Whatever Yarra is doing she was still at it when I looked out late yesterday and at first light this morning. It is a very thorough job!
Tas
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
- Thread starter OPSSG
- Start date
Tas
Could she be doing a training exercise? It could be just as simple as that.
Gascoyne spent a couple of days running up & down Cockburn Sound quite slowly a few weeks ago when she was over here in WA.
protoplasm
Active Member
Gascoyne was in at the wharf at Port Adelaide on Saturday afternoon. Just wondering if there is a quiet bit of effort at the moment to map our major port entrances…
Good point. Gives a base line to work from so that in the future you know what artefacts preexist and what artefacts are new and require investigation. It also gives uptodate highly accurate bathymetric data for each location, which is highly valuable as well.
I see that Thales has funding for the new explosive/rocket fuel mixer. This mixer will allow much larger items to be produced.
www.thalesgroup.com
I would imagine this would allow things like SM sized missiles to be made locally, at least in part.
Thales invests $6 million to rapidly accelerate sovereign Guided Weapons manufacturing capability
Thales Australia has announced a $6million investment in state-of-the-art advanced manufacturing equipment at the Commonwealth owned Mulwala facility in regional New South Wales [1], to rapidly accelerate sovereign guided weapons manufacturing capability.
I would imagine this would allow things like SM sized missiles to be made locally, at least in part.
Hunter class design has been transferred locally. I guess from this point onwards each class will evolve fairly seperately.
www.aumanufacturing.com.au
www.defenceconnect.com.au
Link updated
Digital ship design transferred to Adelaide - Australian Manufacturing Forum
More than two million digital artefacts and 90,000 documents – the basis for the design of Australia’s Hunter class frigates – are being transferred from the UK’s Type 26 frigate program in Scotland to Adelaide’s Osborne Naval Shipyard. The new all-digital shipyard is advancing the prototype...
www.aumanufacturing.com.au
BAE transfers warship design data to Australia
BAE is in the process of transferring two million digital artefacts and 90,000 documents about the UK’s Type 26 frigate to their Australian offering to support the construction of the Hunter Class f
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It has, but it appears that you've linked the wrong article, unless the Thales explosive plant is part of the Hunter designHunter class design has been transferred locally. I guess from this point onwards each class will evolve fairly seperately.
Thales invests $6 million to rapidly accelerate sovereign Guided Weapons manufacturing capability
Thales Australia has announced a $6million investment in state-of-the-art advanced manufacturing equipment at the Commonwealth owned Mulwala facility in regional New South Wales [1], to rapidly accelerate sovereign guided weapons manufacturing capability.
oldsig
Haha. no. Links updates. I presume that the design and layout is majority fixed, and that future design modifications are more about smaller adjustments for localisations with systems and local weapons and configurations.
I thought that part of the government resilience plan was for the likes of SM-2 to be licence built in Australia.I see that Thales has funding for the new explosive/rocket fuel mixer. This mixer will allow much larger items to be produced.
Thales invests $6 million to rapidly accelerate sovereign Guided Weapons manufacturing capability
Thales Australia has announced a $6million investment in state-of-the-art advanced manufacturing equipment at the Commonwealth owned Mulwala facility in regional New South Wales [1], to rapidly accelerate sovereign guided weapons manufacturing capability.
I would imagine this would allow things like SM sized missiles to be made locally, at least in part.
Git_Kraken
Active Member
Agreed. The closer to production the less likely design changes outside of each project will be introduced into the process.Hunter class design has been transferred locally. I guess from this point onwards each class will evolve fairly seperately.
Digital ship design transferred to Adelaide - Australian Manufacturing Forum
More than two million digital artefacts and 90,000 documents – the basis for the design of Australia’s Hunter class frigates – are being transferred from the UK’s Type 26 frigate program in Scotland to Adelaide’s Osborne Naval Shipyard. The new all-digital shipyard is advancing the prototype...Link updatedBAE transfers warship design data to Australia
BAE is in the process of transferring two million digital artefacts and 90,000 documents about the UK’s Type 26 frigate to their Australian offering to support the construction of the Hunter Class f
The digital design information is required to start the development of the manufacturing software/plans for cutting, tooling, jigs etc... This might be more of a gateway for the production side than the design side. Assuming this is true it's probably a signal that the initial design has been accepted. I still expect that information sharing will continue between projects however.
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I found this report to the U.S congress detailing the history and present plans for the construction of the submarine programs,I couldn't do justice to a summary of this lengthy report
,I have added this here because of the choices that may be made for the future choice of the Australian nuclear submarine program ,I note that in this report that the Biden administration cut back the Trumps document of production of submarines of 72 to 78 to 66 to 72 , the U.S also needs to hire and train some 18,000 workers for the continuation of build programs.
,I have added this here because of the choices that may be made for the future choice of the Australian nuclear submarine program ,I note that in this report that the Biden administration cut back the Trumps document of production of submarines of 72 to 78 to 66 to 72 , the U.S also needs to hire and train some 18,000 workers for the continuation of build programs.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The industrial base issue really highlights how difficult supporting sub production for Australia is going to be for US yards, especially with Columbia coming up. This mainly applies to the reactor side but there could be other support needs required by an Australian yard. Same applies to the UK. From a US perspective, I wonder if diverting some resources from the Ford class build towards the SSN/BN programs is warranted?
That is the plan although I am not sure they have mentioned specific models publically.
The SM series is a dual thrust with two layers of different propellants, I presume the existing mixer has enough volume to create the high boost phase. If this is the case then Australia would likely be working quickly towards being able to manufacture rocket bodies with solid fuel motors for SM-2, SM-6 and perhaps even parts for SM-3.
As Australia is intending to become a larger user of SM missiles, being able to manufacture, upgrade and remanufacture them will be a useful addition. Also Australia is one of the few countries that can do the complete from the ground to (hopefully, eventually) the final product manufacturing. However, that is a long path to walk.
Its certainly a mountain. Many look at the US program and see such tremendous capability that they assume it would be easy for Australia to take production slots of heavily rely on US capability. Unfortunately that isn't always the case.
They are trying to grow and improve their own capacity. The US has their own issues in terms of maintenance and production. Many of which are mentioned in that document.
They have been doing the opposite until recently. Diverting SSN new build capacity to support carrier programs and SSN refurbishment. The Ford program isn't without its own challenges. Not all resources are reversible. SSN/B welders and fitters may well be able to do work on surface ships, but surface ship capability may be completely incompatible with submarine work. Some F-22 pilots could quickly retrain to fly 172 cessnas, not all cessna pilots can retrain to fly F-22's. US trade schools will already be loaded trying to solve their own problems.
I couldn't, help but think that if the U.S is needing an extra 18000 workers needed for the submarine build program would Australian workers be considered for training over there prior to building here , and if the decision by the Biden administration in overall numbers for the submarine classes are to be reduced from the Trump administration a very similar number to what the Australian government wants for the R.A.N going from 72 to 78 down to 66 to 72 a difference of 6 perhaps there is scope that some could be built in an increased production run if funds come from Australia
Rock the kasbah
Active Member
Will the hunters be Australian made from the keel up?
Eg. I know they are getting RR engines but are we licensed to build them or are they arriving in a great big box and we end up with the usual parts lack of issues?
The real issue at the moment for the Americans are the shortage of qualified shipworkers right across the trades and the industry. It has been declining for years as older workers retire and are not being replaced by apprentices entering the trades and / or new workers joining. The next point is the capacity of the sub yards to build subs, and that to is a problem. The final point which we keep repeating is that no decision has been released on what the future RAN SSN will be and until we know that or until we know what the government is looking towards, anything is just pie in the sky.
You should read @OPSSG post in green ink near the beginning of this thread just to ensure there's no misunderstanding.
The ships will be Australian made from the keel up, just like the ANZAC FFH, Collins Class SSK, and Hobart Class DDG were.
The US has a massive looming shortage of qualified trades and STEM graduates for areas like defence.
Remembering the peace dividend in the 90's pretty much saw the industry massively shrink, with no new blood coming in and mass layoffs. This continued into the 00's. Also in the this time the new blood that came in, was often deflected out again (last in first out) and capable people finding and moving on out of their careers. The backbone is also retiring, not just on the front line, but in trade schools etc.
There are huge demographic problems. Across multiple countries.
Also you might have an adhesion problem. Send a whole bunch of young trades people, with Australian accents, to the US for a few years, get them trained up in an in demand skill. They might want to stay over there. (fox in hen house problem).
Same problem exists locally. Australia however has been pretty lucky, the mining and energy boom has meant we actually kept a lot of talent in the pool. CIVMEC for example hopes to pivot their workforce across into defence to keep the core alive as that industry slows. ASC has tried to keep its workforce adapted to surface ships and refurbs, as its beennearly over 20 years since the last Collins boat was launched.
Ultimately short cuts often aren't that short or easy.
Remembering the peace dividend in the 90's pretty much saw the industry massively shrink, with no new blood coming in and mass layoffs. This continued into the 00's. Also in the this time the new blood that came in, was often deflected out again (last in first out) and capable people finding and moving on out of their careers. The backbone is also retiring, not just on the front line, but in trade schools etc.
There are huge demographic problems. Across multiple countries.
Also you might have an adhesion problem. Send a whole bunch of young trades people, with Australian accents, to the US for a few years, get them trained up in an in demand skill. They might want to stay over there. (fox in hen house problem).
Same problem exists locally. Australia however has been pretty lucky, the mining and energy boom has meant we actually kept a lot of talent in the pool. CIVMEC for example hopes to pivot their workforce across into defence to keep the core alive as that industry slows. ASC has tried to keep its workforce adapted to surface ships and refurbs, as its been
Ultimately short cuts often aren't that short or easy.
Noting @ngatimozart has touched on the fact the SSN to be built is not known I would also point out that the utterances from three heads of state and the official information on the web site ....
Nuclear-Powered Submarine Task Force | About | Defence | Department of Defence
States that ...
The first major initiative under AUKUS is Australia’s acquisition of at least eight nuclear-powered submarines. The Australian Government intends to build these submarines in Adelaide.
Noting this there is no point with postulating that Australia will be hooking into the USN production. This point has been made ad nauseam by Mods. Unless there is a change of position by the government suggest this be dropped.