AICfan1989
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I hear they are going to build a new Flight III DDG-51 destoryer and have it enter service in 2016 to replace the CG(X) but what will be the difference between a Flight III and the current Flight IIA they have now?
Whats the difference between a Flight IIA and a new Flight III Burke?
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The flight III will be longer and wider and have more VLS tubes and and defenses. As well as better systems all around.
Basically a super burke.
Hey when it works great why mess it up.
AICfan1989
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Thats great news but at what point is it still a destroyer? A Super Burke would be a cruiser for sure. But they are still calling it a destroyer? Isn't it going to have the new AMDR as well?
Would you happen to have a source saying the Flight III will be bigger and have more VLS?
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Juramentado
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NAVSEA/PEOShips haven't posted specifications for the Flight IIIs other than a general declaration of AMDR being part of the asset. BIW in Maine is solely focused on pushing out the IIA class Michael Murphy which will be the last DDG before the Zumwalts. I believe BIW has the Zumwalt build exclusively. We can probably expect to see a lot of the cascade technology that will make it into the AB Flight III when the Zumwalts start coming off the drydocks - including decisions on major features such as the combat systems and any improvements/innovations to the armament suite. But the program for Flight III will NOT start with the last Zumwalt entering the water.
There will be a RESTART of Flight IIA improvements with DDG113 to about DDG115, mostly evolutionary, like SPY1D(V), MFTA sonar, LAMPS Mk3 Blk 2, and crew-automation like single watchstander. This is referred to as New Construction (NEWCON) to distinguish from pre-Zumwalt builds. The very last improved variant of the IIA will cover DDG116-DDG120 - it's not openly stated what technology will distinguish those last hulls but if you look at the what the Zumwalts are supposed to feature, it's a fair bet that those hulls will share things like hybrid electric drives and other commonalities between the two platforms.. DDG121 will be the real Flight III, at least according PEOShips today. AMDR has generally be defined as needing to be operational in FY2019 in order to meet that vessel production schedule. Suffice it to say, it will be a few more years before Flight III specs are really laid out from a developmental perspective, and a few more before that becomes public information.
Source - straight from PEOShips - "DDG 51 Arleigh Burke-Class Destroyer - New Construction Program" by CAPT Peter C. Lyle, DDG 51 Program Manager.
Nothing is really publicly available at this time except a few reports about different radar and an emphasis on BMD.
If it performs the traditional destroyer roles then it is still a destroyer regardless of size.
I think this has generaly been the consenses. Though it is still going to get argued about.
The new Japanese carrier now....i mean destroyer
AICfan1989
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OK but whats the difference in the mission performance between a cruiser and a destroyer if the Fight III will replace the Ticonderoga class?
Is it also possible that the new Flight III could carrty larger and wider missile tubes to carry a larger voulume as well as bigger weapons in general?
The DDG-1000 only has 20 MK 57 VLS but carries 80 missiles in a quad pack, if a Flight III version has 80-100 such tubes that means +320 standard missiles can be carried in theory.
Part of the problem is that there are no set standards for what is a "destroyer", "cruiser" or other surface combatant. For example the USN in the 60's and 70's large surface combatants were called "Frigates" but were then changed to Guided Missile Cruisers later on (partially due to the so called "Cruiser Gap" and that no other navy called such large ships "Frigates"). Also the Ticonderoga class were originally Destroyers but when the Aegis Strike Cruiser was canceled and the Tico's were to be the primary carrier escort they were redesignated as cruisers (which fits since they have equipment redundancy and embarked command facilities that the Burkes do not have).I think this has generaly been the consenses. Though it is still going to get argued about.
The new Japanese carrier now....i mean destroyer
If the Flight III Burke really does replace the Tico's then they may no longer fall under the "Arleigh Burke Class" designation and will probably be called cruisers. The Spruance, Ticonderoga and Kidd's all shared the same hull form, engineering layout and mostly the same hull internal arrangement yet all 3 served in vastly different roles and thus were designated differently.
The DDG-1000's will have 20 Mk-57 modules of 4 cells each each giving you a total of 80 cells (the current Mk-41 VLS has 8 cells per modules) and you can quad pack ESSM only (the Mk-57 is bigger than the Mk-41 VLS but not big enough to be able to quad pack anything larger than a ESSM, the main advantage will be to hold larger BMD or land attack missiles) .
I wonder if they'll put the VLS launchers toward the outside of the hull instead of center line. I know they were supposed to do it on the Zummwalts it was supposed to act as a almost reactive armor.
AICfan1989
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Do you think the Flight III Burkes will have embarked command facilities like the Ticos?
Its unclear whether the new Flight III will use the MK-41 or the MK-57, but is it safe to say that the Flight III will probably carry more missiles than the Flight IIA Burke?
It will be interesting to see how they shoehorn the AMDR and other new equipment into the Flt III Burkes. I've read where the existing Burkes,are already considered the "densest" platform in the Navy, crammed with all sorts of stuff.
http://defense.aol.com/2012/10/05/navy-bets-on-arleigh-burkes-to-sail-until-2072-40-years-afloat/
Navy Bets On Arleigh Burkes To Sail Until 2072; 40 Years Afloat For Some
..."We're going to be delivering over 30 times the radar capability in the same space," Capt. Doug Small, program manager for AMDR, told AOL Defense. That's essential to track large numbers of incoming enemy aircraft and ballistic missiles at the same time, something current destroyers have only limited ability to do.
To run the new radar, however, Small went on, "it's going to take roughly double the power [and] maybe a little more than double the cooling" so it doesn't overheat. "We fit -- easily might be a little overstated --but we fit within the DDG-51 footprint," he said. The Navy is just completing a two-year study of all the modifications required.
So while Arleigh Burkes are upgraded with other new equipment all the time, AMDR cannot be affordably retrofitted to existing ships. The changes to accommodate it are so extensive that the Navy considers them a new iteration of the class, "Flight III." The USS Murphy and the next few destroyers planned are all Flight IIAs, which have the passive SPY-1 radar as earlier Arleigh Burkes. They are distinguished by the addition of a helicopter hanger. The Navy plans to start building the AMDR-equipped Flight IIIs in FY 2016...
http://defense.aol.com/2012/10/05/navy-bets-on-arleigh-burkes-to-sail-until-2072-40-years-afloat/
Navy Bets On Arleigh Burkes To Sail Until 2072; 40 Years Afloat For Some
..."We're going to be delivering over 30 times the radar capability in the same space," Capt. Doug Small, program manager for AMDR, told AOL Defense. That's essential to track large numbers of incoming enemy aircraft and ballistic missiles at the same time, something current destroyers have only limited ability to do.
To run the new radar, however, Small went on, "it's going to take roughly double the power [and] maybe a little more than double the cooling" so it doesn't overheat. "We fit -- easily might be a little overstated --but we fit within the DDG-51 footprint," he said. The Navy is just completing a two-year study of all the modifications required.
So while Arleigh Burkes are upgraded with other new equipment all the time, AMDR cannot be affordably retrofitted to existing ships. The changes to accommodate it are so extensive that the Navy considers them a new iteration of the class, "Flight III." The USS Murphy and the next few destroyers planned are all Flight IIAs, which have the passive SPY-1 radar as earlier Arleigh Burkes. They are distinguished by the addition of a helicopter hanger. The Navy plans to start building the AMDR-equipped Flight IIIs in FY 2016...
It was being suggested that the better long-term solution would be to,adapt the DDG-1000 to the AMDR role. It would be better,able to meet the space, power and cooling requirements and with some projected costs of the Flt III Burke approaching $3B, it looked like a compelling case.
All the increases in hull displacement up until now have been by increasing the length. Wouldn’t making the hull wider require a completely new design? It not like you can split it lengthwise and put an additional section.
That is probably one reason why they are going to the electric drive. Instead of having the limited auxiliary power generators currently used to run the radar you can, if necessary, shift the entire output of the propulsion plant into the radar and coast. The new arrangement is also supposed to eliminate the need for many of the auxiliary generators, which would save on maintenance and maybe make room for another big turbine-generator.
Cooling the beast will probably be trickier. It is not just the heat exchangers to get discharge the heat to the ocean, but the plumbing to get the heat there. They are going to have to shift a lot of compartments to make room.