Warship Prices

[JBodnar39]

I am trying to get a grasp on the prices paid for various types of modern warships; for Ex a frigate or SS or OPV. Any info is appreciated

Thanks

 

[Aussie Digger]

I am trying to get a grasp on the prices paid for various types of modern warships; for Ex a frigate or SS or OPV. Any info is appreciated

Thanks

It depends mostly on the weapon, sensor and fire control/EW fitouts, plus the manning complement. For example the Australia ANZAC class frigates were considered relatively "low cost", however they were not equipped for modern warfare from the start having only a 5inch gun, 8x Seasparrow SAM's, Mod 46 Torpedo's and 0.50cal HMG's as their armament.

Now they are being equipped with Nulka active decoy system, Harpoon Block II, ESSM, MU-90 Torpedo's, "mini-typhoon" 12.7mm "close in anti-surface" guns and possibly a "second layer" SAM system (such as RAM or Mistral). These capabilities, plus new radar, illuminators, EW kit are required to actually make them usable in modern combat scenario's and have added substantially to the price...

 

[Grand Danois]

A Horizon DDG costs M800 €, whilst the Herakles equipped FREMM (ASW or Land Attack/GP) comes in at approx. M400 €. The DCN claim they can reduce that to M280 € with a build rate of 3 per 2 years.

The rationale behind building a FREMM AAW derivative of the Horizon is exactly this difference in cost.

I would estimate the Danish FFG project to M290$-ish apiece. But that is my own rough calculation...

 

[Todjaeger]

Any idea of the cost of an Absalon? Or, what the different options for an Absalon cost?

 

[Grand Danois]

Any idea of the cost of an Absalon? Or, what the different options for an Absalon cost?

Hard to say accurately as exchange rates, inflation, etc. differ from when they where built. Roughly put, around M190$ apiece, with most of the fitout, but sans missiles.

The FFG's are an Absalon variant.

 

[contedicavour]

A modern 1800 tonne OPVH costs 90 million euro (Comandanti Class)
A FREMM with EMPAR costs 320 million euro (R&D & fixed costs excluded)
As already mentioned above, a horizon DDG costs 800 million
A 27,000 tonne aircraft carrier costs 1360 million euro
A U212A SSK costs 250 million each (R&D & fixed costs excluded)

cheers

 

[RA1911]

Last figures I heard on the Norwegian Nansen class frigates was 22billion NOK for the entire program. That's roughly 2.6billion Euro total or 520million Euro pr. ship.

I believe that includes the helicopters...

 

[Sea Toby]

And yet a simple 1800 ton OPV such as the Irish Roisin without a combat data weapons system, i.e. the expensive targeting computers for the anti-air missiles and gun systems, runs around M 30-40 Euros. A third or possibly half the price of a corvette or a small frigate is its combat data weapons systems, not the size of the hull.

With combat data weapons systems, its not the missile launcher, or radar mast, or the gun, its the sophisticated electronics and computers of the combat data weapons systems. Steel is cheap compared to these electronics.

 

[contedicavour]

And yet a simple 1800 ton OPV such as the Irish Roisin without a combat data weapons system, i.e. the expensive targeting computers for the anti-air missiles and gun systems, runs around M 30-40 Euros. A third or possibly half the price of a corvette or a small frigate is its combat data weapons systems, not the size of the hull.

With combat data weapons systems, its not the missile launcher, or radar mast, or the gun, its the sophisticated electronics and computers of the combat data weapons systems. Steel is cheap compared to these electronics.

Indeed, and that's why today's destroyers have the size of yesterday's cruisers, and today's frigates have the size of yesterday's destroyers, etc

Besides, spare space on a hull allows for one or 2 mid-life updates including new VLS, radars, etc.

I wouldn't however compare a simple OPV as the Roisin with a combat capable OPV with combat data weapons systems, because these can easily be upgraded to carry SSMs and SAMs, while the simple OPVs will always remain big patrol boats. That may be fine for Ireland, but not for other customers.

cheers

 

[Sea Toby]

I agree those little black boxes, or should I say big black boxes, makes a difference in price. Its the same with the air force's fighters versus their jet trainers. The ship or the aircraft with the best black boxes, radars, and missiles will defeat a ship or an aircraft with less. Its very important to be the first to see and the first to shoot.

A larger nation which can buy larger numbers maybe able to purchase 4 corvettes or small frigates, for the price of 3. There can be significant savings in numbers. For example, when Australia bought over 40 NH90s helicopters, they were able to acquire them for much less each than when New Zealand acquired their 8. Smaller nations with smaller orders don't get a break.

 

[riksavage]

'A Horizon DDG costs M800 €, whilst the Herakles equipped FREMM (ASW or Land Attack/GP) comes in at approx. M400 '

How does this compare to the cost of the UK Type 45?

 

[Grand Danois]

'A Horizon DDG costs M800 €, whilst the Herakles equipped FREMM (ASW or Land Attack/GP) comes in at approx. M400 '

How does this compare to the cost of the UK Type 45?

According to the UK MoD, has been removed from the Website now, btw.

"Unit Production Cost (UPC) in 2004 was £576M per ship (note: UPC excludes cost of development and 'cost of capital' charges)"

 

[contedicavour]

According to the UK MoD, has been removed from the Website now, btw.

"Unit Production Cost (UPC) in 2004 was £576M per ship (note: UPC excludes cost of development and 'cost of capital' charges)"

Interesting. At current exchange rates, 860 million euro per ship excl R&D and fixed costs. 7% more expensive than the Horizon/Forbin/Doria in exchange for a more powerful phased array radar (but no SSMs, no CIWS, no ASW... and exactly the same SAMs).
I'd still invest in a Horizon which has better multi-purpose equipment. Though the larger Royal Navy can afford dedicated ships.

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

Interesting. At current exchange rates, 860 million euro per ship excl R&D and fixed costs. 7% more expensive than the Horizon/Forbin/Doria in exchange for a more powerful phased array radar (but no SSMs, no CIWS, no ASW... and exactly the same SAMs).
I'd still invest in a Horizon which has better multi-purpose equipment. Though the larger Royal Navy can afford dedicated ships.

cheers

I'm not that knowledgeable regarding the Horizon. But do they also have electric drives etc. like the Type 45?

 

[contedicavour]

I'm not that knowledgeable regarding the Horizon. But do they also have electric drives etc. like the Type 45?

I'm not sure I understand your question.
If you are referring to electric engines for special manoeuvring (and as a support to the LM2500 GE/Avio turbines) yes they do have them.

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

I'm not sure I understand your question.
If you are referring to electric engines for special manoeuvring (and as a support to the LM2500 GE/Avio turbines) yes they do have them.

cheers

This is what I mean.

Drive time: firing up electric propulsion

By John Kenkel

Although electric drive systems have been in service on commercial vessels for a number of years, the requirements for more robust military missions have so far limited its use on military vessels.

The biggest hurdle for military vessels has been the size of currently available electric drive systems: there is simply no room aboard most surface combatants for a majority of the large and inefficient systems currently in operation.

There are four main technologies set to overcome these limitations and meet emerging military demand for electric drive systems. Two are currently operational and in use with modern military vessels and two are still in development to meet next-generation demands.

Advanced Induction Systems (AIS) are the furthest along in terms of development and variants are being integrated into the UK's Type 45 Daring-class frigates, as well as the USN's DDG-1000 (Flight 0) destroyer and Lewis and Clarke-class T-AKE replenishment ships.

The major competitor in terms of current technology is the Permanent Magnet Motor (PMM) concept, designed initially for small vessels and considered to be the most technically advanced electric drive system currently operational.

The DDG-1000 Flight 1 programme is driving the further development of advanced superconducting motor technology, with a partnership between American Surperconductors and Northrop Grumman pushing the High Temperature Superconductor (HTS) ship-propulsion motor, which is currently the subject of a phase of research-and-development trials with the USN.

The least developed, but potentially most advanced system is the Superconducting Homopolar Motor (SCHM) being developed by General Atomics. The SCHM is a DC motor, affording much reduced acoustic signatures, while still producing full torque at low speeds, making the technology ideal for submarines.

http://www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/news/jni/jni061017_1_n.shtml

 

[contedicavour]

Ah ok I see.
No, the Doria and Duilio do not have these innovative propulsion systems, only auxiliary electric engines that allow for manoeuvres in harbour or if an emergency requires the ship to rotate faster (there are also a couple mid-ships both starboard and portside).
AFAIK Fincantieri has installed a fully electrically powered propulsion system on one ship, it is the Elettra, a sort of spy ship / electronic information gathering ship that has just now become operational. It is extremely silent but its top speed is only 15 knots approx.

cheers

 

[RA1911]

Here's a new video of KNM F. Nansen in the harbour of my hometown Trondheim were they talk about and show pics of the LM2500 turbine and the rest of the propulsion system. It's in norwegian, but there are some nice shots. They say that the ship can do 24-25knots using only the LM2500.

link

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[JBodnar39]

Thanks for the infor everybody. One moe question and please forgive my American ignorance, but what is the typical exchange rate between the Euro and the USD?