Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Actually, even if reactors break down, the auxiliary diesel plant will get BCGN home.
Good training for them and a chance to show those long range AD missiles! Perhaps Chavez will ask for S-300!
Main propulsion on a Kirov is steam turbine. It also has turbogenerators and GT generators. Perhaps it may have a diesel generator, but that would be good only for emergency lighting.

No steam, no shaft, . . . it gets towed.
 

nevidimka

New Member
So the Kutznetsov is heading for the Mediterranean, and the Kirov is heading to Venezuela. So that leaves the recently back in service Nakhimov to lead the North fleet then.
See how having more capable ships in the navy makes Russia more flexible. LOL.

And on the Kirov, I believe once repairs and upgrades are done, hey shouldnt have problems with travelling anywhere they want? Why this perception that they will face trouble with their reactors?
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
And on the Kirov, I believe once repairs and upgrades are done, hey shouldnt have problems with travelling anywhere they want? Why this perception that they will face trouble with their reactors?
Even if there would be a problem with the reactors. The BCGNs have a secondary steam generating plant of fuel oil boilers. Enough to continue the transit and operations.

AFAIK, even in their heydey, the Kirov class BCGNs never made any trans-Altantic nor trans-Pacific cruises. I am by no means dooming the PTG for failure, just a bit skeptical that it will happen trouble free. In fact it would be great for the PTG group to make the entire cruise trouble free. This will bring a tremendous boost to confidence and morale in the Russian Navy.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Indeed. I wonder if these joint exercises are meant to help the Venezuelans make up their mind on the Il-76/78 deal, and the proposed submarine and fighter jet deals. The issue of course is that the Venezuelans want the Amur class, but Russia wants to sell them the iirc Kilo class.
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Indeed. I wonder if these joint exercises are meant to help the Venezuelans make up their mind on the Il-76/78 deal, and the proposed submarine and fighter jet deals. The issue of course is that the Venezuelans want the Amur class, but Russia wants to sell them the iirc Kilo class.
IMHO Venezuela will buy any Russian military hardware (or Chinese for that matter) regardless if a military exercise is held or not. The purchases are mainly driven by the President Hugo Chavez's personality more than anything else.

This is going off topic and perhaps should be in a Venezuela discussion thread.
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Having a Kirov BCGN in the South Atlantic should turn a few heads. With (3) other ships at least one will be a refueling tanker and I wonder if there will be a SSN in the group.

A big concern will be if the BCGN can make it down and back without breaking down. The Med cruise had her within a days steaming to any port, but an Atlantic crossing will see a different story. Good thing they plan to steam down at the tail end of hurricane season.
Looks like of the (3) escorts, one may be a "fleet tugboat" and a second (IMHO) would be a refueling tanker. That leaves just one more slot for a warship.

Russian naval visit doesn’t bother DoD
 

Grand Danois

Entertainer
Looks like of the (3) escorts, one may be a "fleet tugboat" and a second (IMHO) would be a refueling tanker. That leaves just one more slot for a warship.

Russian naval visit doesn’t bother DoD
The second warship would be Admiral Chabanenko, an Udaloy II destroyer.

WRT the fleet tug. The USN uses such as well. They're just already stationed in theatre, so it makes sense for the Russians to bring one along. But still, last time PtG went to sea...
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Already posted that in the Kirov thread.;)

But I love the fact they are bringing a fleet tug, I guess they have no faith in their ships and their material condition. ;)
Does anyone? After all it's a trans-Atlantic voyage and the first one in a long long time. I'm surprised and impressed it's happening at all. Not to mention that the Kuznetsov is going on another Mediterranean cruise.
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
A flight of two Tu-160 Blackjack bombers have flown to Venezuela escorted by NATO fighters.

Russian strategic bombers land in Venezuela

21:58 | 10/ 09/ 2008

MOSCOW, September 10 (RIA Novosti) - Two Russian Tu-160 Blackjack strategic bombers have landed at a military airfield in Venezuela, Russia's Defense Ministry said on Wednesday.

The Tu-160 Blackjack is a supersonic, variable-geometry heavy bomber, designed to strike strategic targets with nuclear and conventional weapons deep in continental theatres of operation.

The bombers will conduct a number of training flights over neutral waters in the next few days and later return to their home base in Russia, the ministry said in a statement.

The planes landed at Venezuela's Libertador airfield and during the flight to the South American country were accompanied by NATO fighters.

"The flight itinerary extended over neutral waters in the Arctic and Atlantic oceans. The Russian bombers were accompanied by NATO fighters," the statement said.

Russia earlier announced it would send a naval task force from the Northern Fleet on a tour of duty in the Atlantic Ocean and participate in joint naval drills with the Venezuelan navy in November.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said on September 1 that Venezuela welcomed the Russian Navy and Air Force on its territory.

"If the Russian Navy arrives in the Caribbean or the Atlantic it may certainly visit Venezuela, we have no problems with that and would warmly welcome it," Chavez said.

"And if Russian long-range bombers should need to land in Venezuela we would not object to that either. We will also welcome them," he said.
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
I haven't seen this post before starting a new tread on Tu-160- http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8200

These planes may have dedicated naval variants later, like the TU-95/142 Bears.
Salty Dog, what's the difference between diesel aux. plant used for propulsion and fuel oil boilers (that what I meant in my last post)?
Well, the fuel oil burning heats up the boilers producing steam which turns the turbines. The turbines would then be attached to the propeller shaft via a reduction gear.

The Diesel engines though, are auxiliary engines, they turn a generator coil to produce electricity, they don't go anywhere near the shafts.
 

Firehorse

Banned Member
A big concern will be if the BCGN can make it down and back without breaking down. The Med cruise had her within a days steaming to any port, but an Atlantic crossing will see a different story. Good thing they plan to steam down at the tail end of hurricane season.
This morning I measured on my World Map the sailing distance from Leningrad (now St. Petersburg, were Kirovs were built) around Scandinavia to Murmansk, were they are based/repaired- it's about the same as from the North Sea to Newfoundland, or from Gibraltar to Cape Hatteras, NC, across the Atlantic. Evidently they are confident that this will be trouble free transit. My bigger concern is high temperature in the tropics and the toll it may exact on the ship and her crew. I don't know if the design was only for temperate/cold zones.
 
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nevidimka

New Member
I was reading an unrelated news on unidentified sub spotted on Japanese waters n i found this interesting bit.

Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, foreign submarines and other underwater vehicles are "required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag" in territorial waters during peacetime.


Really?? does that mean all US submarines lurking in Russian waters are riding on the surface with their flags up for everyone to see?? I find that hard to believe.

link : http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080914/ap_on_re_as/japan_submarine;_ylt=AuNmThH2JlfURayB0fm_0Y5bbBAF
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I was reading an unrelated news on unidentified sub spotted on Japanese waters n i found this interesting bit.

Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, foreign submarines and other underwater vehicles are "required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag" in territorial waters during peacetime.


Really?? does that mean all US submarines lurking in Russian waters are riding on the surface with their flags up for everyone to see?? I find that hard to believe.

link : http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080914/ap_on_re_as/japan_submarine;_ylt=AuNmThH2JlfURayB0fm_0Y5bbBAF
Not really. Look at it this way, you're not in trouble until you get caught.
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
This morning I measured on my World Map the sailing distance from Leningrad (now St. Petersburg, were Kirovs were built) around Scandinavia to Murmansk, were they are based/repaired- it's about the same as from the North Sea to Newfoundland, or from Gibraltar to Cape Hatteras, NC, across the Atlantic. Evidently they are confident that this will be trouble free transit. My bigger concern is high temperature in the tropics and the toll it may exact on the ship and her crew. I don't know if the design was only for temperate/cold zones.
You can not measure accurate steaming distances from a World Map. Transit distances for sea voyages are taken from Nautical Charts.

A transit across the Atlantic Ocean is different than a coastal transit where a ship can typically remain half a day steaming from land/anchorage.

I do not understand how you can state they are confident for a trouble free transit if they are bringing a tug.

The crew should not have any problem in the tropic environment if their ships are properly air conditioned, however, electronics (radars, combat systems, communications, etc) require adequate cooling or they get fried.

Sea water injection temperature in the tropics is warmer and will cause less efficiency in the propulsion and auxiliaries steam condensers as well as air conditioning.
 

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
You can not measure accurate steaming distances from a World Map. Transit distances for sea voyages are taken from Nautical Charts.

A transit across the Atlantic Ocean is different than a coastal transit where a ship can typically remain half a day steaming from land/anchorage.

I do not understand how you can state they are confident for a trouble free transit if they are bringing a tug.

The crew should not have any problem in the tropic environment if their ships are properly air conditioned, however, electronics (radars, combat systems, communications, etc) require adequate cooling or they get fried.

Sea water injection temperature in the tropics is warmer and will cause less efficiency in the propulsion and auxiliaries steam condensers as well as air conditioning.
remember the Navy's repair ship broke down on the Med cruise its as likely now as it was then
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Not really. Look at it this way, you're not in trouble until you get caught.
Yup, the Russian, Chinese or North Koreans (i'm guessing, North Koreans are probably unlikely since i doubt they have modern subs) were just unlucky that someone spotted the periscope. Wonder who it turns out to have been, if we ever find out i guess.
 
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