Yf-23

[Atilla [TR]]

I do not have any info on this fighter I only have questions. Well why was it dumbed in favor of the F-22? And if the F-22 is illegal by U.S laws to sell outside the country, then is the Yf-23? And if the YF-23 is not illegal to sell outside the U.S, then how come countries that wanted to buy the F-22 have not considered buying the F-23, does the U.S have to pick it up to have people want to buy it?

IMO the YF-23, looks much better then the F-22

Mod edit:

What you're doing isn't overly different as far as I'm concerned. It will be monitored closely.

AD

 

[Todjaeger]

I do not have any info on this fighter I only have questions. Well why was it dumbed in favor of the F-22? And if the F-22 is illegal by U.S laws to sell outside the country, then is the Yf-23? And if the YF-23 is not illegal to sell outside the U.S, then how come countries that wanted to buy the F-22 have not considered buying the F-23, does the U.S have to pick it up to have people want to buy it?

IMO the YF-23, looks much better then the F-22

AND TO THE MODS I AM NOT STARTING A SILLY F-23 VS F-22 DISCUSSION I AM ASKING QUESTIONS REGARDING THE F-23.

I do not have all the answers, others like Magoo likely could provide more and better information but here goes. AFAIK the F-22 was selected ahead of the F-23 because there were some cost/time concerns regarding the F-23. Basically at the point of decision during the project, it was deemed that the F-23 design was likely to cost more and/or be available later than the project parameters desired. In terms of aircraft performance, I believe the F-23 out performed the F-22 in terms of VLO characteristics as well as top speed. Ultimately though the difference in performance was insufficient vs. the cost/time constraints.

In terms of other countries seeking to purchase the F-23, there would need to be a number of hurdles met before that could happen. I believe only two YF-23 prototypes were ever built before it was cancelled. It is therefore likely that additional design/development work would need to be done before the design could enter production. Other countries apart from the US might not have the financial resources to cover this, as well as production and purchase costs. Boeing of course would not be willing to absorb these costs.

Additionally, any sale would need to receive approval via FMS before it could be completed. Given the sensitive nature of much of the technology, and the fact that the US government if currently cannot by law conduct the FMS process on the F-22, I do not see the situation (in terms of saleability) being much different for a completed F-23.

-Cheers

 

[eaf-f16]

And if the F-22 is illegal by U.S laws to sell outside the country, then is the Yf-23?

The F-22 and YF-23 probably have a alot in common in terms of technology. If you want to keep the F-22's tech secret you need to keep the YF-23's tech secret. And when have you ever heard of country offering up a top-secret state-of-the-art prototype plane for sale?

Never, right?

The YF-23 is far from being ready for production even if it were for sale.

And if the YF-23 is not illegal to sell outside the U.S, then how come countries that wanted to buy the F-22 have not considered buying the F-23, does the U.S have to pick it up to have people want to buy it?

Because it's not for sale or offer to begin with.

IMO the YF-23, looks much better then the F-22

You're not the only one with that opinion, alot of people like its look over the F-22. I personally think the YF-23 is awkward looking.

AND TO THE MODS I AM NOT STARTING A SILLY F-23 VS F-22 DISCUSSION I AM ASKING QUESTIONS REGARDING THE F-23.

I have a feeling it might turn into that after people start talking about why the F-22 was chosen over the YF-23. I personally don't know why.

BTW, don't write in all caps, it's considered rude.

 

[Aussie Digger]

The YF-23 was never a production aircraft and never underwent the development that the F-22 did and the F-35 is now.

Why not ask why Countries don't buy the X-32/F-32 instead of F-35?

On top of these "minor issues", export permission to date has not been provided for the F-22. What makes you think it ever would for the F-23 instead?

 

[Atilla [TR]]

In terms of other countries seeking to purchase the F-23, there would need to be a number of hurdles met before that could happen. I believe only two YF-23 prototypes were ever built before it was cancelled. It is therefore likely that additional design/development work would need to be done before the design could enter production. Other countries apart from the US might not have the financial resources to cover this, as well as production and purchase costs. Boeing of course would not be willing to absorb these costs.

-Cheers

Actually because Japan was rejected from buying the F-22 they went out and made there own, and i read somewhere that S.Korea was doing the same, maybe U.S should have exported because now they just created competition.Long ago it was the American and British and Russian planes now it is all those plus France, Japan, S.Korea, China possible Israel wow you are bound to loose some sales.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

I honestly don't see the point of having a YF-23 thread considering that there has not been anything new about the YF-23 since 1990 when it lost to the F-22. I think only one has been built and now it is in a museum now, nothing more to it then that, other than it flying against the F-22 in the competition in 1990. That was the end of the road for the YF-23.

 

[eaf-f16]

Actually because Japan was rejected from buying the F-22 they went out and made there own, and i read somewhere that S.Korea was doing the same, maybe U.S should have exported because now they just created competition.Long ago it was the American and British and Russian planes now it is all those plus France, Japan, S.Korea, China possible Israel wow you are bound to loose some sales.

France- Doesn't have any 5th Gen fighter out or in development. Can't even sell its Rafael.

Japan- Cutting funding on their ATD-X program.

South Korea- I don't think it has the funding needed to create a 5th Gen fighter in the class of the F-35 and F-22. I don't know how their program is progressing or if it even exists.

China- Has a rumored J-13/J-XX in the works. I don't know much about it but I doubt China is ever going to export it when it starts production. Maybe, 15 years down the line, if ever.

Israel- Has no where near the amount of money needed to create one. I don't even think it's rumored to have a program in the works. Israel says that it's going for the F-35 and, if it can get access, the F-22.

The only real export threat to the F-35 is the Indian/Russian program and the Chinese plane if it's exported.

The F-22 doesn't look like it will ever be exported unless Russia comes out with something equal to it in performance and exports it to a nation hostile towards Israel or any of America's allies abroad.

 

[windscorpion]

I think the OP doesn't quite realise the amount of work that has to go into getting a plane even from prototype stage to squadrons. The F-22 saw over 10 years of extra development after it was chosen before the USAF saw any.

As for other countries 5th generation fighters (btw isn't all this "generation" stuff just marketing terms?) the ATF programme took over 20 years to produce an inservice fighter (the ATF) and the US had stuff like the F-15 to work on. I can't see anyone other than existing fighter producers like Russia and China doing it themselves. The Japanese and Korean programmes were always non-starters.

 

[Dr Freud]

I believe just a few stealthy drones would be more cost-effective. one to take out enemy AWAC forcing him to light up everything to get some situational awareness, and then have a couple of drones at each flank triangle what/where he has his platforms

 

[nevidimka]

Regarding the PAK FA being the export threat to the US. Being the premier fighter of RUssian air force of the future, is russia going to risk exporting the plane to other countries? The Flanker was not exported until many years later.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Regarding the PAK FA being the export threat to the US. Being the premier fighter of RUssian air force of the future, is russia going to risk exporting the plane to other countries? The Flanker was not exported until many years later.

Since its a joint venture with india you'd better hope they'll export it to the indians!

 

[eaf-f16]

Since its a joint venture with india you'd better hope they'll export it to the indians!

The Russian 5th Generation fighter program(s) is/are incredibly obscure and no one knows anything for sure. Some sources say the PAK-FA is an F-22ski with multi-role capabilities and some say it's an F-35 equivalent but with better A2A capabilities. There is also the slight possibility of it being two separate programs, although I personally doubt this.

I expect the PAK-FA to be exported to third-party nations ten years from beginning production if not before. Not alot of nations can afford to not export their fighters and hope to produce significant numbers of it.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

I like the sounds of the PAK FA! Does Russian fighters have good computer technology? Plus if neighbors of Israel start buying Pak FA then the U.S might open export sales for the F-22, and out of curiosity how long did it take to release the F-4, and the F-15 for export sales? Also would any of U.S allies ever think of buying the Russian counterpart?

And this is a picture of the PAK FA fighter

 

[Atilla [TR]]

You're not the only one with that opinion, alot of people like its look over the F-22. I personally think the YF-23 is awkward looking.

Now i agree with you when I look at the 2 side to side the F-22 looks much better.

 

[thorpete1]

From my understanding, the YF-23 was built using northrop grumman's (NG)knowledge of the B-2 and its LO characteristics making it very stealthy. It was also faster then the F-22 and was more manuverable at high speeds due to its unsual unstable diamond wing. It however lacked in the cost/time stakes and had serious troubles with its internal layout and low speed manuverability. Of particular concern was the YF-23 vertical stacking of internal payload (the USAF hates vertical stacking of weapons on external hard points alone) and lack of low speed manuverability which ment that if it ever came to guns the F-22 would be far better.

Its unlikely that the YF-23 will be released for other countries to look at or produce since NG's proposal for the cancelled interium bomber was the YF-23(suitably modified of course) and rumors are that a NG will propose an YF-23 like aircraft for the the the next bomber program, (when it comes).

Cheers (Sorry for the spelling).

 

[Gryphon]

YF-23 as the Interim Bomber

The attributes that lost the ATF competition for Northrop's F-23 Black Widow, made it a logical fit for the Interim Bomber - much more so than the FB-22 concepts.

The fighter mafia didn't like the absence of vectored thrust, which the F-22 has, the Black Widow did not. Northrop chose to maximize stealth, the F-23's buried exhausts (like the B-2's) could not manage vectoring. The F-23 also used a single large internal weapons bay, again for stealth. The F-22 has three bays, giving six doors that have to close perfectly to maintain stealth.

The single bay and superior stealth capabilities make/made a tempting platform to base a F/B-111 replacement on. There is an image on Ebay <shockingly enough>, a few more posts and I can embed the URL.