What should Pakistan do?

[ThunderBolt]

What do you guys think that Pakistan should do to increase its effectiveness. Like for example i would like to see Pakistan buy more anti tank helis cause they have less than 50 cobras and thats it. Another thing that i think they should do is perhaps get some better infantry weapons, anything is better than AK 47's, yes they do have G3's and some styer augs but mostly 47 and 74's they are a profesional army and they should get profesional rifles. And its very nice to hear that they are getting those radars from Lockheed. So what do you guys think?

 

[aaaditya]

What do you guys think that Pakistan should do to increase its effectiveness. Like for example i would like to see Pakistan buy more anti tank helis cause they have less than 50 cobras and thats it. Another thing that i think they should do is perhaps get some better infantry weapons, anything is better than AK 47's, yes they do have G3's and some styer augs but mostly 47 and 74's they are a profesional army and they should get profesional rifles. And its very nice to hear that they are getting those radars from Lockheed. So what do you guys think?

what is the difference between a proffesional and an amateur rifle?
steyr is a very good ,pakistan must make this gun its standard firearm,they must build a network system which would link every soldier and must develop the integrated soldier concept like the ones that usa ,germany,south africa and israel have developed.

check this site for informtion on those concepts www.army-technology.com

pakistan needs something similiar to them.

 

[ThunderBolt]

Thanks for taking time and replying, i was thinking maybe something like a GPS system for every soldier or atleast a fireteam, and i don't think they even have those. Thats a good website, should you know more like this, please let me know.

 

[aaaditya]

Thanks for taking time and replying, i was thinking maybe something like a GPS system for every soldier or atleast a fireteam, and i don't think they even have those. Thats a good website, should you know more like this, please let me know.

sure i wil let you know.

by the way gps is integrated with that system and hence each soldier can have his own gps sensor .by the way the israeli system seems to be the best,but i think pakistan should try and acquire the south african system know as the african warrior as it would be best suited for the conditions in the region,would be cheaper than the us or german systems ,pakistan has already acquired defence technology from south africa,and this system is currently available in the market.

 

[adsH]

They have been working on a battle Management System that they've just recently sold to UAE, so I wouldn't say they aren't modernizing. GPS is not the only way of tracking Battle Field Assets. And you don't necessarily need to hand out clever gadgets, you need to design a system that works best for you. Modernizing is not just adding gadgets in the field. Technology is introduced to enforce a doctrine it is to build upon current capabilities. so you need to conduct a detailed Study of capabilities analyze benefits and juggle them around with cost and the situations each group of Forces are going to face. For instance The Pakistan Army may not have the same communication and operational requirements as the Royal Army May have, RA amongst other roles has an expeditionary role copying a system that works for them would not only be a waste of resources but may also prove to be incredibly dangerous for them.
Different Groups and clusters of forces in any Military organizations have different roles so they have to be equipped differently. The Most important Aspect of any Organization is its Logistical capability RAF alone Manages unto 2 Million Line items in its stocks that it tracks it may be using the same system as a high street supermarket but its functionality not exclusivity that is important here. YOU don’t need to reinvent the wheel, if a systems is available on the market and is cheaper meets the operational requirements then I see no reason why the Military should design and build its own.

 

[adsH]

Thanks for taking time and replying, i was thinking maybe something like a GPS system for every soldier or atleast a fireteam, and i don't think they even have those. Thats a good website, should you know more like this, please let me know.

The Thing is that No Military other then the UK and US Military would rely completely on the GPS system The Europeans on there own are developing there own system that will work along the US GPS system. Integrating GPS at GI level means your tying in your entire force on a system that is out of your control. To me that is a bad decision. Technology is a weird thing it will increase your capabilities but it will also put you at risk if you don't have the capability to Mange the infrastructure. An organization would never depend on a system that it does not control or can't manage. Amongst other things Infrastructure Management includes Security. Operational effectiveness (Accuracy) so in short GPS is out of foreign Military Organization Control. I wouldn't hold my breadth on foreign forces completely relying on GPS.

 

[ThunderBolt]

Thnx, ADSH we aren't talking about Pakistan producing its own communications or GPS systems, but i meant that they should accuire those. Ofcoarse it will be way too expensive for Pakistan to build them on there own. But on the helicopter side i would say that if they can't buy them they should make them. I think you are from India, do you know what they use as their anti tank operations, Helis or something else??

 

[WAR]

To take the issue differently: I wish to add that no matter what military hardware presently is in the inventory of Pakistan, the real issue is its effective usage, which requires combat motivation in letter and spirit. As is said that combat motivation is actually more important than the real combat. US and allied forces with latest state of the art equipment couldn't achieve their desired goals in Iraq and Afghanistan. The number of casualties of the soldiers, over the period should have been an eye opener.
So, the point is that the procurement of advanced military hardware is a continous process. The other aspects, like the one mentioned above should also be taken into account.

 

[Hussain]

I think firstly Pakistan needs to increase its defence spending over the next ten years. The defence budget should be doubled to take into account the magnitude of the problems Pakistan is facing. The civil infrastructure is non existent in Pakistan and only the military is in a position to fill the void.


The need of the hour for Pakistan is to acquire more helicopter for transport, disaster relief, assault and anti tank . They also need to have the logistics (fuel and ammunition) which they do not have at present. Apparently during the recent earthquake Pakistan did not even have the fuel to fly the limited number of helicopters they had on the ground. This is a complete joke. HOW WILL PAKISTAN COPE IN ANY OFFENSIVE WAR IF THEY CAN'T SUSTAIN THERE OUTDATED AND MEAGRE ARMY AVIATION?

Pakistan need to reduce the number of old tanks an induct more AL Khalid's and Al Zarra. I think the maximum number of tanks Pakistan should have should be in the region of around 1200. Pakistan needs to purchase or produce propeller driven planes for the army in the anti tank and, anti personnel and anti aircraft role. Pakistan should take the example of Brazil In the use of the Super Tucano. I think Pakistan needs at least a 150 of these types of plane. Reducing the number of obsolete tanks, trucks , jeeps and all the other scrap could compensate for the induction of propeller planes.

In terms of the airforce Pakistan needs to purchase Mirage F1's and at least an initial batch of 20 to 30 Rafale's. These still remain amongst the best planes on the market that can have long term lifespan for upgrading. It looks the like the JF17 is going to be long term solution rather than the short term solution for Pakistan.

Pakistan needs at least 10-15 more submarines and they should be assembled in Pakistan's dockyards.

 

[WAR]

This is in reply to Mr. Hussain's quote:

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As far as we are dreaming, let's dream high!!!
Wish list can be any and many. There may be requirements too. But having in the process of procurring F-16s worth $4 billion, do you think Pakistan would be in a position to acquire the weaponry mentioned in you post? Who would on earth going to fund that, especially keeping in view of our per capita income, budget deficit, foreign exchange reserves, earthquake relief loan (which is required to be paid back) and meagre exports which is one of the source of earning....

 

[dronzer]

This is in reply to Mr. Hussain's quote:

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As far as we are dreaming, let's dream high!!!
Wish list can be any and many. There may be requirements too. But having in the process of procurring F-16s worth $4 billion, do you think Pakistan would be in a position to acquire the weaponry mentioned in you post? Who would on earth going to fund that, especially keeping in view of our per capita income, budget deficit, foreign exchange reserves, earthquake relief loan (which is required to be paid back) and meagre exports which is one of the source of earning....

What you have said is absolutely wright ,pakistan should concentrate more on theirf economy .They should try to improve the way of living of pakistani's.
Recent incident prompted pak to stop the procuerment of F-16's,which is a very good thing.No country in the world would want to be in such situation (copremising their defence needs).
In the presrnt situation pakistan is not having any direct threat from any other country even from India.What they are facing now is the internal problems .To counter that ,they must improve the quality of their soldiers(weapons,protection armour,etc...),instead of that they are spending much in big war toy's.


(same is applicable in the case of India & other asian countries)

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identify me

 

[Hussain]

This is in reply to Mr. Hussain's quote:

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As far as we are dreaming, let's dream high!!!
Wish list can be any and many. There may be requirements too. But having in the process of procuring F-16s worth $4 billion, do you think Pakistan would be in a position to acquire the weaponry mentioned in you post? Who would on earth going to fund that, especially keeping in view of our per capita income, budget deficit, foreign exchange reserves, earthquake relief loan (which is required to be paid back) and meagre exports which is one of the source of earning....

I don't think its about dreaming , but about effective resource management. The country's economy under so called democracy has been looted. The money taken abroad by politicians and civil servants would have been much better invested in the military. Its a national disgrace that a nation that has so much mountainous terrain hasn't even got the helicopters that it requires. Who is managing fuel supplies? Why hasn't the military got more fuel depots and reserves? Why is India spending so much in its arms and equipment?

Even before the earthquake I was making the point that Pakistan needs more helis. If they had more helis then tens of thousands of lives could have been saved. I think that is the reality. I am still not sure how the economic infrastructure of Pakistan needs to be built by the civilian poulation. Pakistan is nation built on agriculture. The population is hardly literate enough to create an economic giant. It should also be noted the western nations used the capital taken from Asia to build their economies. It took nations such as Britain, through Imperialism, hundreds of years to build up their economies. Who is Pakistan going to plunder?

The most important project, Gwadar, has grown out of strategic reasons rather than pure commercial ones. However Gwadar will become one of the most important economic hubs in Asia. Pakistan should think f enhancing its strategic objectives through the military! Think of the way Rome expanded technologically through the use of its military machine.

 

[ajaybhutani]

I don't think its about dreaming , but about effective resource management. The country's economy under so called democracy has been looted. The money taken abroad by politicians and civil servants would have been much better invested in the military. Its a national disgrace that a nation that has so much mountainous terrain hasn't even got the helicopters that it requires. Who is managing fuel supplies? Why hasn't the military got more fuel depots and reserves? Why is India spending so much in its arms and equipment?

Even before the earthquake I was making the point that Pakistan needs more helis. If they had more helis then tens of thousands of lives could have been saved. I think that is the reality. I am still not sure how the economic infrastructure of Pakistan needs to be built by the civilian poulation. Pakistan is nation built on agriculture. The population is hardly literate enough to create an economic giant. It should also be noted the western nations used the capital taken from Asia to build their economies. It took nations such as Britain, through Imperialism, hundreds of years to build up their economies. Who is Pakistan going to plunder?

The most important project, Gwadar, has grown out of strategic reasons rather than pure commercial ones. However Gwadar will become one of the most important economic hubs in Asia. Pakistan should think f enhancing its strategic objectives through the military! Think of the way Rome expanded technologically through the use of its military machine.

In one way or the other condition for all the developing and underdeveloped countries is bad. The british had the technology enabling them to colonize and rule. pakistan doesnt have that either... still u believe that paistan can enhance its objectives throught the military. who is it going to exert its power on iran ??( they wont be afraid they can buy a lot more than paksitan can imaging in a very short time with the oil and gas deposits they have).
india?? they are too strong for pakistan to influence.
afganistan?? you have influenced them thru taliban via isi for a long time. i dont think it helped u guys except bring US in ur backyard.
where are u guys planning to use the military might. its surely of no symbolic use on the negotiation tables with any of the neighbours and clearly paksitan is too small to have a capability to exert military might at far away countries.
Small countries use a vastly different strategy for development than military look at south korea or taiwan. spending more on infra is the one that will bring in more jobs and not spending on buying chineese made planes/ships..

 

[Hussain]

ajaybhutani. Who ever said Pakistan needs to invade any other country? Defence is not invasion. Power projection is not invasion? Once again what has buying anything from China got anything to do with what Pakistan requires overall. Pakistan can't tell India how to manage its military and who to buy weapons from. India spends a lot of money on Russian and Israeli arms. Why doesn't India spend more on its poorest people rather than spend it on Israeli and Russian weapons? India has, whether rightly or wrongling, been using its military to keep the country together. As so have many other countries in the world.

Why is Pakistan too small to exert its military influence? It has nukes, a navy and an airforce. Pakistan is larger than England and Israel + many other European countries.

 

[webmaster]

Ajay, a show of little more respect for your Pakistani neighbors would be nice. Please don't try to flame...

Pakistan has the right to develop it's military in anyway she desires, just like India, Israel and others have the right and continue to pile up arms for their country's defence. Some folks may not like that fact but self defence right applies to everyone equally. To say that she must not work on her defence is very stupid, cowardly and denying the ground realities in South Asia.

Pakistan can't sit still while it's neighbor has brought South Asia on continous nuclear and conventional arms race and continues to lead the way in arms build-up. Pakistan must do everything in it's power to keep regional bullies in check, which is required for peace and well being of people of South Asia.

Thread Closed.

 

[SABRE]

In one way or the other condition for all the developing and underdeveloped countries is bad. The british had the technology enabling them to colonize and rule. pakistan doesnt have that either... still u believe that paistan can enhance its objectives throught the military. who is it going to exert its power on iran ??( they wont be afraid they can buy a lot more than paksitan can imaging in a very short time with the oil and gas deposits they have).
india?? they are too strong for pakistan to influence.
afganistan?? you have influenced them thru taliban via isi for a long time. i dont think it helped u guys except bring US in ur backyard.
where are u guys planning to use the military might. its surely of no symbolic use on the negotiation tables with any of the neighbours and clearly paksitan is too small to have a capability to exert military might at far away countries.
Small countries use a vastly different strategy for development than military look at south korea or taiwan. spending more on infra is the one that will bring in more jobs and not spending on buying chineese made planes/ships..

Ajay Bhutani every country has right to establish & develop its military & Pakistan is included in it. Pakistan army's objectives are not to assert its enfluence on any one. Its objectives are to defend the country specialy at the easter borders. Our Eastern Neighbours have a military valcano which can erupt any time & spill on us. Certainly you do not expect Pakistan to sit leg on leg with arms folded while its Easter neighbours are buying more Tanks, Ships, Subs, AirCrafts, building Missiles etc & blaming Pakistan for their failures, losses & Short Comings.

Our Eastern neighbours have crossed our borders thrice & we have to make sure they dont do so for the 4th time.