True. Who's whispering in Trump's ear?
Venezuela Update
- Thread starter Feanor
- Start date
You miss the point.
Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
Then what is the economic harm here?
What is destabilized and who gets hurt and why?
UK's statement on the Venezuela situation, while stating the obvious (Maduro's government being despotic and possibly illegal) but silent on US actions, which likely contradicts the last few statements about commitment to the UN Charter (good luck with peaceful negotiated transition here).
www.gov.uk
The UK stands firmly with the people of Venezuela in their pursuit of a democratic future: UK statement at the UN Security Council
Statement by Ambassador Archie Young, UK Deputy Permanent Representative to the UN, at the UN Security Council meeting on Venezuela.
Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
Each is responsible for their own policies.
Why would the UK's stance on LOAC have any effect on the US?
Also IMO this statement is political-speak for "We really don't give a damn but journalists keep bothering us".
Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
The fun begins.
An assault on Caracas just happened.
Videos recorded ordnance dropping all around, and transport helicopters flying in formation.
There are also other reports of explosions near Caracas and other areas outside it.
An assault on Caracas just happened.
Videos recorded ordnance dropping all around, and transport helicopters flying in formation.
There are also other reports of explosions near Caracas and other areas outside it.
PHOTOGRAPHER
New Member
Trump on Truth Social claims that they have taken Maduro and his wife into custody and flown them out of the country.
Interesting times indeed.
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/115830428767897167
Interesting times indeed.
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/115830428767897167
It appears that Maduro has been captured.
Edit: TWZ has a running update and summary
www.twz.com
Edit: TWZ has a running update and summary
U.S. Has Captured Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro (Updated)
A major U.S. military operation, which included airstrikes and the use of special operations forces, resulted in the capture of Maduro.
www.twz.com
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Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
That's how you do a 3 hour operation. Looking at you, Russia.
Yup. This is how you do a special military operation.
Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
Sums up the entire public discourse on the topic right now:
personaldesas
Active Member
What’s the likeliest outcome now? Does the vice president take over and it’s business as usual?
rsemmes
Active Member
Why not? People around seem quite happy about SMOs, illegal invasions, killings and all that. The "friendly government" was already ready for Panama.
So, an US court is going to judge someone (a head of state) who has been kidnapped during a military operation? Anything about the poisonous tree? But, let's be honest, they were kidnapping people in the EU and flying them to be tortured in some foreign country.
A high horse indeed.
Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
Putting Maduro on trial is the nice cosmetics you put on a significant military action. So the objective must be something much more meaningful.
It seems very wasteful and therefore illogical to remove Maduro only to have a spiritual successor take his post long-term.
So what we could get is some negotiation with the new guy (or girl) who now knows what happens otherwise, probably to get the heavy crude oil into the US for processing and resale.
Or they could go all the way with putting Machado in charge.
Either way I assume it'll at least heavily involve actual public sentiment. As in, a full revolution would have to be done by the people. But it paves the way for them.
Another objective is to convert Venezuela from being a Chinese asset to an American asset.
If you can't beat China in quantity in its home turf, and soon you can't beat it in quality gap (it's narrowing), then you could come at its allies to isolate it.
One of China's biggest vulnerabilities is its high energy demand vs low local energy-producing raw materials. It's a net energy importer, whereas the US is a net exporter.
personaldesas
Active Member
Let me clarify: My question was what’s next for Venezuela.
rsemmes
Active Member
As my answer was.
Business as usual... Why not? The new one will be more... receptive, probably; or obedient.
One thing the US has been poor at in the past when they get involved with changing of governments or parts there of is the long term effects that they create. there thinking has in the past being focussed on the "now" and the long term outcome not being well thought out.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Quarterly results, American’s only long term view.
All depends on any insurrection I think, it's important to remember that yes mudaro was deeply unpopular,but his government and the one that preceded it was based on opposition to American dominance of the countrie. So alot will depend on how the people see this. Also worth noting that a occupation force would be quite susceptible to a group somewhat like the Rubicon in Ukraine if such a group or capacity exists. I mention this to illustrate how recent changes in warfare have given even a small but well equipped group the ability to hit way above there weight and I believe there has been ample time to prepare in this particular case
The coming weeks will be quite telling. That said I think it's objectively safe to assume a level of government involvement in this operation as well one can't just slowboat transports into the capital with active air defence unless there has been orders to let that happen. I mean a few manpads could have shut that convoy down and it's reasonable to assume that ther was at least that level of force in the capital, specifically around the airport and palace locations. The trump speech gave me flashbacks to that "mission accomplished" moment in the Iraq war. In that regard I was somewhat shocked he said America will be running the countrie and that the oil is now u.s property (or always was) and Venezuela will be paying for the war. This isn't a attempt to discuss the morality of those statements btw it's more on comment on what I believe may turn out to be a profoundly needles and provocative statement depending on just how receptive Venezuelans are to such a msg. All things considered if there is resistance that could definitely be fuel for the fire.
There is of course no indication that this is taking place but I do think it's to early to count the possibility out. Honestly I would be more shocked if there was no resistance there if there is one tho. For reasons stated and others
The coming weeks will be quite telling. That said I think it's objectively safe to assume a level of government involvement in this operation as well one can't just slowboat transports into the capital with active air defence unless there has been orders to let that happen. I mean a few manpads could have shut that convoy down and it's reasonable to assume that ther was at least that level of force in the capital, specifically around the airport and palace locations. The trump speech gave me flashbacks to that "mission accomplished" moment in the Iraq war. In that regard I was somewhat shocked he said America will be running the countrie and that the oil is now u.s property (or always was) and Venezuela will be paying for the war. This isn't a attempt to discuss the morality of those statements btw it's more on comment on what I believe may turn out to be a profoundly needles and provocative statement depending on just how receptive Venezuelans are to such a msg. All things considered if there is resistance that could definitely be fuel for the fire.
There is of course no indication that this is taking place but I do think it's to early to count the possibility out. Honestly I would be more shocked if there was no resistance there if there is one tho. For reasons stated and others
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