This forum is moderated and new members must read the Forum Rules before posting. We are aware that, as new members, you cannot post links in the first 10 posts. The following are a few survival tips for new members: (a) do not post one-liners; (b) do not convert discussion threads into news ribbons; (c) do not make multiple sequential posts in the same thread with the sole objective of increasing post count; (d) when posting facts to support your comment/opinion, cite your source(s) (by typing the article title, publication, author and page number), if you want to avoid a source challenge; and (e) we encourage fact based professional discussions and members are free to express their disagreement on defence issues; but there is little tolerance for unthinking nationalistic trolls. Over time, new members will come to appreciate the rationale for the Forum Rules. New members should also note that there are no 'this vs that' (rule number 3) platform discussions allowed because this format of discussion appeals to the less informed. We cater to members who have a real interest in learning more about air power matters and to get new members/newbies started, we have created a reference thread, called 'Air Power 101 for New Members'. We strongly encourage new members to take a look there before jumping in to the various discussion threads. In the real world, no fighter, fights on its own. Some newbies have said this policy is boring but we have had so many cycles of correcting newbies that the members of the forum are bored with dealing with people with little or no interest in having a real discussion on defence matters; and we have a reference 'thread (where some prior comparisons were made)' for new members to read, to help them stay out of trouble.