fretburner
Banned Member
Only that during that time, Taiwanese fighters weren't falling from the skies and China didn't launch their aircraft carrier and debuted their J-20! There's more urgency now than before...
US freezes arms sales to Taiwan
- Thread starter eaf-f16
- Start date
F-15 Eagle
New Member
Yeah maybe Taiwan should increase the overall size of its fighter fleet, start work on both a new fighter and buy new F-16 C/Ds.
Sampanviking
Banned Member
Again, another matter that has little significance outside the area of Political consideration and Chinese annoyance with US for interfering in its internal matters (and there is a question over how real much of the expressed outrage really is).
The reality is that the "balance of Power across the Straits" had already shifted by the end of the nineties and has now passed way beyond the grasp of Taiwan. The other truth is that despite the hubris on all sides, the arms sales have no real military significance and even if Taiwan was granted its whole wish list it will make no difference to the budgets or procurement priorities of the PLA or any other regional military. Especially as many of the provisions will not be delivered until the end of the decade and even the first F16 upgrade will not be ready until 2015.
China may not really mind that much either, as the deal will burnish Mr Ma's patriotic credentials and help ensure his re-election as President, something which of course Beijing is very keen to see happen.
The reality is that the "balance of Power across the Straits" had already shifted by the end of the nineties and has now passed way beyond the grasp of Taiwan. The other truth is that despite the hubris on all sides, the arms sales have no real military significance and even if Taiwan was granted its whole wish list it will make no difference to the budgets or procurement priorities of the PLA or any other regional military. Especially as many of the provisions will not be delivered until the end of the decade and even the first F16 upgrade will not be ready until 2015.
China may not really mind that much either, as the deal will burnish Mr Ma's patriotic credentials and help ensure his re-election as President, something which of course Beijing is very keen to see happen.
It's odd that they get JDAMs this time. I don't see JDAM as a defensive weapon.[/quote]
well that doesn't really sound solid. I think just about any weapon system can be defensive in nature. Even stand off weapons with precision strike capability depending on their use. For instance, if your nation were under attack by enemy air forces wouldn't it be useful to strike back at enemy airfields with JDAM's instead of unguided ordnance to better defend your nation? The best defense is a good offense and if you only have weapons that are meant to be used in a way that means waiting for the enemy to bring the fight to you then you may as well not bother fighting as you will loose the initiative and thus the war.
well that doesn't really sound solid. I think just about any weapon system can be defensive in nature. Even stand off weapons with precision strike capability depending on their use. For instance, if your nation were under attack by enemy air forces wouldn't it be useful to strike back at enemy airfields with JDAM's instead of unguided ordnance to better defend your nation? The best defense is a good offense and if you only have weapons that are meant to be used in a way that means waiting for the enemy to bring the fight to you then you may as well not bother fighting as you will loose the initiative and thus the war.
F-16 Debate Tests Balance of Power | AVIATION WEEK
Looks like the sale of 66 F16s isn't quite dead dead yet, could still happen. With so many people out of work in the US, losing a couple thousand jobs doesn't look good on anyone's resume for re-election.
Looks like the sale of 66 F16s isn't quite dead dead yet, could still happen. With so many people out of work in the US, losing a couple thousand jobs doesn't look good on anyone's resume for re-election.
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
I don't think Congress (i.e. in this case the Senate) will try to force Obama to make the sale. After all, even a minority of senators can fillibuster the bill. But certainly Romney should be banging on about this when he's in Texas and indeed on the TV with Obama. Obama weak on defence, weak on foreign policy, weak on manufacturing, weak on job creation, etc.
And if Obama has any sense he'll make an announcement for the sale of new F-16s during the election campaign.
From another perspective, I read somewhere else that Taiwan actually can't afford to buy new F-16s AND upgrade its older Vipers.. it doesn't have the money.
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
Oh, Taiwan has the money. The Chinese Nationalist Party just won't allocate it to the defence budget.
The ROCAF will soon have all 6 Hawkeyes upgraded to the same standard and better able to manage the battlespace in any future conflict. From what I've read, they come with CEC kit which will facilitate interoperability with USN
Defense News Mobile
Monday, December 19, 2011
7: 19 PM
Taiwan Receives Two U.S . Early Warning Aircraft
TAIPEI - Taiwan received two upgraded early warning aircraft from the United States on Dec. 18, the island's air force said, as part ofan arms deal that upset China-U .S. relations.
The arrival of the E-2 K aircraft in southern Kaohsiung city brings to four the number of such planes in Taiwan's air force, it said, after they were sent to the United States last year for upgrades.
Taiwan acquired four E- 2Ts in 1995 and added two E-2 K, an improved version of the Grumman Hawkeye series, in 2006.
A pair of E-2 Ts were transported to the United States for upgrading last month, as part of a $6 .5 billion arms sale agreed with
Taiwan in 2008, which also included advanced interceptor Patriot missiles, Apache attack helicopters and submarine- launched
missiles.
Defense News Mobile
Monday, December 19, 2011
7: 19 PM
Taiwan Receives Two U.S . Early Warning Aircraft
TAIPEI - Taiwan received two upgraded early warning aircraft from the United States on Dec. 18, the island's air force said, as part ofan arms deal that upset China-U .S. relations.
The arrival of the E-2 K aircraft in southern Kaohsiung city brings to four the number of such planes in Taiwan's air force, it said, after they were sent to the United States last year for upgrades.
Taiwan acquired four E- 2Ts in 1995 and added two E-2 K, an improved version of the Grumman Hawkeye series, in 2006.
A pair of E-2 Ts were transported to the United States for upgrading last month, as part of a $6 .5 billion arms sale agreed with
Taiwan in 2008, which also included advanced interceptor Patriot missiles, Apache attack helicopters and submarine- launched
missiles.
surpreme
Member
The PLAAF has more aircraft than the RoCAF but having the F-16's and the E-2's is huge different the F-16 that will be upgraded is capable of handle the J-10's. Giving the technology that on the E-2's the RoCAF is okay. The sale for F16C/D could still go though even dough it would be years before it be operational the F-16 they have now can handle the PLAAF. The F-16 has proven itself in battle and to be honest it can still hang with the big boys.
I understand that Taiwan can only fund one or the other and there have been suggestions that the ROCAF would be interested in the F-35B in lieu of brand new F-16s. It remains to be seen though if Washington would even consider providing them a 5Gen aircraft. Perhaps it makes sense to getthe new F-16s as a priority and work towards upgrading the older vipers down the road.
Obama hints at shift on Taiwan F-16 sale
Obama hints at shift on Taiwan F-16 sale
By Gavin Phipps and James Hardy 5/1/2012 The White House has hinted that it may proceed with the sale of Lockheed Martin F-16C/D fighter aircraft to the Republic of China Air Force (RoCAF) after acknowledging that Taiwan has "a legitimate need" for the aircraft. The apparent policy change appeared in a 27 April letter to Republican Senator John Cornyn, in which Robert Nabors, assistant to US President Barack Obama and director of the Office of Legislative Affairs, said the administration was giving "serious consideration" to the issue because of "the growing military threat to Taiwan". Taiwan first requested 66 F-16C/Ds in 2006 and made three more requests for price quotes before the September 2011 announcement that the Obama administration was not prepared to include the aircraft in a USD5.8 billion arms package. The package did include a USD5.3 billion upgrade programme for the island's fleet of 145 F-16A/Bs.
Obama hints at shift on Taiwan F-16 sale
Obama hints at shift on Taiwan F-16 sale
By Gavin Phipps and James Hardy 5/1/2012 The White House has hinted that it may proceed with the sale of Lockheed Martin F-16C/D fighter aircraft to the Republic of China Air Force (RoCAF) after acknowledging that Taiwan has "a legitimate need" for the aircraft. The apparent policy change appeared in a 27 April letter to Republican Senator John Cornyn, in which Robert Nabors, assistant to US President Barack Obama and director of the Office of Legislative Affairs, said the administration was giving "serious consideration" to the issue because of "the growing military threat to Taiwan". Taiwan first requested 66 F-16C/Ds in 2006 and made three more requests for price quotes before the September 2011 announcement that the Obama administration was not prepared to include the aircraft in a USD5.8 billion arms package. The package did include a USD5.3 billion upgrade programme for the island's fleet of 145 F-16A/Bs.
SteelTiger 177
New Member
For Obama to do something like this to Taiwan is bad given the current troubles with North Korea.China has been a serious headache for the U.S. in the Far East and Pacific area.He would shaft Taiwan as badly as he's shafted Israel in reguards to new weapons such as the F35,Aegis radar systems and enhancements to the ROCAFs force of E-2 Hawkeyes and maybe blocking any sales of P8 patrol planes to bloster the ROC navy,s asw capabilities.
You must seriously get bored ? did you notice hold old this thread is and how long ago the last post was ?
You do it continuously and it is really getting pretty boring, if you can't discuss and take part in current discussion and ad to that discussion, why bother ? Plenty of other sites out there that you can harass !
From a Chinese perspective, we can also say that the U.S. has been a serious headache for China.
Obama's shafted Israel?? American policy towards Israel - since Obama came to office - has not changed, Israel can buy almost anything it wants apart from nukes, is under the U.S. security umbrella and is the biggest recipient of U.S. aid........
Obama has to tread very carefully with regards to Taiwan as the U.S. does not want to offend the Chinese too much. Apart from economic reasons and stability in theAsia Pacific region, the U.S. badly needs China's help as a leverage over North Korea and as China's influence rises in other parts of the world, the U.S. will need China as a 'partner', despite the differences both countries may have.
How about you learn some history before making idiotic comments.
Taiwan has wanted an Aegis type system since the 90's and has been rejected on many grounds by multiple presidents on both sides. One of them is Chinese protests. Another one is that espionage is a major issue with the Taiwanese military, documents, techmanuals and other things have a habit of filtering back to China.
Another reason is that the flight 0 Tico's Tiawan wanted were quickly scavanged for usable parts and if the US gave them to Tiawan they would of been a logistical nightmare to maintain (there is a reason why for their last decade of service or so most of them were based in the Caribean).
The Tiawanese got the Kidds. Those are excellent, low milage AAW destroyers, they were the next best thing to an actual Aegis type ship that anyone was willing to sell to the Tiawanese.