens me and my friends I know who live through it every day.

Back on topic, if you do get the F-15EX's, you will at least be getting a decent piece of kit with Boeing seemingly v keen to do a deal. The Sukhoi's seem to be more hassle than they're worth and I heard Vietnam were looking at a deal to obtain F-16's due to their issues with theirs.

 

[Ananda]

you do get the F-15EX's, you will at least be getting a decent piece of kit with Boeing seemingly v keen to do a deal

Question will be if the budget enough to maintain the armaments and support needed by F-15EX/IDN. That's why personally I prefer more Rafale or F-16V.

Sukhoi's seem to be more hassle than they're worth and I heard Vietnam were looking at a deal to obtain F-16's due to their issues with theirs.

I'm not entirely agree on that. It is Ukranian source that claim the situation and Vietnam already build sufficient support system for Flankers. They are much more prepared to operate Flankers then Indonesia (as example). F-16 from Vietnam media or their forums seems more aim as Su-22 replacement.

AF like India, Vietnam, Algiers for examples are much more prepare to operate Flankers then say Indonesia or Malaysia. Situation will be different in my opinion for Vietnam to operate F-16.

 

[Ananda]

TNI AU-GMF Bahas Pemeliharaan Boeing B-737-200 untuk Perkuat Kesiapan Alutsista TNI AU - Indonesiadefense.com | Informasi Berita Terkini dan Terbaru Hari Ini Hankam Dan TNI %

TNI Angkatan Udara (TNI AU), melalui Komando Pemeliharaan Materiel TNI Angkatan Udara (Koharmatau), menggelar rapat koordinasi dengan PT

indonesiadefense.com

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Photo from Planespotters.net

From the outside, this is just usual MRO contract agreement for one of three TNI-AU 737 Maritime Surveillance. However in the scope of those 737 MSA are being talk to be replace by new MPA, this raise question whether there will be priority for new MPA.

TNI-AU off course want to replace it with P-8 as moving on from legacy 737 to new generation 737. However seems it is less likely to be afforded, and the thinking then move to replace them with Bombardier base P-6. Now seems it is also raise question, especially when TNI-AU now seems need to continue maintain this 737 Surveiler.

This is what being worried by Indonesian enthusiasts including myself. The talk of Rafale then F-15IDN always raise question what will be give as consequences. TNI-AU and MinDef procurement policy still until now being influenced more on 'political ego' building then balance capabilities building.

 

[koxinga]

Any considerations on the Embraer Lineage based Sea Sultan, being built for Pakistan?

 

[Ananda]

The talk so far more to PAL Aero P-6. Considering some disappointment with Embrear spare parts and after sales support on Super Tucano (at least what online media talk), don't think Embrear on good consideration by TNI-AU at this moment.

 

[Ananda]

Sri Mulyani Beberkan Daftar Barang Impor dari AS yang akan Ditambah

Sri Mulyani mengungkapkan sejumlah barang impor dari Amerika Serikat yang akan makin banyak diserap oleh Indonesia.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

Sri Mulyani as minister of finance talk three goods that will be priorities to balance the trade with US Trump. This is part of the negotiations:

1. Agricultural products like meat and soya beans,
2. Hydrocarbons in term of Oil and Gas,
3. Aviation product, and Boeing being mentioned as priority.

This is already been speculate in the market,
but for #3 it is not clear if it will be Civilian Airliners or Military Aviation or both. However couple days ago one of economics minister already told that recent Boeing airliners that being canceled by Chinese Airlines can be in the table to negotiate.

Still as most civilians airliners being procure through leasing, I do suspect some military aviation will be included as it is direct purchase financing. Seems this is shown recent Boeing confidence for F-15IDN.

Well there're goes AEW&C and MPA plan. No way the budget this term can afford all if F-15IDN already on the table.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Sri Mulyani Beberkan Daftar Barang Impor dari AS yang akan Ditambah

Sri Mulyani mengungkapkan sejumlah barang impor dari Amerika Serikat yang akan makin banyak diserap oleh Indonesia.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

Sri Mulyani as minister of finance talk three goods that will be priorities to balance the trade with US Trump. This is part of the negotiations:

1. Agricultural products like meat and soya beans,
2. Hydrocarbons in term of Oil and Gas,
3. Aviation product, and Boeing being mentioned as priority.

This is already been speculate in the market,
but for #3 it is not clear if it will be Civilian Airliners or Military Aviation or both. However couple days ago one of economics minister already told that recent Boeing airliners that being canceled by Chinese Airlines can be in the table to negotiate.

Still as most civilians airliners being procure through leasing, I do suspect some military aviation will be included as it is direct purchase financing. Seems this is shown recent Boeing confidence for F-15IDN.

Well there're goes AEW&C and MPA plan. No way the budget this term can afford all if F-15IDN already on the table.

I just don't understand why they don't select the 737 AEW&C and P8.....
1. Import from the US
2. Boeing
3. Something we really need.

 

[Ananda]

just don't understand why they don't select the 737 AEW&C and P8.....

Because it is not F-15IDN, because it is not 'macho' enough, because seems the believe for having advanced fighter more important then having ISTAR and Airborne Control. Advanced fighters has to come first, the rest can follow.

Seems that's the logic that prevail on MinDef thinking. As for me, what do I know, just an amateur enthusiasts in here .

The talk that circulate the overall package for that 24 F-15 IDN reach USD 8bio+, and both Dasault and LM being rumours offer up to 42-48 Rafale or F-16V for that amount. This as TNI-AU already build infrastructure to support the type.

Why has to be F-15IDN ? Well because it is F-15IDN. Just like saying you can do offroad job with Mitsubishi Pajero, but heck I want to do it with Range Rover.

 

[x100 XKR]

Because it is not F-15IDN, because it is not 'macho' enough, because seems the believe for having advanced fighter more important then having ISTAR and Airborne Control. Advanced fighters has to come first, the rest can follow.

Seems that's the logic that prevail on MinDef thinking. As for me, what do I know, just an amateur enthusiasts in here .

The talk that circulate the overall package for that 24 F-15 IDN reach USD 8bio+, and both Dasault and LM being rumours offer up to 42-48 Rafale or F-16V for that amount. This as TNI-AU already build infrastructure to support the type.

Why has to be F-15IDN ? Well because it is F-15IDN. Just like saying you can do offroad job with Mitsubishi Pajero, but heck I want to do it with Range Rover.

Classic Indo political-baggage-heavy procurement ....

But man, I am pining for the days of seeing a flight of 4 F-15IDN flying over South China Sea with 20 AMRAAM each ..... That would be a sight!

It's like:
Crew chief: How many AMRAAM to load today sir?
Pilot: Yes!

 

[Ananda]

Photo of Indonesia S-58T Twin Pack in operation. According to info, this photo taken in 1998 during political turmoil that lead to Soeharto downfall.

I put in here because there's talks now on Helicopters replacement. This helicopters actually procure through US Grant as replacement for Soviet Mi-4. They're not (as some believe) being replaced by SA-330 Puma or AS-332 Super Puma. Twin Pack actually still operating alongside Puma family.

They're only recently being replaced by H225M and the question now being talk is whose going to be replacement for SA-330 that sometime ago taken out from active operational rooster in TNI-AU.

KSAU Hentikan Operasional Helikopter TNI AU: Terima Kasih SA-330 Puma, Sang Penguasa Rimba - Mylesat

MYLESAT – Suasana haru bercampur bangga mengiringi penghentian operasional helikopter SA-330 Puma dari Skadron Udara 8, Lanud Atang Sendjaja oleh KSAU Marsekal TNI Fadjar Prasetyo pada Jumat (29/12/2023). “Terima kasih SA-330 Puma,” ungkap Marsekal Fadjar singkat. Memang tiada kata yang layak...

mylesat.com

Rumours circulating that further order Airbus H225M that supposedly going to replace SA-330, now has strong challenge from AW. However the expectation that AW-101 that going to be choose, now being rumours going to be smaller AW-189. The rumours mostly come from Frenchie Salesman, this remain to be seen.

However if AW being choose (whether AW-101 or AW-189),it is really break through for AW in penetrate market that dominate for decades by Airbus Military.

 

[Ananda]

Last week both Defense Minister Sjafrie and President Prabowo meet with Turkiye Secretary of Defense Industry Haluk Gorgun. Now there're talks that Half Billion USD already agree for TAI work with DI to upgrade 23 TNI-AU F-16 C/D using Turkey Ozgur standard.



TAI so far seems sure they can get US approval to conduct Ozgur upgrade to TNI-AU F-16, as just like they do to Turkey own F-16 C/D. It will mostly used Aselsan avionics and sensors.

Heard from finance guys, that if US doesn't want to give clearence to TAI, then those F-16 will be withdrawn gradually and the budget will be use as down payment for J-10C.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia’s bet on French Rafale jets under scrutiny after India-Pakistan clash

US$8.1 billion deal for 42 Rafale jets triggers alarm, but Pakistan’s claims may offer grounds for ‘evaluation’ of their use in Indonesia’s defence strategy.

www.scmp.com

This article in SCMP a week ago somehow being circulated by several media and somehow got enough traction to be consider as real deal. Thus the Frenchie Salesman agency (Semar Sentinel) circulate their zoom seminar with MinDef official.

Two of slides being circulate seems being shown to disrepute the speculation Indonesia having second thought on Rafale. Put the slides because it is not from Frenchies Salesman, but from MinDef official.





Well basically Frenchie salesman try to shown that projects with French still going strong. This as other sides sales team (Turkiye Sales, and Chinese Sales) seems increase their lobby effort.

Either way seems the 1st batch of 3 Rafale schedulle to come early next year. While the 4th contract on Rafale deals from my understanding for armament packages.

 

[SABRE]

Indonesia’s bet on French Rafale jets under scrutiny after India-Pakistan clash

US$8.1 billion deal for 42 Rafale jets triggers alarm, but Pakistan’s claims may offer grounds for ‘evaluation’ of their use in Indonesia’s defence strategy.

www.scmp.com

This article in SCMP a week ago somehow being circulated by several media and somehow got enough traction to be consider as real deal. Thus the Frenchie Salesman agency (Semar Sentinel) circulate their zoom seminar with MinDef official.

Two of slides being circulate seems being shown to disrepute the speculation Indonesia having second thought on Rafale. Put the slides because it is not from Frenchies Salesman, but from MinDef official.

View attachment 52899

View attachment 52900

Well basically Frenchie salesman try to shown that projects with French still going strong. This as other sides sales team (Turkiye Sales, and Chinese Sales) seems increase their lobby effort.

Either way seems the 1st batch of 3 Rafale schedulle to come early next year. While the 4th contract on Rafale deals from my understanding for armament packages.

IMO, despite what went down between PAF & IAF, Rafale is still an excellent aircraft. This is a good purchase by Indonesia, which I think is unlikely to face China or an adversary with highly skilled and qualitative air force.

The only issue would be the French ripping off financially, which their habit.

 

[x100 XKR]

IMO, despite what went down between PAF & IAF, Rafale is still an excellent aircraft. This is a good purchase by Indonesia, which I think is unlikely to face China or an adversary with highly skilled and qualitative air force.

The only issue would be the French ripping off financially, which their habit.

+1 - what he said about good aircraft. Not sure on the comment about China - perhaps not, but if PRC ever decided to cross their TW strait Rubicon, standing pat would be quite a juggle IMO.

Lots of claims on this latest dust-ups, from both sides. My personal opinion, the Indian side on the opening strikes seemed to be too confident, or too lax in their operational execution.

Surprised to not seeing any Meteor or AASM/Hammer mentioned in the package.

 

[Ananda]

Surprised to not seeing any Meteor or AASM/Hammer mentioned in the package.

Meteor according to info part of 4th phase of the contract. There are no officials details on 4th phase except the above slides. 1st to 3rd phase is for financing the platforms (thus the planes), while 4th phase for supporting items including the armaments. That's being circulate by the Frenchies Salesman.

The only issue would be the French ripping off financially, which their habit.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/macron-pitch-france-reliable-alternative-asia-tour-amid-us-china-rivalry-2025-05-22/

Frenchie items are expensive relatively, is no doubt about this. However Prabowo manage to convince Jokowi that Frenchie has less political attachmeht and Geopoliticaly more neutral consequences against US vs China rivalry. Now he's the president, he will continue the path with Frenchie.

Indonesian defense officials remember well how Frenchie that come back first to support TNI assets after East Timor crisis. The prices of Frenchie stuff seems (at least in paper) want to be mitigate with Frenchie willingness to help Indonesia MIC on other projects.

Frenchie is not the only one that getting traction, but also Turkiye and Italian, at the cost of ROK, UK, Germany, which usually bigger players in Indonesian defense. US and China stuff will still need to be acquired for political reasons, and Russian will be big question mark.

In the politics more matter in Indonesia defense procurement, as this thread already shown.

 

[Ananda]

Indonésie : Client du Rafale, l'Indonésie se tourne vers la Chine pour acquérir d'autres avions de chasse

Selon nos informations, l'armée de l'air indonésienne a donné son accord de principe pour acheter 42 avions de chasse J-10 à la Chine. Si le contrat devenait ferme et définitif, ils voleraient aux

www.intelligenceonline.fr

42 seems the magic number. 42 Rafale now negotiating for 42 J-10C. 24 F-15ID still also in negotiation. However if 42 now become the magic number, why don't also take 42 F-16V.

42 Rafale, 42 J-10C, 42 F-16V or 24 F-15ID. Because, why not. If India only have Rafale and Pakistan only have J-10C, why don't emulate Egypt and have both in inventory. Because, why not.

Meteor, PL-15 and AIM-120, because again why not.

Add: Some rumours talk the budget allocation for that J-10C, are coming from allocation that supposedly goes to KF-21 procurement.

 

[koxinga]

Well the French suggest something else. More Rafales, Caesars, Scorpenes? Let's see soon.

L'Indonésie pourrait s'offrir 12 Rafale supplémentaires

Exclusif. Lors de la visite d’État en Indonésie, l'Indonésie pourrait annoncer une commande d'une douzaine de Rafale supplémentaires ainsi que de nouveaux canons Caesar. Jakarta pourrait annoncer la mise en vigueur du contrat portant sur l'achat de deux sous-marins Scorpène.

www.latribune.fr

 

[Ananda]

Rumor Beli Jet Tempur China, KSAU: Kami Menunggu Kebijakan Pemerintah

KSAU menegaskan, TNI AU hanya menunggu kebijakan pemerintah soal rencana pembelian 42 unit jet tempur asal China

nasional.kompas.com

Air Force/TNI-AU chief give deflecting comment to media on the rumours of Chinese J-10. Basically he says that TNI-AU only receive and use whatever armament systems that being provided to them by MinDef.

Off course it is half truth, as the Armed Forces services due give 'preferences' studies on what systems they preference. Yes it is political decision in Administrations/MinDef that have more final says, and MoF agreement on Financing. Still when services chief say things like this in media, track records before usually means there're already serious process toward that particular systems within Administrations.

Well northing certain until first payment being made, and this means some geopolitics and geotrading considerations being bargain on.

 

[Ananda]

the French suggest something else. More Rafales, Caesars, Scorpenes? Let's see soon.

It is speculate going to be deal during Macron visit today. Macron and Prabowo will visit Borobudur, so perhaps during that time. Additional Rafale is already speculate before. But it also means some other will take the costs.

 

[x100 XKR]

TNI-AU fleet strategy.