F-35 Program - General Discussion

[MARKMILES77]

The one interesting line in this article:

Trump’s nomination of the “no nonsense” General James Mattis as Secretary of Defence means the days of playing games are over.

What are Mattis's views.
His opinion on the programme could be vital one way or the other.

Another issue is have a read of the comments.
The majority think it is a waste of money and would likely applaud any politician who scrapped Australia's involvement.
Needs to be countered with some positive PR and explanation of what the F 35 brings.
Avalon would be a good place to start!

 

[John Newman]

Another issue is have a read of the comments.
The majority think it is a waste of money and would likely applaud any politician who scrapped Australia's involvement.
Needs to be countered with some positive PR and explanation of what the F 35 brings.
Avalon would be a good place to start!

The APA zealots probably did a phone around to get all of their disciples to comment!!

Anyway..

But really, does the Government (or Defence) have to make a comment? I don't think so.

Both major political parties here support the acquisition, so there are no political points to score from each other, unlike in Canada for example where there isn't bipartisan support.

 

[gf0012-aust]

What are Mattis's views.
His opinion on the programme could be vital one way or the other.

Mattis is very pro re-org of the gator fleet and wants more presence to compress china - by association the potential doubling of fixed wing bearer footprint is something that comes out of the USMC rebuild

ie he's a supporter - all of the USMC stars are hi-tech advocates to leverage US advantages.

so outside of McCain who he has a testy relationship with, his ex mil front enders are advocates of using the USMC and USN to contain china. that force model looks at more JSF as part of the end state development

 

[hauritz]

WTF ... one of the world’s foremost air defence analytics groups — Air Power Australia — founded by Peter Goon and Carlo Kopp is now advising Trump!!!

Just checking my calendar ... it isn't April first yet .. is it?

Gottliebsen has clearly over indulged on xmas eggnog before writing this piece.

 

[colay1]

Some Mattiisms that capture the flavor of the man. In the mold of old "Blood and Guts".


7 Memorable Quotes From Gen. James 'Mad Dog' Mattis - ABC News



“Bloom where you are planted.”

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

“Marines don’t know how to spell the word defeat.”

“You are part of the world’s most feared and trusted force. Engage your brain before you engage your weapon.”

"It’s all the more important today that we hold to our precious legacy of ferocious, ethical combat performance."

"Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people.”

“But there was another word that I learned to prioritize as I evaluated units, and that word was affection."

 

[John Newman]

Gottliebsen mentioned in his article (garbage) that he had made a submission to the F-35 Senate inquiry (more garbage).

Here is the link to the submissions, his is no 34 on page 2.

Submissions – Parliament of Australia


Now please don't put you fist through you computer screen, ok??

 

[ngatimozart]

Gottliebsen mentioned in his article (garbage) that he had made a submission to the F-35 Senate inquiry (more garbage).

Here is the link to the submissions, his is no 34 on page 2.

Submissions – Parliament of Australia


Now please don't put you fist through you computer screen, ok??

There are idiots and there are idiots. This one belongs in the second category along with the Goon and Kopp idiot show.

 

[John Newman]

There are idiots and there are idiots. This one belongs in the second category along with the Goon and Kopp idiot show.

Mate, no disagreement from me on that point!!!


One para in Gottliebsen's article caught my attention:

"Among the people advising the Trump team are the Canadians who rejected the Joint Strike Fighter and one of the world’s foremost air defence analytics groups — Air Power Australia — founded by Peter Goon and Carlo Kopp."

So what does that actually mean in 'reality'? I'd like to actually see some detail on this advice given.

In reality, it probably goes something like this, APA probably sent an email to Trump's team, with all of their over the top submissions and a link to the APA website, they probably received an 'out of office' email reply that read:

"The Donald thanks you very much for your email (really, he does?), as you can imagine The Donald is very very busy as the moment preparing himself to become Prez of the good ol US of A. Anyway dear emailer, rest assured that The Donald will do his best to read and reply to each and every email, if you don't received a reply by, say around January 2021, just assume he has read it ok? Thanks again, and have a great Donald day!!!"

 

[gf0012-aust]

WTF ... one of the world’s foremost air defence analytics groups — Air Power Australia — founded by Peter Goon and Carlo Kopp is now advising Trump!!!

if you ever wanted a more glaring example of how immersed they are in self aggrandisement and delusion then there's 2016's comment of the year

a bloke who thinks he knows more about radar systems than DSTO scientists, another bloke who was a P3 filler and who's aviation company hasn't existed for years.... yep, they're the kind of people that Trump will make time for

there's one australian civilian who has the ear of the incoming administration on military issues - and he's connected to all the senior stars that have just been hired. and it isn't one of those two muppets

 

[ADMk2]

if you ever wanted a more glaring example of how immersed they are in self aggrandisement and delusion then there's 2016's comment of the year

a bloke who thinks he knows more about radar systems than DSTO scientists, another bloke who was a P3 filler and who's aviation company hasn't existed for years.... yep, they're the kind of people that Trump will make time for

there's one australian civilian who has the ear of the incoming administration on military issues - and he's connected to all the senior stars that have just been hired. and it isn't one of those two muppets

Of course they advise Trump...

Peter @horde Goon spams the crap out of the @therealdonaldtrump on twitter...

That seems to be what passes for 'quality' advice these days...

 

[gf0012-aust]

Of course they advise Trump...

Peter @horde Goon spams the crap out of the @therealdonaldtrump on twitter...

That seems to be what passes for 'quality' advice these days...

ahh, well in that case I might make myself an adviser as well - where's that dormant twitter account handle when you need it.

 

[John Newman]

there's one australian civilian who has the ear of the incoming administration on military issues - and he's connected to all the senior stars that have just been hired. and it isn't one of those two muppets

Now that's what you want to hear!

The APA zealots and their disciples can howl at the moon all they like, it won't matter one tiny little bit!

 

[the road runner]

APA with the rest of the anti JSF crowd will still be calling the JSF program a failure after 1000 JSF have been delivered. Well over 200 have been delivered with IOC being reached ....yes lets cancel the program now

So Israel will be using their JSF as recon assets as all those drones the IAF have are used for um... other stuff! So this means the JSF is a good recon asset APA? But yet the JSF is still a failure

 

[gf0012-aust]

there's a time in my life when I would have been indignant and written to Gottliebsen to point out possible flaws in his sources.

Now ICBF

 

[ADMk2]

there's a time in my life when I would have been indignant and written to Gottliebsen to point out possible flaws in his sources.

Now ICBF

Now that is a growth!

Once upon a time I would have addressed his points and responded to each... Now? Bah.

Nothing is going to happen significantly to F-35, IMHO.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Now that is a growth!

yep, my journey has stabilised, as well as inner peace.

the horde will end up with stomach ulcers and personal bile ruining a succession of future xmases...

 

[ngatimozart]

the horde will end up with stomach ulcers and personal bile ruining a succession of future xmases...

good that leaves more pavlova for the rest of us.

 

[Volkodav]

I must admit I've reached a similar point with the various devolutions of stupidity on news sites, comments, social media etc. I just don't have the will or the energy to do it anymore, nothing I have responded with in the past has made an iota of difference causing me to realise they will continue to believe what they be live, with or without me. Best just to wait for them to be proven wrong then let them delude themselves further that it is not their fault and they were at heart a doubter.

 

[John Newman]

I must admit I've reached a similar point with the various devolutions of stupidity on news sites, comments, social media etc. I just don't have the will or the energy to do it anymore, nothing I have responded with in the past has made an iota of difference causing me to realise they will continue to believe what they be live, with or without me. Best just to wait for them to be proven wrong then let them delude themselves further that it is not their fault and they were at heart a doubter.

V, the problem with zealots, disciples, true believers, whatever you want to call them, it just doesn't matter how politely you can put facts in front of them, it's not going to make one bit of difference.

Regardless of the subject, some people blindly follow, either yes or no, simple as that. It's a religion, believe or not!

Nothing wrong with having differing opinions (the world would be boring otherwise), but what I don't get, is how the 'anti' brigade are all so desperate to see the F-35 program fail, what is the benefit in that?

At worst if I was 'anti', I might say, "well this is wrong, it's bad, its ...., but gee, I hope it does succeed for all our sake!"

Again, I just don't get this attitude of "I want to see it fail", regardless of the cost or the outcome.

All very strange!!

 

[Volkodav]

V, the problem with zealots, disciples, true believers, whatever you want to call them, it just doesn't matter how politely you can put facts in front of them, it's not going to make one bit of difference.

Regardless of the subject, some people blindly follow, either yes or no, simple as that. It's a religion, believe or not!

Nothing wrong with having differing opinions (the world would be boring otherwise), but what I don't get, is how the 'anti' brigade are all so desperate to see the F-35 program fail, what is the benefit in that?

At worst if I was 'anti', I might say, "well this is wrong, it's bad, its ...., but gee, I hope it does succeed for all our sake!"

Again, I just don't get this attitude of "I want to see it fail", regardless of the cost or the outcome.

All very strange!!

As well as the anger and aggression involved as well, its like you insulted their wife or mother, or maybe hooked their child on drugs and got them into prostitution rather than just disagreeing with them on line. They say it was angry white men who elected trump and support Putin but it seems deeper than that, just look at the Philippines, Israel, the previous dipstick in Iran etc. Is there a global testosterone problem?