What's everyone's opinion on the current conflict in Syria?

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I believe the PLA Navy is the escort so I don't think they will let that happen. To much riding politically and diplomatically for China for the PLA Navy to stuff up. I think if someone tries a snatch of the weapons the PLA Navy may be rather firm in their defence of said weapons.
No, I'm talking about the land convoys, which are run by the Syrian Army. I don't think there's any serious threat for the weapons once they're on the ship.

Assad's negotiation team will demand as a precondition for any agreement that Assad remains in power, and no elections to replace him. They will be supported in his demands by Russia, Iran, and China.

The rebel negotiation team will demand as a precondition for any agreement that Assad steps down immediately and elections held to choose a successor. They will be supported by the Sunni states, most of Europe, and the USA.

The radical Islamists will declare the negotiations null and void because they weren't included, even if they would come, which they won’t. They will demand the immediate conversion of Syria into an Islamic caliphate.

The diplomats and politicians will announce that the talks are successful, having succeeded in agreement on most issues with only a few remaining to be resolved in further negotiations.
Are you sure the rebels will stick to their demands? Their position is a lot weaker then it was a year ago.

True. It's hard for him to make accusations of Sunni extremism stick against an alliance which is fighting Sunni extremists.
Only if the alliance is winning. Otherwise he can easily claim that they're an irrelevant player that can't speak for the rebels as a whole.
 

My2Cents

Active Member
Are you sure the rebels will stick to their demands? Their position is a lot weaker then it was a year ago.
The rebels have never abandoned the demand. Given the history of Assad's father dealing with rebellion they believe that they and their families will be killed by the regime if he stays in power. They really feel they do not have the alternative.
 

BDRebel

New Member
Are you sure the rebels will stick to their demands? Their position is a lot weaker then it was a year ago.
It seems the only possible scenario for a successful Geneva 2 is for both sides to renounce some of their demands. In my opinion, Assad agreeing to step down is a possibility if some conditions are met; say political asylum for him and his clan.

If Geneva 2 fails, then that leaves only one possible solution to the war which is military intervention. By then, it could be justifiable as the only means possible since negotiations have failed.

Or, and I certainly hope not, another long-lasting war in the region similar to the Lebanese civil war.
 

SolarWind

Active Member
It seems the only possible scenario for a successful Geneva 2 is for both sides to renounce some of their demands. In my opinion, Assad agreeing to step down is a possibility if some conditions are met; say political asylum for him and his clan.

If Geneva 2 fails, then that leaves only one possible solution to the war which is military intervention. By then, it could be justifiable as the only means possible since negotiations have failed.

Or, and I certainly hope not, another long-lasting war in the region similar to the Lebanese civil war.
The civil war in Syria has the potential to destabilize the region. If it drags on, given the involvement of Hesbollah on one side, and Iraqi Sunni militants on another, we might see the civil wars in Lebannon an Iraq come back. If stability of the region is a high priority to Russians, might they not prefer the political asylum option for Assad?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
It seems the only possible scenario for a successful Geneva 2 is for both sides to renounce some of their demands. In my opinion, Assad agreeing to step down is a possibility if some conditions are met; say political asylum for him and his clan.

If Geneva 2 fails, then that leaves only one possible solution to the war which is military intervention. By then, it could be justifiable as the only means possible since negotiations have failed.

Or, and I certainly hope not, another long-lasting war in the region similar to the Lebanese civil war.
There is another solution. Letting Assad win. And it looks like it may be a likely outcome yet. I agree that Assad won't be willing to step down. Not after the success of the last year.
 

My2Cents

Active Member
It seems the only possible scenario for a successful Geneva 2 is for both sides to renounce some of their demands. In my opinion, Assad agreeing to step down is a possibility if some conditions are met; say political asylum for him and his clan.
Unfortunately the International Criminal Court does not recognize any agreement for immunity from prosecution, so that is the one thing that cannot be promised. In fact Assad is rumored to have explored the possibility when it looked like he was going to lose quickly, and was informed that Russia and China wouldn’t protect him from the ICC.
Or, and I certainly hope not, another long-lasting war in the region similar to the Lebanese civil war.
Already started, just look at the shootings and bombings. Saudi Arabia and Qatar are financing new equipment for the Lebanese military. Hezbollah has been a problem that Lebanon has wanted to eliminate for decades.

An international court in the Hague has just started a trial in absentia of 4 Hezbollah members as the killers of premier Rafiq Hariri in a 2005 using a massive car bomb. The case got taken over by the UN after Hezbollah threatens to kill anyone involved in the trial made it impossible in Lebanon. This is already heat things up even more, after just the first day.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
It just dawned on me that part of what we are currently seeing could be a religious cold war being fought between Saudi Arabia and Iran through proxies. They seriously want a piece of each other but have too much to lose through direct confrontation.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Meanwhile, another Syrian Mi-17 was just shot down, by a rebel OSA SAM. Djeish al Islam controls the SAM in question, and this is the third aircraft it shot down.

pfc_joker:
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Hezbollah has been a problem that Lebanon has wanted to eliminate for decades.
It think it would be more accurate to say that Hezbollah has been a problem that some segments of Lebanon would like to eliminate; as you're aware Hezbollah still has a lot of support from certain segments of the Lebanese population - some of which may not agree without everything Hezbollah does - that sees it as a legitimate resistance organisation. The last thing the Lebanese army wants to do is to ever find itself in a position where it would have to order the Sunni majority Lebanese army to go after Hezbollah as this would lead to a full scale civil war.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LAl-KI_Gfc"]Inside Story - Fanning Lebanon's sectarian flames? - YouTube[/nomedia]


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSDA4s7CqGA"]Life in Lebanon according to Robert Fisk - YouTube[/nomedia]


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj4GKPPUbe4"]Journalist Robert Fisk: Arab League using war in Syria to attack Iran - YouTube[/nomedia]

It just dawned on me that part of what we are currently seeing could be a religious cold war being fought between Saudi Arabia and Iran through proxies. They seriously want a piece of each other but have too much to lose through direct confrontation.
There has been a 'cold war' between the Sunni Arab Gulf states [led by Saudi Arabia and supported by the West] Iran for some time now: the Saudis are extremely anxious to see Assad go as this would severely weaken and further isolate Iran and Hezbollah. The last thing the Saudis want to see is a U.S./Iran rapprochement as this would complicate things for them and ease the pressure on the 'heretic' Iranians.
 
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BDRebel

New Member
There is another solution. Letting Assad win. And it looks like it may be a likely outcome yet. I agree that Assad won't be willing to step down. Not after the success of the last year.
That isn't really a solution. Letting Assad win means crushing a popular rebellion. If the rebels are silenced now, then they will rise again in the near future. Look at Iraq.

As mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, the way we see it, if Assad stays in power, then the rebels and their families will be slaughtered without hesitation. Its do or die for the revolution.

I'm just curious if any of you have heard of the Hama massacre in the 80s? It was led by Assad's uncle who slaughtered thousands (some say 80,000) in the city of Hama because it was where an uprising was stemming from. So if that's what they did to a city that was on the "verge" of revolution, imagine what they would do to the country that has been revolting for 3 years.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Yes, Patrick Seale covered it in ''Asad of Syria''; it was led by Rifaat Assad whom I believe is now in London. Robert Fisk also wrote about it in ''The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East''.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbOBwoEtzw"]Robert Fisk on the Hama Massacre, 30 years on - YouTube[/nomedia]
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
That isn't really a solution. Letting Assad win means crushing a popular rebellion. If the rebels are silenced now, then they will rise again in the near future. Look at Iraq.

As mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, the way we see it, if Assad stays in power, then the rebels and their families will be slaughtered without hesitation. Its do or die for the revolution.

I'm just curious if any of you have heard of the Hama massacre in the 80s? It was led by Assad's uncle who slaughtered thousands (some say 80,000) in the city of Hama because it was where an uprising was stemming from. So if that's what they did to a city that was on the "verge" of revolution, imagine what they would do to the country that has been revolting for 3 years.
Precisely because Assad is a brutal dictator instead of a flimsy pseudo-democracy, he might be able to crush the rebellion thoroughly. But it remains to be seen.
 

My2Cents

Active Member
Are you sure the rebels will stick to their demands? Their position is a lot weaker then it was a year ago.
Syria's president says his departure is not up for discussion at Geneva talks | World news | theguardian.com

The spokesman for rebels is being very vague about their position, as required by the by their backers, but the statements by the radical Islamists and the Assad regime are in line with my expectations.

We should know more in a week (if the conference on Friday fails to open) or two (Probably can't last longer than that since the representative of neither side can make independent decisions and will have to report back to get instructions.).
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Spam deleted. F35 lover you need to read the rules, and look at the quality of your posts.
 

colay

New Member
It looks like Assad has managed to outwit the US re surrendering it's chemical weapons. Pres.,Obama now faces the quandary of reversing direction and ordering strikes and undoing all the diplomatic capital expended. There is little to show from the talks so far and little prospect this will change. So Assad still has 95% of his deadliest WMDs and little incentive to fulfill his obligations.

The US gave diplomacy a chance but every day that passes further erodes US credibility. Time to draw another line in the sand and enforce it this time around.

U.S. accuses Syria of stalling on chemical arms handover
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
The US gave diplomacy a chance but every day that passes further erodes US credibility.
Assad can also argue that he gave diplomacy a chance but that the rebels were more interested in discussing his removal rather than discussing ways of scaling things back. He can also say that for things to scale back and before discussions can take place about limiting Hezbollah's involvement that the Saudis and Gulf states [all mates of the West off course] have to stop funding and supplying the extremists/jihadists/terrorists. And one has to ask: did Kerry make a smart move by announcing - at the opening of the talks - that Assad has to go and that there's no place for him in a future government? Sure, the most countries want Assad gone but couldn't that have been discused later after some progress had been made during the talks? From the perspective of many U.S. credibility has long been eroded and became eroded further when it spoke of strikes but failed to act and failed to gain popular support from its allies/friends.

Time to draw another line in the sand and enforce it this time
Well the Saudis and other Gulf states would like to see this happen but what comes after that? Is there the political will to do more than strikes? Strikes will make Obama look tough and will degrade the ability of Assad to sustain his fight but will not solve all the pressing problems in the country; problems that will inevitably have an adverse affect on the region.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ts-asalqaida-poses-as-peacemaker-9084078.html
 

colay

New Member
Strikes could kill the ongoing diplomacy, not that it seems to be achieving much. OTOH, not striking just emboldens Assad to continue his course while retaining WMD capability. So at the very least, strikes could motivate the regime to be more cooperative and not just on the WMD issue. So they could be a catalyst to speed things,along but in what direction? If they serve to enhance the leverage of the US and moderates in any way, better than the status quo IMO.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
So at the very least, strikes could motivate the regime to be more cooperative and not just on the WMD issue.
Assad knows that strikes are intended to be largely cosmestic; to show the world that the concerned West is doing something to 'punish' the 'regime' and more importantly he also knows that Uncle Sam and her allies have no political will or desire at present to push it further than that. The strikes - if they ever come - will only strenghten Assad's relationship with Russia and will only reinforce what he's probably been telling his loyalists, that all Uncle Sam and allies wants at the end of the day is to topple his government/regime irrespective of any cooperation or consessions his government may make.

A question we should ask ourselves: Is Syria really not cooperating or are there other factors at play here?

So they could be a catalyst to speed things,along but in what direction? If they serve to enhance the leverage of the US and moderates in any way, better than the status quo IMO.
Doubt this will happen with the 'moderates'; for one thing the moderates are slowly being pushed aside by other elements [those the West calls extremists and jihadists]. A nighmare scenario will be how to deal with a post-Assad Syria that is dominated by extremists and jihadists; one that poses a bigger danger to its neighbours than Assad's Syria ever did.
 
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