John Fedup
The Bunker Group
It is unlikely any mention of bidders failing to meet or needing to address mandatory requirements will be made public during the evaluation phase. Sometime in the 4th Q, at the earliest, a decision will be announced.
Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates
- Thread starter stephen weist
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Dave Dunlop
New Member
Matt00773:
There were originally 12 Companies that qualified to bid for the CSC contract. There are 5 Phases to this project and they are now close to the end of Phase 3 (Final Decision) and ready for Phase 4 (Construction). There were only 3 bidders who met all the initial requirements and submitted their RFP's by closing date: 30 Nov 2017. The Spanish AAW Christopher Columbus Class, the Dutch AAW De Zeven Provincien Class and the British LM/BAE Type 26 ASW Frigate. The Italian/French FREMM Frigate did not meet the RFP dates and were dropped from the final list of bidders by the Canadian government. The decision phase has already started and should be completed soon. The Canadian Government has gone back to each qualified bidder and asked for more clarity on what requirements Canada wants in the CSC and what each bidder is willing to give us....., or not. This process is almost complete and Canada will make a final decision on which bidder will win the contract for the 15 CSC's this Summer 2018.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Umm. No. They are currently in the Definition phase. This page outlines the overall process for Canadian defence procurement, including the different phases and what occurs in that phase. This is the SCS page, which shows what stage it is supposed to be at, albeit the page appears to not have been updated since December.
At some point in the current Definition phase, a selection/decision should be made so that work can proceed onto the next phase (Implementation). The Implementation project approval has a time frame of the early 2020's, alongside a construction contract award also in the early 2020's, with first delivery in the mid-2020's. That suggests that a decision regarding design selection will be made "soon" but that "soon" could still be some months away.
Dave Dunlop
New Member
Yes you art right on. But the decision will still be made this Summer, no matter how you say it. I'm betting on the BAE Type 26 Frigate. Cheers!
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Care to provide a source which can confirm the decision will be this summer? So far, the closest I have come to confirming your assertion is a Jane's from May 30 that "a decision is expected by the end of the summer", and a tweet dated May 31 that the decision has been delayed another three months due to issues with the new procurement process and "no CSC design to be chosen until end of summer".
From those two sources, it seems like a decision by or at the end of August or beginning of September might happen. OTOH I have not seen statements from the RCN or Canadian gov't on when they expect to make or announce a decision, which means the two I linked to are really relying upon rumour, unless there is a source which confirms their claims.
Looking at the similar SEA 5000 programme Australia is running, there is an expectation that a decision will be made/announced shortly in that project because the AusGov had stated that a decision would be made in 2nd Quarter 2018, which ends in about two weeks.
Yes, but the Definition phase has it's own process which is laid out in the link below. There was an announcement a couple of months ago that all the bids had failed to meet one/some of the requirements and that a new collaboration phase would look to address this. It seems the CSC programme is still stuck in the "cure" process...
Speaking notes for National Shipbuilding Strategy technical briefing on Canadian Surface Combatant request for proposal – National Shipbuilding Strategy – Sea – Defence Procurement – Buying and Selling – PSPC
Dave Dunlop
New Member
Exactly. I believe this Summer-2018, but no later than early Fall this year! I also believe that the Government is waiting for Australia to make their decision first before a Canadian winner is announced. Have A Great NAVY Day!!!
You have been asked to provide sources for you claims. If you don't comply with the requests, you will face sanctions from the Moderators.
Dave Dunlop
New Member
This just in.....All "cured" bids from all 3 companies are to be submitted no later than (NLT) July 21 2018 ("Ottawa Citizen-15 June 2018) with a final decision to be made by the government NLT Summer/Fall of 2018.
t68
Well-Known Member
no link?
Here's the link to the CSC programme update:
It's make or break time for Canadian Surface Combatant bidders
If any of the bids is considered non-compliant after 21 July they will be eliminated from the competition.
It's make or break time for Canadian Surface Combatant bidders
If any of the bids is considered non-compliant after 21 July they will be eliminated from the competition.
Dave Dunlop
New Member
Thanks Matt00773. Glad you were paying attention.
Handy little website that Ottawa Citizen. The number of F18s Canada will purchase from Australia goes up. Where does this align exactly with the future jet programme - F35 etc.?
Canada to buy more used Australian fighter jets – number goes from 18 to 25
Canada to buy more used Australian fighter jets – number goes from 18 to 25
Canada to build an atomic bomb? The article below is a bit of a nothing argument as it would be mostly a political position rather than a technical one. When you have the US blocking Canada from having nuclear submarines, a nuclear bomb would be impossible.
How quickly could Canada build an atomic bomb?
How quickly could Canada build an atomic bomb?
Dave Dunlop
New Member
Yes, I use David's column quite a bit, as he is very thorough and accurate. Don't know how the rise in used Australian F18's will align with our "future jet programme" (F35/Super Hornets etc......). I believe the Canadian government miss-calculated the number of "serviceable" CF 18 Jets from the beginning (somebody dropped the ball on this one), so now we have to pay a lot more to cover our commitments, not to mention the amount of money already spent to keep Canada in the F35 running. What a mess! Why not just buy "Off-The-Shelf" Super Hornets and be done with it!! My thought's anyway. Cheers!
Dave Dunlop
New Member
matt00773
Don't sell the Canadian Nuclear Submarine theory short. We could acquire the French Barracuda Class SSN very easily (if we went to 2% GDP on defence). My thoughts only. Right now, to acquire the Virginia or Astute Class SSN would be a non-starter, however with the right Canadian technology (and time), we could develop our own reactors for submarines. The Australians have said that some of their new Shortfin Barracuda Block 1A Class Subs may be Nuclear powered from France in the future.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
What the article did not get into, is what would happen if all three remaining bids are still non-compliant after 21 July. This is part of the reason why I am a bit leery of any claims or pronouncements made, particularly since I still have not come across a more definitive time frame put out by gov't that what I had already linked to. It is also why I, and others that have been on the forum for some time, tend to be skeptical when people make assertions about what or when something will happen, when even the gov't involved has not committed to doing so.
Actually the evaluation process is laid out in the link in post #1026. If we accept that the 21 July deadline is the end of the "cure" process, the next steps would be the following:
- Any bidder that is still deemed non-compliant with any of the identified Mandatory Compliance criteria after the Cure Period will be eliminated from the competition.
- If at least one bidder is compliant and has demonstrated conformance with all the other required criteria then those bidders’ scores will be considered final and the evaluation process will continue with Stage 2 score weighting using these scores. In this scenario any non-conforming bid will be set aside.
- However, if after the Cure Process none of the compliant bidders have demonstrated full conformance with all the required criteria then non-conformance adjustments will be made to each of the compliant bids’ corresponding technical risk scores and the evaluation process will continue with Stage 2 score weighting using these adjusted scores.
- The resultant Stage 2 scores of compliant bids will be weighted 75% Technical /25% Value Proposition (the highest Value Proposition weighting to date) and the top 2 bids (plus any that are very close) will move on to the next stage of evaluation.
- The other bids will be set aside.
- Those bids that have passed through will be scored for the remaining evaluation elements of Design Maturity, Software Capability and Financial.
- Each bid’s raw scores for Technical and Value Proposition from the earlier stage will be retained and reweighted.
- All the Stage 3 scores will be weighted and added together to get the bidder’s Total score. The final weightings will be Technical 42%, Value Proposition 15%, Design Maturity 19%, Software 1%, and Financial 23%.
- The bid with the highest total score will be the Preferred Bidder and we will enter into a period of due diligence where we will examine the details of their Combat System performance, IP rights proposals, etc.
First steel cut on the JSS
Minister Sajjan marks the start of steel cutting for the first Joint Support Ship - Canada.ca
Minister Sajjan marks the start of steel cutting for the first Joint Support Ship - Canada.ca
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
And, making the assumptions that both the 21 July deadline is correct and that all of the bidders are 'non-compliant' how long could/would/should it take the evaluators to create and apply non-conformance adjustments, and then come up with a weighted Stage 2 score? Given how little has been heard from gov't officially in terms of statements or press releases, and how much the process has already gone sideways (like the DND needing an extra CAN$54 mil. for the staff of 135 military and civilian assigned to the project) that I unfortunately believe ample opportunity remains for the programme to go further sideways.