Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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hauritz

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Will it be fitted out in Spain or are they bringing it to Australia for final fit out?

I note the British installed a lot of their own gear on their new tankers back in England.
 

oldsig127

The Bunker Group
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Will it be fitted out in Spain or are they bringing it to Australia for final fit out?

I note the British installed a lot of their own gear on their new tankers back in England.
In Spain. The British added weapons and comms gear in their own yards. Not sure whether we do that with the RAN ships, but Navantia in any case is well familiar with pretty much all of it through the AWD project. Not really relevant though. Most ships are launched far from their completed state and a lot of installation of stuff like cabling is done alongside a fitting out wharf. That needs to be completed and the lengthy process of commissioning all the systems done before she goes anywhere

oldsig
 

alexsa

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In Spain. The British added weapons and comms gear in their own yards. Not sure whether we do that with the RAN ships, but Navantia in any case is well familiar with pretty much all of it through the AWD project. Not really relevant though. Most ships are launched far from their completed state and a lot of installation of stuff like cabling is done alongside a fitting out wharf. That needs to be completed and the lengthy process of commissioning all the systems done before she goes anywhere

oldsig
There will be a fit out in Australia of systems. From memory the vessel is due to head home toward the end of 2019 .... I think. Will need to check.
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Call it whatever you like, you very well know it is about the intended role. Call a dog a cat, and it is still a dog, so unless the Government changes its position you can dream the LHD's to be whatever floats your boat. This circular argument has been going on this forum for over 10 years, we have heard it all, discussed it all and proposed it all dozens of times.

It is an LHD and that is its role as per the direction of the Government, current ORBAT and Conops
Agree that this is the ships current role and there's a chance its all it will do.
However the Canberra class will have many,many years of service, and as we know governments and defence needs change with circumstance.
Therefore it would be folly to at least not acknowledge what other nations are doing regarding this capability.
Will we get the F35B post the delivery of the last F35 A.
I'd say most likely.
Super Hornets look good in 2018 but an all 5th Gen fleet looks more appealing in 2028. Particularly when you can take it to sea.
You can bet the governments direction in a decades time will be a lot different to that of today.
It will need an Air Force that can match that expectation and a maritime Army that can get its feet wet.

Canbera class developement - Crawl,Walk, Run ,Fly.

Regards S
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Agree that this is the ships current role and there's a chance its all it will do.
However the Canberra class will have many,many years of service, and as we know governments and defence needs change with circumstance.
Therefore it would be folly to at least not acknowledge what other nations are doing regarding this capability.
Will we get the F35B post the delivery of the last F35 A.
I'd say most likely.
Super Hornets look good in 2018 but an all 5th Gen fleet looks more appealing in 2028. Particularly when you can take it to sea.
You can bet the governments direction in a decades time will be a lot different to that of today.
It will need an Air Force that can match that expectation and a maritime Army that can get its feet wet.

Canbera class developement - Crawl,Walk, Run ,Fly.

Regards S

I agree that the LHD wont see a permanent rotation of F35B with a red Skippy, at the end of the day we have 2 vessels we be getting good availability from them now but as the age maintenance issues will increase and very rarely will we see to operating at the same time , one will be on call for HADR support during the wet season, if we need a ASW carrier then buy one we are not in the position of the USMC, the UK will be in the same sort of position putting all their eggs in one basket
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Agree that this is the ships current role and there's a chance its all it will do.
However the Canberra class will have many,many years of service, and as we know governments and defence needs change with circumstance.
Therefore it would be folly to at least not acknowledge what other nations are doing regarding this capability.
Will we get the F35B post the delivery of the last F35 A.
I'd say most likely.
Super Hornets look good in 2018 but an all 5th Gen fleet looks more appealing in 2028. Particularly when you can take it to sea.
You can bet the governments direction in a decades time will be a lot different to that of today.
It will need an Air Force that can match that expectation and a maritime Army that can get its feet wet.

Canbera class developement - Crawl,Walk, Run ,Fly.

Regards S
I also believe we will eventually get the B's, I just firmly believe, in my opinion, that it will not come at the expense of the Canberra's.

If we move down that route, it would, and should be a dedicated platform fully fit for purpose, possibly with the Canberra's as back up/gap fill during maintenance periods etc.

AIR 600 2C could be a possibility for 28, and IIRC, there is another option post 2C for potentially another 50 airframes I think ?

I guess what I am trying to say is this "discussion" has already been going on for a decade, and most likely will be another decade before we get any closer, what is happening around our region, Japan, South Korea, maybe Singapore etc looking and getting B's, eventually we will become part of the club

Cheers
 

ngatimozart

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Staff member
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hauritz

Well-Known Member


Do the Hobart class risk suffering of the same design mistakes?

Investigation of marine accident, collision outside the Sture Oil Terminal in Hjeltefjorden, Norway | aibn

Link added by Ngatimozart
The Hobart and Nansen class share the same lineage so I am sure that the RAN will be taking a great deal of interest in the final report. I was surprised to see that the ship was deliberately grounded only 10 minutes after the collision. Had they not been as close to shore as they were the ship would have likely sunk very quickly and could have quite possibly resulted in the loss of lives.
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
There are a number of changes in the DDGs which were designed to improve DC, and watertight integrity in particular. However, there is no doubt that the damage Helge Ingstad suffered, and its effects, will be studied with great interest.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
JCI has four functions IIRC - stated in their brochure - one of which is 'aviation centric'.
Correct Spaz for the JC, But as has been mentioned before, specifically GF, there are significant changes internally for the Canberra's that take that out of the mix.

And one of the bigger reasons why when suggested by Abbott, was knocked on the head as not viable with too much work and money to be spent to bring them up the the levels required, a cost IIRC that would come close to getting something like Cavour for instance.

Again it comes down for force structure, Orbat and Conops, not a simple swish of the pen to change, let alone the money, manning, and the obvious election coming up and instability with Aus politics. I think we are still a decade away from having a serious conversation, sadly

Cheers
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Correct Spaz for the JC, But as has been mentioned before, specifically GF, there are significant changes internally for the Canberra's that take that out of the mix.

And one of the bigger reasons why when suggested by Abbott, was knocked on the head as not viable with too much work and money to be spent to bring them up the the levels required, a cost IIRC that would come close to getting something like Cavour for instance.

Again it comes down for force structure, Orbat and Conops, not a simple swish of the pen to change, let alone the money, manning, and the obvious election coming up and instability with Aus politics. I think we are still a decade away from having a serious conversation, sadly

Cheers
Not sure if this is the correct thread, but regarding the similarities and /or differences between the Juan Carlos 1 and the Canberra class I'm perplexed.
I have read at one end they are exactly the same ship to the other end ; having such extensive structural differences to the point they are actually a different class of ship.
Confusing to be sure and not privy to concrete answers I can only speculate.

With my layman's Admiral hat, I suggest from my own research that they are all but identical, but for the internal Island structure having Individual Navy specific requirements in design and layout. Maybe some other minor differences but no deal breakers.
Again externally they appear the same across the Class.
I'm open to the fact I may be wrong and maybe this is getting in to the Hush hush security territory.
Either way I'm sure you could land a Harrier on the deck tomorrow and a F35B with some deck heat treating.
Simplistic answer for sure, as a true F35B capability will need some significant coin.
The question is actually how much coin in real terms.
To be honest, some of the figures to enable F35B flight operations look so ridiculously large as to suggest they are nothing more than fiscal scare tactics to avoid going down this path. We are not building a Nimitz, just adding some modest Fixed wing capacity.
That said, spending any money on any defence capability has to be justified in the big scheme of thing and at this stage the F35B is not the priority.

Maybe one for down the track

Regards S.
 

oldsig127

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
It looks a bit top heavy does'nt it. Is there much weight in that structure?
Largely hollow aluminium structure, and you have to remember that the heavy weight to the old rotating radar is removed.

On the other hand, maybe they never thought of that issue. Perhaps you should drop them a line? ;)

oldsig
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
It looks a bit top heavy does'nt it. Is there much weight in that structure?
A lot of modern warships are a lot bulkier looking than they actually are.

I know that in the case of the Zumwalt class for example that a lot of its deck housing is a combination of Balsawood and carbon fibre.
 
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