Why no new weapons for our troops????

[metro]

Hey you never know, someone out there could like the dedert eagle. I would if i were in the military.

Carry two .50 Desert Eagles, one for each hand. Each 24k Gold to make sure people know that when it comes to blowing stuff up, you're not joking around... I'm guessing if someone sees the guns being pointed at them this would solve any language barrier really quick. However, if I were carrying around $8k in my two hands plus a "secondary M16" around my back, I'd be a little bit worried about becoming a bullet magnet, from both friends and foes.

Choose your favorite color:
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Seriously though, Hollywood has made good use of the gun in big movies, and therefore, it's pretty popular on the streets (in the US at least). In general, I'd say it's military utility is.... non-existent.

 

[eckherl]

I doubt you would if you would have military experience...

Every pound you have to carry additionally to your basic load is a pain in the a**.

@Eckherl
Just with one in every hand and holding them gangster style...

Thats a chunk of metal, you darn near need two hands just to hold the bloody thing, especially the 44 or 50 cal versions, also if you look at some of the older leather holsters for it you would swear that they used a entire cow hide just so you could holster the beast.nfloorl:

 

[old faithful]

the only time i ever carried a side arm, was when i was a machine gunner,so as i was not unarmed when my MG was in use at night for gun picquet. also as a sig,again,so when in a com-cen, i was not unarmed. When carrying either an M203 or a styer, i never ever wanted another weopon aside grenades,66mm rocket launcher,claymores,smoke, c/s canisters,flares,rations,water,entrenching tools,hootchie,spare cams,sleeping gear,and other odds and sods that grunts carry....a hand gun is just not needed.

 

[eckherl]

the only time i ever carried a side arm, was when i was a machine gunner,so as i was not unarmed when my MG was in use at night for gun picquet. also as a sig,again,so when in a com-cen, i was not unarmed. When carrying either an M203 or a styer, i never ever wanted another weopon aside grenades,66mm rocket launcher,claymores,smoke, c/s canisters,flares,rations,water,entrenching tools,hootchie,spare cams,sleeping gear,and other odds and sods that grunts carry....a hand gun is just not needed.

U.S tankers also carry side arms which are only used for close defensive measures, but if your tank is hit and you survive the standard practice was to grab the loaders MG with as much ammo as possible. You would also need to take your asbestic gloves also so that you do not burn your hands if you need to fire it.

 

[kato]

My "sidearm" in the Bundeswehr was a fullsize G3A3 rifle, with a (normally mounted) MG3 as my primary. When in the truck, the G3 would go to the storage clasp in the door in there, when outside, the MG would stay on the truck. Simple solution. Pistols simply weren't part of our STAN outfit.

Only times i carried a (loaded) sidearm really was on the oh-so-many-times of guard duty, and that's it. And even then the handgun was only there to serve me until i'd make it from the front room into the back room (with the "real weapons"), or for certain functions where i was supposed to carry some kind of weapon (ceremonial, escort, blah) and wouldn't carry any other gear anyway.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Carry two .50 Desert Eagles, one for each hand. Each 24k Gold to make sure people know that when it comes to blowing stuff up, you're not joking around... I'm guessing if someone sees the guns being pointed at them this would solve any language barrier really quick. However, if I were carrying around $8k in my two hands plus a "secondary M16" around my back, I'd be a little bit worried about becoming a bullet magnet, from both friends and foes.

Choose your favorite color:
http://www.magnumresearch.com/CustomFinishes.asp

Seriously though, Hollywood has made good use of the gun in big movies, and therefore, it's pretty popular on the streets (in the US at least). In general, I'd say it's military utility is.... non-existent.

Pilots can use it since they can't carry a rifle. Pilots carry sidearms because if they get shot down in enemy territory they need a weapon to defend themselves.

 

[Waylander]

Yeah but a desert eagle?
Common I don't expect them to hang this big beast onto their flight suit in a cramped cockpit.
And a pistol for a pilot is also more for making him feel good than for anything else.
What does you do if you are shot down and an enemy patrol or search group finds you?
You are so heavily outgunned then that it is near to impossible to fight your way out of the trouble.

Half the crew in a Leopard II also carries pistols (The P1 is crap but the P8 is good and reliable).
But the same behaviour like Eckherl described it. If one has to leave the tank take the loaders MG and maybe also the coax with as much ammo as possible and try to get back to your lines.

 

[eckherl]

Yeah but a desert eagle?
Common I don't expect them to hang this big beast onto their flight suit in a cramped cockpit.
And a pistol for a pilot is also more for making him feel good than for anything else.
What does you do if you are shot down and an enemy patrol or search group finds you?
You are so heavily outgunned then that it is near to impossible to fight your way out of the trouble.

Half the crew in a Leopard II also carries pistols (The P1 is crap but the P8 is good and reliable).
But the same behaviour like Eckherl described it. If one has to leave the tank take the loaders MG and maybe also the coax with as much ammo as possible and try to get back to your lines.

Is the P1 the same thing as the Walther P-38 that dates back to WW2. Also who on the tank crew carry the side arms.

 

[Waylander]

It is not the same but very similar.

http://www.bimbel.de/artikel/bilder/p1/p1-magazin.jpg

I really hated it. Unreliable, not very accurate, poor handling and only 8 rounds.
In the end you have to hope for a deadly chuck.
Gets one point for classic design...

Normally the driver and the gunner should carry a pistol and the loader and TC a submachinegun (Currently UZI will be replaced by MP7) for fighting out of the hatchet in an emergency situation.

But usually no TC wants to carry the UZI and so one takes the gunners pistol.

There are also two handgrenades and one thermit stick carried in the track.

 

[kato]

Actually, we had one vintage 1940 Walther P38 in our armory that had the Wehrmacht stamps X-ed out and was restamped as "P1" (with grip pieces exchanged, since that's about the only major difference).
At 60 years of age back then, that one really hit the P1's prejudice of "you got eight shots - and one throw". Once actually managed to hit the ground some 25m in front of me when aiming straight forward with it, and i'm not that bad.

Example for other armoured vehicles:
On a Fuchs, driver carries a Uzi, TC carries P1/P8 and takes the MG when dismounting, if possible. There's also a satchel with four hand grenades for them. Crew in the back (on the non-APC variants, as they have plenty of space there) will have rifles and at least one PzF3.

 

[eaf-f16]

Yeah but a desert eagle?
Common I don't expect them to hang this big beast onto their flight suit in a cramped cockpit.
And a pistol for a pilot is also more for making him feel good than for anything else.
What does you do if you are shot down and an enemy patrol or search group finds you?
You are so heavily outgunned then that it is near to impossible to fight your way out of the trouble.

Not just that. One must also consider that if a pilot ejects with a .50 cal Desert Eagle strapped on his hip wouldn't it just rip off his flight suit becuase of it's massive weight and the G-forces involved?

And I also thought the .50 cal version of the Desert Eagle was good only for like 8 shots and that's if you put one in the barrel.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Oh come on the desert eagle is not that big!!! Larger then most other pistols yes, but it is not impossible to carry.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Not just that. One must also consider that if a pilot ejects with a .50 cal Desert Eagle strapped on his hip wouldn't it just rip off his flight suit because of it's massive weight and the G-forces involved?

Thats a little bit of an exaggeration don't you think??

 

[Waylander]

Hmmm, a Desert Eagle weights 2kg (empty magazine) and has lovely 7+1 rounds in the .50 cal version.
273mm long (6"), 159 high and 32 wide.

You get a P8 (9mm), which is not even a very small pistol, with 15+1 rounds for 0,72kg. 194mm long, 136 high and 32mm wide.

See the difference?
This thing is just damn unsuited for military use.

 

[eckherl]

Thats a little bit of an exaggeration don't you think??

Who do you see that can use this as a primary side arm. A fighter pilot is shoe horned into his aircraft.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Who do you see that can use this as a primary side arm. A fighter pilot is shoe horned into his aircraft.

How about a very high ranking general or commander?

 

[Waylander]

I thought we talked about serious use and not about a guy who thinks that his stars don't shine enough...

 

[old faithful]

cmon guys....a pistol in combat, except for spec warfare in the hands of EXPERTS, is useless. One exception maybe suicide rather than be caught by a :shudder very hostile enemy...

 

[eckherl]

How about a very high ranking general or commander?

You may have a few out there with the Rambo style approach, a side arm is pretty much a last ditch weapon, if you look at who carries them they do have some sort of a primary weapon, as Kato and Waylander and a few others have pointed out, armored crewmembers carry them due to vehicle fighting compartment sizes but there is always a battle assesment approach procedure that is carried out when a vehicle is hit by taking along additional weapons when you evacuate a vehicle. A side arm actually is used when your enemy pretty much can literally reach out and physically touch you, and if they are that close then you may be in a world of hurt. A Desert Eagle is too big to have strapped to your body especially when moving about in a vehicle or having to hit the dirt, I cannot count how many times I have recieved contusions because of my side arm while inside a tank due to being tossed around and I have carried both the M1911A1 and M9, I would cringe if I had to carry something as big as a Desert Eagle. Where this type of weapon may play a role as Old Faithful suggested is in the hands of a expert that is required to rescue hostages out of a building as a example.

 

[kato]

Sidenote on the Desert Eagle and its weight: For exactly the same weight of a loaded DE .50AE, you get a MP7A1 with two 20-round magazines.

I definitely know what i'd pick if i had to choose between those two. Not that i would have to choose, as the MP7A1 would be the default sidearm, not the DE.