Russia-Georgia Conflict: News From the War zone
- Thread starter Feanor
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There is no reason for NATO or the U.S to leave or even want to place anything classified in Georgia, this is nothing more than propaganda. Let me also state that some of the tactical communications equipment though is manufactured in the U.S but this is nothing special, the Russians themselves most likely already have comparable systems in place.
the 300 figure included Israeli advisors and other "advisors"and technicians, I assumed that the dron shot down by the Russians you can find the shoot down footage on Youtube pretty easily(I know it is a few months old). The only part of the dron you could see was the landing gear, it looked like one of ours. At any rate it is safe to assume that all the ground support equipment, control system, manuals, this gives them the radio frequencies used with the dron and what ever incryption system is used on it, are safely in Moscow right now that stuff is pretty classified. I would assume that the GRU had a shopping list of Georgian (US and Isreali supplied) advanced equipment they wanted and I seriously doubt Humvees were on the list that is why I said they were the least of our worries. If there was any electronic intelligence gear in Georgia we lost that too.
The propaganda is thinking the Russians (KGB-GRU-NKVD or what ever they call themselves these days) did not know exactly what they wanted from each Georgian military facility the visited instead some soldiers simply hijacked a few US Marine Corps vehicles awaiting shipment back to the US
nfloorl:. With the US was craming Georgian membership into NATO a lot of pre-NATO membership work was going on. To intigrate and modernize the Georgian military into our way of doing business.
Have a great day I need to get read for work see ya
The propaganda is thinking the Russians (KGB-GRU-NKVD or what ever they call themselves these days) did not know exactly what they wanted from each Georgian military facility the visited instead some soldiers simply hijacked a few US Marine Corps vehicles awaiting shipment back to the US
nfloorl:. With the US was craming Georgian membership into NATO a lot of pre-NATO membership work was going on. To intigrate and modernize the Georgian military into our way of doing business. Have a great day I need to get read for work see ya
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
If they wanted to up the situation they would send in a CBG, and i think there are a couple within a few days/week sail. If they thought there was any chance whatsoever of a USN asset actually being shot at they wouldnt send it in alone. So i dare say if they have sent a single cruiser in theater it IS for humanitarian aid. Georgia is a warzone after all and there thousands of displaced persons who need aid. Pretty simple actually. Anyway do you think a single warship will "up the confrontation" at all? If it was the Whitehouse's intention to send a signal they would have sent in much more formidable assets. They could have easilly, the Russians know this.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
It's a destroyer and a coast guard cutter and how do you know it is a disguise? A disguise for what? you only have specualtions based on prejudice on that one. Delivering humanitarian aid is actually an effective policy tool and it is being used in earnest.
If the original claims (russia) are to protect the country, non-confessed ossetia from attack of georgia, why is this looking as territorial stealing ?
Are the facts behind assumption, as action go back on one's word.
Besides i never supported war-claims of russia, or any of these countries. It's
not easy finding mutual understanding to protecting regional peace.
Are the facts behind assumption, as action go back on one's word.
Besides i never supported war-claims of russia, or any of these countries. It's
not easy finding mutual understanding to protecting regional peace.
Sampanviking
Banned Member
I thought the usual protocol was for a lot of large Industrial sized "Trawlers" to suddenly appear just outside coastal waters, the sort that occasionally get struck by missiles malfunctioning in a test.
Things have the potential to become quite Orwellian if not downright surreal, if we start to get Russian “4th Mechanized Peacekeepers” and US “1st Armored Humanitarian Aid Deliverers” rubbing shoulders regularly.
As the old joke in the UK goes, its not the job of the Royal Marines to help Old Ladies cross the Road in a Warzone, thats for the Paratroopers!
Grand Danois
Entertainer
I thought the usual protocol was for a lot of large Industrial sized "Trawlers" to suddenly appear just outside coastal waters, the sort that occasionally get struck by missiles malfunctioning in a test.
Things have the potential to become quite Orwellian if not downright surreal, if we start to get Russian “4th Mechanized Peacekeepers” and US “1st Armored Humanitarian Aid Deliverers” rubbing shoulders regularly.
As the old joke in the UK goes, its not the job of the Royal Marines to help Old Ladies cross the Road in a Warzone, thats for the Paratroopers!
Except that these ships are marked as USN/USCG ships tasked with delivering humanitarian aid - i.e. a policy mission. If the US wish to deliver arms, they can do so openly.
My questions remain unanswered.
Btw, love the joke.
the 300 figure included Israeli advisors and other "advisors"and technicians, I assumed that the dron shot down by the Russians you can find the shoot down footage on Youtube pretty easily(I know it is a few months old). The only part of the dron you could see was the landing gear, it looked like one of ours. At any rate it is safe to assume that all the ground support equipment, control system, manuals, this gives them the radio frequencies used with the dron and what ever incryption system is used on it, are safely in Moscow right now that stuff is pretty classified. I would assume that the GRU had a shopping list of Georgian (US and Isreali supplied) advanced equipment they wanted and I seriously doubt Humvees were on the list that is why I said they were the least of our worries. If there was any electronic intelligence gear in Georgia we lost that too.
The propaganda is thinking the Russians (KGB-GRU-NKVD or what ever they call themselves these days) did not know exactly what they wanted from each Georgian military facility the visited instead some soldiers simply hijacked a few US Marine Corps vehicles awaiting shipment back to the US
Have a great day I need to get read for work see ya
Very doubtful that it was a U.S drone, if that were the case the Russians would of used that information for propaganda purposes, plus I think that you overestimate just how much we have invested in Georgia, they are only in the crawl phase of even being considered for NATO, they still have Russian bad habits so to speak. U.S advisors that are still over there even stated that Georgian forces did not even have a firm grasp of basic infantry fighting skills let alone fighting as a cohesive unit as the Russians found out. Codes for radio frequencies can be changed out rather quickly during these modern times along with encryptons so the KGB most likely walked away with a little propaganda to be used by the Russian leadership.
Two different points.
1. The equipment captured at Georgian bases may be legitimately seized by the Russians. It's the property of, or being used by, the armed forces of state with which Russia is at war.
2. The Humvees at Poti, & any other equipment associated with them, are the property of the US government, not in the possession of the Georgian military, not being used against Russia, not being used in the war. The Russians have no more right to them than they have to any other private (i.e. not belonging to the Georgian government) property in Georgia. In fact, under the Geneva conventions, they are obliged to protect such property in occupied territory, not steal it.
The specific allegation is that Russian forces committed a crime by taking the Humvees. There is no allegation of criminality in the seizing of equipment from Georgian bases.
1. They cant send any CBG due to Turkey refusing access.. In fact, US cant send even any large military vessel.
2. CBG in such small sea as Black Sea is nothing more than helpless target for different ASM's, including coastal ones. US will never put CBG in such position even if they could. From military point of view CBG is useless there. Politically small destroyer is just as good.
3. And yes, i dont think they any US assets will be shot. In fact, such military help is pretty normal situation and all sides involved usually avoided confrontation with "neutral" military vessels. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Korea - to name the few most largest examples.
Pretty much agree with formal point of view. Practically, we'll see.
1. Turkey doesn't have any discretion in peacetime, but is bound by the terms of the Montreux Convention, & must refuse or permit access according to its terms. If, however, Turkey is at war, or considers itself to be in imminent danger of war, the Montreux Convention restrictions go out of the window (ref. articles 20 & 21 of the convention, covering these eventualities) & Turkey has complete discretion.
2. & 3. Yes.
I suspect the US government won't make a big fuss over a few Humvees & the like. Maybe a discreet formal note requesting their return, maybe nothing at all.
1. Turkey right now dont feel itself in war or in danger. Actually, in this conflict Turkey takes rather Russian side.
Actually, Geneva IV doesn't mention that anywhere.
There's Article 53, dealing only with the destruction of private property, although it would be debatable if the US government falls under the set of protected owners defined there.
Article 33 prohibits reprisals, i.e. destruction or seizure from protected persons following an attack; Article 27 does not specifically mention a right to property for protected persons.
At the very minimum, private property in occupied Georgian territory would likely (legally) be subject to the same seizure laws as on Russian territory. Afaik, Russia has such legislation for seizure of specific private property at wartime or for defense purposes, much like about every nation worldwide.
Which means it has no discretion. As long as US ships give sufficient notice, & aren't aircraft carriers or otherwise restricted, Turkey has to let them through.
Burunsuzoglu
New Member
coast guard cutter-hmmmmm; don't the USN send them in prior to landing marines?
Burunsuzoglu
New Member
Last time I looked they were robbing the foreigners, including the cameras from reporters.
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