Atilla [TR]
New Member
Sorry I just heard German Holding company.
What Assault Rifle - British Army Should Replace SA-80 A2 With?
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King_Typhoon
New Member
What if SA80-A2 Out of Service, what you all should go replace it with?
SA80-A2; Good Assault Rifle, still heavy and cumbersome weapon (still best accuracy and reliabilty as i been told)
i think british should go for -
any fold stock with Pitanccy Rail Top (Can Put ACOG Sight) and AG36 At Current Service - G36 K or C will save money (due as they already use AG36) and can fold stock in APC or IFV Type (warrior) any suggest?
For RM Commando They Should Go For Bullpup easy for reload in sea so they cant get wet when reload adove waist level. maybe SAR-21 RIS or TAR-21, AUG A3, FN2000 all ideal bullpup rifle.
or design new weapon?
SA80-A2; Good Assault Rifle, still heavy and cumbersome weapon (still best accuracy and reliabilty as i been told)
i think british should go for -
any fold stock with Pitanccy Rail Top (Can Put ACOG Sight) and AG36 At Current Service - G36 K or C will save money (due as they already use AG36) and can fold stock in APC or IFV Type (warrior) any suggest?
For RM Commando They Should Go For Bullpup easy for reload in sea so they cant get wet when reload adove waist level. maybe SAR-21 RIS or TAR-21, AUG A3, FN2000 all ideal bullpup rifle.
or design new weapon?
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
For starters the British Army and Royal Marines would both get the same rifle. Secondly, I don't see what benefit ANY of these design have over the currently in service L85A2.
Interesting....
The thing if this new weapon is to come, it will for sure be "West" like a new "M" version riffle
I thing it could be a AUG riffle
Related topic reference recently introduced AI long range sniper rifle.
New sniper record set by Corporal of Horse Craig Harrison of the UK's Household Cavalry using a L115A3 8.59mm long-range rifle. The two targets slain were measured by a GPS system at 8,120ft, or (1.54 miles). The previous record for a sniper kill is 7,972ft, set by a Canadian Corporal Rob Furlong, of Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry in 2002, who used a 12.7mm McMillan TAC-50 rifle.
According to the report, near perfect conditions.
IA will be rubbing their hands at the prospect of future sales, after all carrying a 8.59mm magnum rifle all day instead of a 12.7mm must be a walk in the park by comparison.
Hotshot sniper in one-and-a-half mile double kill - Times Online
AI's portfolio of weapons continues to expand, they have now moved in to the semi-auto market catering to armies in A-Stan who have begun issuing heavy barrelled 7.62mm semi-auto's at section level. No reason why they shouldn't look at exploiting their extensive expertise and come up with a next generation UK spec infantry rifle similar to the SCAR with quick-change barrels/working parts to allow for role/environment calibre changes.
New sniper record set by Corporal of Horse Craig Harrison of the UK's Household Cavalry using a L115A3 8.59mm long-range rifle. The two targets slain were measured by a GPS system at 8,120ft, or (1.54 miles). The previous record for a sniper kill is 7,972ft, set by a Canadian Corporal Rob Furlong, of Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry in 2002, who used a 12.7mm McMillan TAC-50 rifle.
According to the report, near perfect conditions.
IA will be rubbing their hands at the prospect of future sales, after all carrying a 8.59mm magnum rifle all day instead of a 12.7mm must be a walk in the park by comparison.
Hotshot sniper in one-and-a-half mile double kill - Times Online
AI's portfolio of weapons continues to expand, they have now moved in to the semi-auto market catering to armies in A-Stan who have begun issuing heavy barrelled 7.62mm semi-auto's at section level. No reason why they shouldn't look at exploiting their extensive expertise and come up with a next generation UK spec infantry rifle similar to the SCAR with quick-change barrels/working parts to allow for role/environment calibre changes.
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The L85's weight is one of the things that makes it so accurate isn't it?
I think based on events on the ground and troop feedback, any new weapon would need calibre looking at, or introduction of something like SCAR that might make it easier for units to carry multiple calibres without a massive supply chain. The idea that the whole squad can carry a 5.56 is simply wrong based on combat experience, so either a larger calibre needs adopting for all weapons, or a mixture introduced.
I'd hope they stick with a bullpup for all its obvious advantages, and MrQuintus, does it really need to be fully ambidextrous, they seem to manage alright now.
I think based on events on the ground and troop feedback, any new weapon would need calibre looking at, or introduction of something like SCAR that might make it easier for units to carry multiple calibres without a massive supply chain. The idea that the whole squad can carry a 5.56 is simply wrong based on combat experience, so either a larger calibre needs adopting for all weapons, or a mixture introduced.
I'd hope they stick with a bullpup for all its obvious advantages, and MrQuintus, does it really need to be fully ambidextrous, they seem to manage alright now.
It's pretty easy to include ambi controls for use when doing weak side transitions, as for ejection, I think the move towards forwards ejection will make this a moot point.
Are you joking? The G3 is a dated design and surely no candidate to replace any modern rifle. It is being replaced in Germany with the much lighter, far more ergonomic and easy to shoot G36. Having shot both of them I'd say luckily so.
And the bullet is not similar to the soviet 7.62x39, NATO 7,62x51 is a much more powerful, heavier (almost rifle) cartridge.
Don't Iran and pakistan still use the G3? Saif1 is, or at least claims to be Pakistani, so this might explain his comment.
Although I do agree with you, the G3 is a bit dated and there unquestionably are better options for a proposed SA80 replacement.
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G3, are you mad? That's been superseded by the G36, no longer made outside Pakistan and Iran. Good weapon in its day, reliable and hard hitting. Never understood why the G3K had a smaller shoulder plate on the extending butt when compared to an MP5 though, the later has almost zero recoil unlike the former!
The biggest issue is not the rifle (plenty of suitable options on the market), but ammunition. The UK military is happy enough with the much improved SA80, no need to replace until the wider community (NATO) decides which calibre to go with. Post Iraq/A-Stan, I suspect something between 5.56 and 7.62, possibly 6.8mm.
Almost rifle? I'd say the 7.62 x 51 or .308 cartridge is a full power rifle round. I'm fairly sure the SLR I was issued with was not firing 'almost rifle' rounds.
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
This is the critical question, untill they figure out a new round I doubt any major militaries will be replacing their combat rifles, any additional benefits are usually outweighed by the cost. SA-80 or G36E? M-16A2 or AK-74M? FA-MAS or Steyr AUG? Is there really all that much difference?
Untill we have a new calibur (likely something that hits harder than the 5.56 but has comparable in weight) why would you bother? That's why I never really understood the XM-8, as cool as it was.
King_Typhoon
New Member
british should be re-emerged old british round (4.85mm) actually 5mm or other britsh round (6.5mm or 7mm) for assault rifles and SAW rifle. i would not suspires that any NATO member turn back to 5.56mm or 7.62mm to new rounds as they outdate now. (NATO should be go re-evaluation NATO standard rounds)
i think britsh should go for ethier these rounds with accuracy bullpup rifle, as it is idea urban combat rifle and compact size.
G36KE are best option maybe AUG A3 too.
interest note- 4.85mm (lost to 5.56mm) and 6.5mm and 7mm (lost to 7.62mm) was best in NATO untill belgian 5.56mm late entry were narrow better, usa were use 5.56mm and 7.62mm - they urgency other countries follows usa standard round (as they already got in store).
4.85mm are exellette kinetic peneration due small but lack hit power as 5.56mm as heavy? as usa say it is under power (BUT in real test 500 and plus metres 4.85mm peneration body armour and helmet nato standard where 5.56mm fail peneration strange but fact)
6.5mm and 7mm are superior recoil ( more accuracy ) and kinetic peneration also lack hit power as 7.62mm? (british been told that 7.62mm are over power so lack accuracy and usa ingrone and go ahead) is it right?
(correct me if me wrong please as i forget somewhere i was read it)
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/256brit.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_46/ai_59281216/
(i find it)
i think britsh should go for ethier these rounds with accuracy bullpup rifle, as it is idea urban combat rifle and compact size.
G36KE are best option maybe AUG A3 too.
interest note- 4.85mm (lost to 5.56mm) and 6.5mm and 7mm (lost to 7.62mm) was best in NATO untill belgian 5.56mm late entry were narrow better, usa were use 5.56mm and 7.62mm - they urgency other countries follows usa standard round (as they already got in store).
4.85mm are exellette kinetic peneration due small but lack hit power as 5.56mm as heavy? as usa say it is under power (BUT in real test 500 and plus metres 4.85mm peneration body armour and helmet nato standard where 5.56mm fail peneration strange but fact)
6.5mm and 7mm are superior recoil ( more accuracy ) and kinetic peneration also lack hit power as 7.62mm? (british been told that 7.62mm are over power so lack accuracy and usa ingrone and go ahead) is it right?
(correct me if me wrong please as i forget somewhere i was read it)
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/256brit.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_46/ai_59281216/
(i find it)
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i dont think it will be replaced for some time yet the current budget will be exempt from the first cuts of the libservative government but we have a large hole to fill in our public finances.The l85 though is a fine weapon it think just modifying the l85 is all they will do. its like the us m16 series thats been around since the 60s . i think buying another rifle would be a waste of money and a wheel reinvention
although when the time comes i think a larger 6.8mm possibly in the shape of a g36 or maybe something like the new south korean oicw
although when the time comes i think a larger 6.8mm possibly in the shape of a g36 or maybe something like the new south korean oicw
Mutatio Nomenis
New Member
I don't claim to be that much of an authority on assault rifles, but I think that if they want to stay NATO standard that they should go Tavor. If they are going to break with NATO, then they should go for something from the AK-100 series, Yet, I am a diehard AK fan.
The UK isn't likely to break from the NATO standard for a variety of reasons (politics, logistics, cost, tactical concerns (sound of rifle causing potential blue-on-blue), etc.). AKs, are at this point...highly unlikely.
Based off of a quick look at who the Tavor has been sold to in the past (special operation forces in Georgia, Portugal, etc.), it seems to me that the Tavor would likely be considered only by the UK's special/elite forces (i.e. Royal Marines, Paras, SAS). Granted, the sales to Israel and Thailand might suggest that the Tavor could prove appealing to the UK's regular army forces as well; but I think the UK will look elsewhere for its next AR.
The UK will not go for Tavor, it's not a step-change from the latest and upgraded version of the SA80. UK SF (SAS/SBS/SFSG) use the Canadian version of the US standard issue rifle, they are happy with that and see no need to change. The recent addition of the sharpshooter semi-auto 7.62mm rifle completes the circle at section level, with a hearty mix of 5.56mm, 7.62mm and 40mm munitions to play with. The UK would never go for an AK derivative, whilst reliable and easy to maintain, it's no way comparable in accuracy to the current batch of modern western designs.
The deciding factor will be NATO ammo changes, if and when that happens.