Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Alexsa has said most of what I was going to say. Cheers.

The MCR is usually also an important damage control centre. If there is no one there when things go wrong, that can't be an improvement. At least with a manned MCR there is a small team in the vicinity of the machinery spaces able to react quickly. If they are dispersed all over the ship - I dunno. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. That's putting an extreme amount of faith in a computer system / network to correctly monitor systems and take initial action.

Isn't one of the most basic military maxims "Fight like you train, and train like you fight" (which would seem to go back to at least Vegetius in 4th century AD Rome). Maybe we should just trade the frigates in for a cruise ship. :p: New RNZN motto: 'You bring the bullets, we'll bring the party!'

Expecting an enemy to give us ample warning of an attack so that we're 'ready' is a fantasy. With the rise in asymmetric threats (think USS Cole, plus the cruise missile attacks on Israeli, Egyptian & UAE vessels recently) it would foolish to not be prepared to take damage at any time or place these days.
Let's look at analogy. The Airbus A380 carries something like 500+ pax on board and cruises at 37,000 ft with four engines. If one engine fails it's no big issue because the aircraft can very safely fly on three. If two fail life gets quite interesting. The aircraft has a flight crew (excluding cabin crew) of two - a pilot and copilot. Guess what - no engineers standing watch and the engines are monitored remotely from the flight deck (and thousands of miles away by the manufacturer in real time). If the aircraft catches fire at 37,000 ft and a wing falls off, it is rather catastrophic for those 500+ bods on board - they have to ride it in having no choice.

On a RNZN warship if things turn to rubbish, a team of qualified personnel can be on the scene quickly to ascertain the problem and remedy or mitigate it as required. If perchance it really turns to rubbish and the ship cannot be saved then the crew can abandon ship, taking to liferafts. We trained for that and each time we went to sea, first day out we always had evolutions practising damage control etc. It's SOP. Hence I think your criticism of the RNZN is uninformed and uncalled for. In the old days it's have to be cannons at dawn preceded by rum :lol2
 

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
http://navy.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/navy-today/nt205.pdf

New Navy Today out on PDF. Special edition for the big 75th birthday bash, unsurprisingly. Page 30 on the future of the Navy has some new info.

The new tanker is confirmed as being able to carry up to 20 TEUs weighing 25 tonnes, meaning the eight rear-ward (sorry, don't know correct nautical term) can be double-stacked, but the forward 4 can't. Also said to be only vessel in fleet that can operate and maintain NH90.

Frigate upgrade now due to be finished late 2019

Also contains good short profiles of the visiting ships.
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Let's look at analogy. The Airbus A380 carries something like 500+ pax on board and cruises at 37,000 ft with four engines. If one engine fails it's no big issue because the aircraft can very safely fly on three. If two fail life gets quite interesting. The aircraft has a flight crew (excluding cabin crew) of two - a pilot and copilot. Guess what - no engineers standing watch and the engines are monitored remotely from the flight deck (and thousands of miles away by the manufacturer in real time). If the aircraft catches fire at 37,000 ft and a wing falls off, it is rather catastrophic for those 500+ bods on board - they have to ride it in having no choice.

On a RNZN warship if things turn to rubbish, a team of qualified personnel can be on the scene quickly to ascertain the problem and remedy or mitigate it as required. If perchance it really turns to rubbish and the ship cannot be saved then the crew can abandon ship, taking to liferafts. We trained for that and each time we went to sea, first day out we always had evolutions practising damage control etc. It's SOP. Hence I think your criticism of the RNZN is uninformed and uncalled for. In the old days it's have to be cannons at dawn preceded by rum :lol2
You cannot really compare the two as the time frames are different and there is bugger all maintenance you can do in the air ..... you are reliant on reliability and redundancy.

The ANZAC has two shafts but a single GT and an interconnected gearbox structure. Not sure how their UMS is set up but I would that issue with the latter would result in a slow down or shut down in the protection settings. Even separator issues can result in a slow down or shut as can any issues with the diesels. Any issue with a generator can also result in a generator shut and, trust me, depending on load, you cannot be sure the back up will come on line, particularly if there are multiple failures (or system glitch ..... yes it happens).

None of this presents an issue if the ship is in the open ocean and not in dense traffic. So no biggy there and I would free up resources.

It is different when conducting evolutions or in dense traffic or in confined waters where you should have the MCR manned in any case (same as merchant ships .... you are not in UMS in closed waters or high traffic .... well you are if you have any brains). The balance will be not reducing manning to the point you cannot sustain such operations over a long period.
 
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kiwipatriot69

Active Member
You cannot really compare the two as the time frames are different and there is bugger all maintenance you can do in the air ..... you are reliant on reliability and redundancy.

The ANZAC has to shafts but a single GT and an interconnected gearbox structure. Not sure how their UMS is set up but I would that issue with the latter would result in a slow down or shut down in the protection settings. Even separator issues can result in a slow down or shut as can any issues with the diesels. Any issue with a generator can also result in a generator shut and, trust me, depending on load, you cannot be sure the back up will come on line, particularly if there are multiple failures (or system glitch ..... yes it happens).

None of this presents an issue if the ship is in the open ocean and not in dense traffic. So no biggy there and I would free up resources.

It is different when conducting evolutions or in dense traffic or in confined waters where you should have the MCR manned in any case (same as merchant ships .... you are not in UMS in closed waters or high traffic .... well you are not if you have any brains). The balance will be not reducing manning to the point you cannot sustain such operations over a long period.
I wonder about the threat of cyber warfare, the ships systems being hackable,controllable now with such technology? Is there a countermeasure for such a possibility?
 

oldsig127

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I wonder about the threat of cyber warfare, the ships systems being hackable,controllable now with such technology? Is there a countermeasure for such a possibility?
The air gap.

Don't connect important operational systems to the internet at all.

insane
 

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
Asia Pacific Defence Reporter : APDR November 2016, Page 1

The latest Asia Pacific Defence Reporter is out, with plenty of interesting reading on Australian defence matters. You need to register, but access is free.

Their NZ page reports lots of interest in the LOSC tender, with 91 people representing 60 firms at the Industry Day in September. Presumably many of these are interested in systems and components, rather than prime contractors.

Among those attending were ASC (Aust), AAL Shipping (Singapore), Cammel Laird (UK), Damen (Netherlands), Evolution Defence (Australia), Friere (Spain), Hyundai Heavy (Korea), Kership (France), Grumman Northrop (USA), ST Marine (Singapore), TKMS (Australia/Germany), Navantia (Spain), Thales (France) and Vard (Italy/Norway).

As has previously been reported on this forum, the tender closing date has been extended to 25 November 2016.
 
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htbrst

Active Member
Looks like the USS Sampson (and HMNZS Canterbury and HMNZS Wellington) will be missing from the massed fleet entrance, instead being diverted to assist at the Kaikoura earthquake with supplies and helicopters.

I guess that also scuppers some protest plans by not being there, and also makes it a bit embarrassing to harass someone who's just offered substantial assistance to the country.

Edit: It may just be the Sampson's helicopters going rather than the ship, as well as a USN P-3. The Malaysian's have also offered a helicopter
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11748318
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Had to laugh, some reporters still refering to HMNZS Canterbury, as a frigate ��
That's alright. During the Trump election coverage I saw Bob Carr argue that Australia should take it's 'battleship' out of the maritime force in Japan to show our 'outrage' at Trump's policies...

It was a WTF moment for sure...
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
That's alright. During the Trump election coverage I saw Bob Carr argue that Australia should take it's 'battleship' out of the maritime force in Japan to show our 'outrage' at Trump's policies...

It was a WTF moment for sure...
Don't worry I've heard and seen the media here call anything painted grey a battleship regardless of size or capability. IMO a bunch of drongos who can't be bothered or are unable to check facts.
 

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
Don't worry I've heard and seen the media here call anything painted grey a battleship regardless of size or capability. IMO a bunch of drongos who can't be bothered or are unable to check facts.
Earthquake: Navy ships heading to Kaikoura, helicopter evacuations set to increase | Stuff.co.nz

Latest update from Stuff

Contains the memorable line
The navy vessel HMNZS Wellington was making its way to Kaikoura via Lyttleton to gather food for residents. Video showed it arriving off the coast of Kaikoura on Wednesday morning.

A second frigate, the HMNZS Canterbury, would transport 246 people out of Kaikoura later on Wednesday.
To be fair, the reporters are obviously under a fair bit of pressure keeping up with events this week.
 
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40 deg south

Well-Known Member
New Zealand Seeking Improved Naval Communications Capabilities

On a slightly more technical note...

New Zealand’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) issued a request for information on Nov. 12 for potential options to restore and increase the communication capabilities of both the 430-foot multirole vessel HMNZS Canterbury and the Royal New Zealand Navy’s two 279-foot offshore patrol vessels, (OPV).

The upgraded communications capability is expected to be in service until the ships are decommissioned, circa 2035.

The MoD said the existing integrated communications system, which utilizes a quad-core, fiber-optic cable network to reach the majority of the user terminals, is becoming increasingly difficult to support and provides insufficient external V/UHF radio capacity.
https://www.gets.govt.nz/MD/ExternalTenderDetails.htm?id=18128313
https://www.gets.govt.nz/MD/ExternalTenderDetails.htm?id=18128353

Strangely enough, the Canterbury and OPV RFIs are two separate documents.
 

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
Given media reports that the seabed off Kaikoura has been uplifted by 1-2 metres, I hope RNZN stress to Ministers that this is exactly one of the scenarios used in developing the specifications for the Littoral Operations Support Capability vessel, currently out to tender.
 

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/thousands-wait-hours-board-navy-ships-in-auckland

Big turnout to view navy ships up close, with people queuing for hours. View right to the end - did the Indonesian Navy march-past really include sailors in shark costumes? Maybe I've been hitting the gin too hard?

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new...nto-wellington-auckland-celebrations-continue

Unexpected Wellington visit for the ships departing Kaikoura.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/boats-gather-in-auckland-harbour-protest
My impression is that the 'peace flotilla' has been pretty much a non-event.

Plenty more photos on the RNZN Facebook page.
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/thousands-wait-hours-board-navy-ships-in-auckland

Big turnout to view navy ships up close, with people queuing for hours. View right to the end - did the Indonesian Navy march-past really include sailors in shark costumes? Maybe I've been hitting the gin too hard?

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new...nto-wellington-auckland-celebrations-continue

Unexpected Wellington visit for the ships departing Kaikoura.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/boats-gather-in-auckland-harbour-protest
My impression is that the 'peace flotilla' has been pretty much a non-event.

Plenty more photos on the RNZN Facebook page.
`Them' s sharks alright so maybe it was the rum not the gin, but very colorful and entertaining all the same.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Don't worry I've heard and seen the media here call anything painted grey a battleship regardless of size or capability. IMO a bunch of drongos who can't be bothered or are unable to check facts.
Bob Carr was our Foreign Minister... He should be completely aware that we don't operate 'battleships' nor do we have one permanently deployed to some sort of Asian Coalition flotilla...
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Bob Carr was our Foreign Minister... He should be completely aware that we don't operate 'battleships' nor do we have one permanently deployed to some sort of Asian Coalition flotilla...
The scary thing is Carr has an almost eidetic memory for things in which he is interested (political history for example), demonstrating perhaps that he doesn't give a stuff about defence in general or the navy specifically.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
You really have got to laugh at the way they try to twist thing to suit their own agenda, yet they seem to forget its those same asset that go towards successfully peace keeping missions around the world.
They have a myopic world view and peaceful they are not. Anyway last Friday and over the weekend their Facebook page was trolled which was very entertaining. They are leftwing and some think the remnants of the NZ communist party.

The USS Sampson, HMAS Darwin, HMCS Vancouver, HMNZS's Te Kaha and Endeavour arrived in Auckland yesterday and came alongside at Devenport Naval Base. They did a quick visit to Wellington on the way. No protestors in Wellington, nor from the looks of it when they arrived in Auckland.
 
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