What is the status of the 2 remaining ex-Kirov Russian battlecruisers ?

[contedicavour]

It's been a while I haven't heard or seen anything on the Piotr Veliky (the 4th Kirov) and of its remaining sistership. Does anyone know if they are still really operational ?
And btw, what about the 3 Slavas ? I've seen pictures of the Moskva in the Black Sea Fleet, but none (recent) of the other 2 ones based in Murmansk and Vladivostok.

cheers

 

[kilo]

i've heard that they are in "working" condition but rarely go to sea. this is from a book published in 2000

 

[rickusn]

PETR VELIKIY and MARSHALL USTINOV of the Northern Fleet were out on excerices in late 2004.

PETR VELIKIY again in the summer of 2005.

There are plans reported for another such exercise this fall.

Both ships are considered nominally operational and I would assume will be at sea soon.

ADMIRAL NAKHIMOV is in overhaul for the next three to five years.

VARYAG ws involved in exercises with India in late 2005.

MOSKVA was involved in exercises earlier this year.

 

[Gladius]

Wait, wait, wait...

The Kirov class include four ships: Admiral Ushakov, Admiral Lazarev, Admiral Nakhimov and Pyotr Velikiy.

The only on active duty now is the Pyotr Velikiy in the Northern Fleet; the Admiral Nakhimov was included on the State Arms Program pending of extensive overhaul and is docked on FSUE «PO «Sevmash» since 1999; the Admiral Ustinov and Admirald Lazarev have been inactive for many years and both are likely to be scraped soon.


The Varyag, Marshall Ustinov and Moskva are Slava class cruisers not Kirov class battlecruisers.

 

[rickusn]

We already know that. LOL

He asked what the two remaining ships of the Kirov class AND the three ships of the Slava class were up to.

What didnt you understand?

About the Admiral Ushakov its been stricken and will definitely never return to service as its reportedly been scrapped.

The Admiral Lazarev is laid-up in the Pacific fleet since 1999 and hasnt been to sea since 1990 and is unlikely to return to service.

 

[Gladius]

What didnt you understand?

I understand all .

The problem was the writing of your message, without clarifying the class of each ship, only mentioning the name of the ships, readers less informed can confuse the information of your answer.

My message tried to clarify yours, nothing else.

Cavour, You, I and many others can understand it easily with the mere names because we know the ships class correspondencess, but we must remember that the forum is read not only by us, but by many people of all type and level of knowledge of the subject.

Sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my intention.

Btw, the Ushakov was striken this year???? Because the last information that I had was of the past December when he was at the Zvezdochka shipyard in Severodvinsk, pending of sale to scrap. Do you know who bought it? Thanx

 

[alexsa]

Global Security provides some good info on the Kirov class which appears knowledgible. According to this page there were five that commenced construction. One was never completed, two are reported as written off. One is in repair and one is operational.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/1144.htm

Admiral Ushakov (ex-Kirov)

At the end of 1997 only the Admiral Nakhimov remained operational. (Peter the Great commisioned in 1998 as noted below)

The Admiral Ushakov, which had been inoperable since 1989-1990, was stricken in October 1998 to provide material for a refit of the other active unit of the Kirov class, the Admiral Nakhimov. However, on 14 January 1999 the Russian Duma voted the Admiral Ushakov be repaired and restored to service, using funding allocated for other construction and repair projects. In September 1999 the Russian Northern Fleet's Admiral Ushakov cruiser was sent from Severomorsk to Severodvinsk to undergo modernisation. The ship's nuclear powerplant will be replaced. Besides, the cruiser wil be armed with the latest weapons and fitted with most advanced navigation equipment. The money for the upgrade was provided by the Russian regions. As of 1999, over 10 million roubles have already been allocated of the total of 100 million roubles needed for the Admiral Ushakov upgrade.
The Admiral Ushakov was reportedly written off in 2001.
In October 2003 it was reported that Zvezdochka shipyard’s Director Nikolai Kalistratov stated that Norway will allocate $40m for dismantling the atomic cruiser Admiral Ushakov. $12 million more will be required to upgrade the place where the used nuclear fuel is spent.

Admiral Lazarev (ex-Frunze)

At the end of 1997 the Admiral Lazarev was said to be slated for disposal because of insufficient funding for needed repairs.

Admiral Nakhimov (ex-Kalinin)

In April 2001 Russia Navy Commander-in-Chief, Adm Vladimir Kuroyedov stated that the Kirov-class battle cruiser Admiral Nakhimov, which had been laid up since 1999 at Severodvinsk, will be re-commissioned by the Russian Navy.
As of early 2004 the Admiral Nakhimov was undergoing repairs at Sevmash. Its overhaul is due to be completed in 2007.

Petr Velikiy

The much-delayed Petr Velikiy, which arrived in the Northern Fleet in November 1996 for acceptance trials, was finally commissioned on 18 April 1998, but in the Northern Fleet rather than in the originally planned Pacific Fleet. However, she was subsequently laid up at Severomorsk awaiting completion and repairs. On 23 March 2004 Russia's navy chief reportedly said that the nuclear-powered Peter the Great missile cruiser, was in such dire condition that it could "explode at any moment" - only to backtrack on his statement a few hours later. Admiral Vladimir Kuroyedov said the massive cruiser had been badly maintained and could "explode any moment", adding that "it's especially dangerous because it has a nuclear reactor". Just three hours later, however, Kuroyedov retracted his ominous statement, saying he had been misunderstood by the media. "There is no threat whatsoever to the ship's nuclear safety," he said in a statement. "The ship's nuclear safety is fully guaranteed in line with existing norms." He added that some flaws in maintaining the cruiser's living quarters would be fixed within three weeks, after which the ship would become fully combat-ready.

The Petr Veliki cruiser docked for repair at Roslyakovo starting on 19 April 2004. The ship repairers will clean and paint the submarine part of the ship, repair the armature and examine the steering system. The floating dock PD-50, where the Admiral Kuznetsov had been repaired, was prepared for the flagship of the navy. As of July 2004 the flagship of the Northern Fleet, the Pyotr Veliky, heavy nuclear guided-missile cruiser, also fresh from repair, was carrying out missions so as to be in what is called "first-line" readiness in the second half of August 2004.

Kuznetzov

Budget cuts at the end of the Cold War led to discontinuing the construction of a fifth unit of the Kirov class.

 

[contedicavour]

Thanks to all.

Pretty impressive, still 1 Kirov and 3 Slava operational, plus 1 Kirov in overhaul. Given the state of the Russian Navy and of its SSN/SSBNs in particular, I wouldn't have expected so many cruisers to be operational.

cheers

 

[Big-E]

Thanks to all.

Pretty impressive, still 1 Kirov and 3 Slava operational, plus 1 Kirov in overhaul. Given the state of the Russian Navy and of its SSN/SSBNs in particular, I wouldn't have expected so many cruisers to be operational.

cheers

Operational is being a bit generous.

 

[contedicavour]

Operational is being a bit generous.

Well at least they sail once or twice a year in international missions... though you are right that we have no proof their electronics and their missiles are really operational.

cheers

 

[Rich]

They are handsome ships tho arent they?

 

[Pathfinder-X]

They are handsome ships tho arent they?

Products of the Cold War are always handsome. It's too bad these ships became dock relics than what they are meant to be.

 

[contedicavour]

Products of the Cold War are always handsome. It's too bad these ships became dock relics than what they are meant to be.

They were a modern interpretation of WW2 battleships with over a hundred missiles between SS-N-19 Shipwrecks, SA-N-6 Grumbles, SA-N-9s, etc etc.
However for today's post-cold war missions the Kirovs are more like "overkills" costing a huge amount of money to operate when used for anything less than attacking USN aircraft carrier battle groups

cheers

 

[RubiconNZ]

Buying it?

Suprised the Chinese doesnt just purchase the decommed ones, it would certainly provide an extrordinary amount of firepower, and would give Cina a massive boost in the region.

 

[Waylander]

I think buying more Tu-22M Backfires or so would be much easier and cheaper and with them you could also rain down missile salvos against enemy ships despite the fact that they are also usefull for other tasks.

 

[Wild Weasel]

I doubt highly that the Russians would sell either of those platforms to the PRC.
Such a move would be seen as an extremely provocative move by the US government, and would likely undo decades of goodwill and diplomacy between all three nations.

Moreover, I'm pretty sure that Russia still considers the "Kirovs", and the Backfires to be critical parts of their national defense strategy, and they may still be very guarded about making technical details available to any nation.
China and Russia are on much better terms these days, but they have no way of knowing that any matter of Russian state security provided to the PRC can be kept from the US.

It is no secret to anyone that the US could have spies operating in Russia, or China.

But really, both of these systems are just about obselete these days.
The US has had time to train, build, and develop systems that could be used to counter them in combat.
The Aegis system was meant to be a counter to both.
The USN 688-class, and newer SSNs would probably mean certain death for the Kirovs if they ever became a threat. ( And the ships would be even worse off under the PLAN banner, as their fleet ASW capability is absolutely abysmal.
Finally, the AMRAAM's ability to be guided to intercept and even be retargeted by off-board sytems such as the E-2C and E-3A, means that any front-line tactical fighter can shoot down a Backfire ( and/or the ASM's it has launched ) at the weapon's maximum range- and they don't even have to use their radars to do so. A single F/A-18 could carry as many as ten AMRAAMs per plane, and the AMRAAM's proven combat record to date, has shown each missile to be an almost guaranteed one-shot kill- even against fast, maneuvering, air-breathing targets such as the MiG-29M.

 

[tphuang]

I doubt highly that the Russians would sell either of those platforms to the PRC.
Such a move would be seen as an extremely provocative move by the US government, and would likely undo decades of goodwill and diplomacy between all three nations.

Moreover, I'm pretty sure that Russia still considers the "Kirovs", and the Backfires to be critical parts of their national defense strategy, and they may still be very guarded about making technical details available to any nation.
China and Russia are on much better terms these days, but they have no way of knowing that any matter of Russian state security provided to the PRC can be kept from the US.

It is no secret to anyone that the US could have spies operating in Russia, or China.

But really, both of these systems are just about obselete these days.
The US has had time to train, build, and develop systems that could be used to counter them in combat.
The Aegis system was meant to be a counter to both.
The USN 688-class, and newer SSNs would probably mean certain death for the Kirovs if they ever became a threat. ( And the ships would be even worse off under the PLAN banner, as their fleet ASW capability is absolutely abysmal.
Finally, the AMRAAM's ability to be guided to intercept and even be retargeted by off-board sytems such as the E-2C and E-3A, means that any front-line tactical fighter can shoot down a Backfire ( and/or the ASM's it has launched ) at the weapon's maximum range- and they don't even have to use their radars to do so. A single F/A-18 could carry as many as ten AMRAAMs per plane, and the AMRAAM's proven combat record to date, has shown each missile to be an almost guaranteed one-shot kill- even against fast, maneuvering, air-breathing targets such as the MiG-29M.

You basically just gave reasons why China would not want Kirov and Backfire. We know that Slava class and Backfire have both been offered to China and got rejected. Kirov is definitely more powerful than Slava, but anti-ship is not really a great need for China right now. Getting Udaloy class seemed to be a far wiser purchase.

As for the AMRAAM guaranteed one shot kill, you don't really need to be that dramatic. If you are close enough to the target (within the NEZ), that rate is really not saying much. Have we seen any AMRAAM kills from more than 30 km out?

 

[Big-E]

How could Kirov be offered to PLAN with Shipwreck missiles? Their range is too great under international arms transfer stipulations. Same goes for Kitchen missiles.

 

[tphuang]

How could Kirov be offered to PLAN with Shipwreck missiles? Their range is too great under international arms transfer stipulations. Same goes for Kitchen missiles.

I'm guessing it would have been modified to fire other Russian missiles that is acceptable under MTCR.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

Suprised the Chinese doesnt just purchase the decommed ones, it would certainly provide an extrordinary amount of firepower, and would give Cina a massive boost in the region.

If by firepower you mean the mysterious P-700 Granat, then it's a definite no. I doubt the Russians would give the Chinese the satillite support needed for midway guidance, therefore severely compromising the potential capability of this weapon. These vessels are designed for one specific purpose and not suitable for the current PLAN doctrine.

I think buying more Tu-22M Backfires or so would be much easier and cheaper and with them you could also rain down missile salvos against enemy ships despite the fact that they are also usefull for other tasks.

The problem is that the production facilitiy for Backfires has been shut down for years. Similar anti-ship capability can be obtained by upgrading the current fleet of H-6 bombers to carry long range ASM without having to build up an expensive support infrastructure needed to operate the T-22M3.