United States Defense Thread

[Bob53]

Some big numbers in this acquisition …. When they say 700 HIMARs systems is that 700 new launch platforms? Or the Himars launch units themselves? Further down says 106k GMLRS rocket systems so assume they are the rockets themselves? Can anyone explain please?

Section 1244 (Temporary Authorizations Related To Ukraine and Other Matters) of the proposed 2023 NDAA released Tuesday calls for the procurement of:

• 864,000 155mm rounds, including XM1128, XM1113, M107, and M795 rounds;
• 2,050 155m Excalibur M982A1 rounds;
• 12,000 AGM–179 Joint Air-to-Ground Missiles (JAGM);
• 700 M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS);
• 1,700 MGM–140 Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMS);
• 2,600 Harpoons;
• 1,250 Naval Strike Missiles;
• 106,000 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket Systems (GMLRS);
• 3,850 PATRIOT Advanced Capability–3 (PAC–3) Missile Segment Enhancement (MSE) missiles;
• 5,600 FIM–92 Stingers;
• 28,300 FGM–148 Javelins;
• 5,100 AIM–120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);
• 2,250,000 Modular Artillery Charge System (MACS);
• 950 Long Range Anti-Ship Missiles (LRASM);
• 3,100 Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missiles (JASSM);
• 1,500 Standard Missle–6 Missiles (SM–6); and
• 5,100 Sidewinder Missiles (AIM–9X).

Spurred By Ukraine, Massive Munitions Restocking Plan In Proposed Pentagon Budget

The bill would replenish supplies of HIMARS, Stingers, Javelins and other items sent to Ukraine, and stock-up for future wars.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Redlands18]

Some big numbers in this acquisition …. When they say 700 HIMARs systems is that 700 new launch platforms? Or the Himars launch units themselves? Further down says 106k GMLRS rocket systems so assume they are the rockets themselves? Can anyone explain please?

Section 1244 (Temporary Authorizations Related To Ukraine and Other Matters) of the proposed 2023 NDAA released Tuesday calls for the procurement of:

• 864,000 155mm rounds, including XM1128, XM1113, M107, and M795 rounds;
• 2,050 155m Excalibur M982A1 rounds;
• 12,000 AGM–179 Joint Air-to-Ground Missiles (JAGM);
• 700 M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS);
• 1,700 MGM–140 Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMS);
• 2,600 Harpoons;
• 1,250 Naval Strike Missiles;
• 106,000 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket Systems (GMLRS);
• 3,850 PATRIOT Advanced Capability–3 (PAC–3) Missile Segment Enhancement (MSE) missiles;
• 5,600 FIM–92 Stingers;
• 28,300 FGM–148 Javelins;
• 5,100 AIM–120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);
• 2,250,000 Modular Artillery Charge System (MACS);
• 950 Long Range Anti-Ship Missiles (LRASM);
• 3,100 Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missiles (JASSM);
• 1,500 Standard Missle–6 Missiles (SM–6); and
• 5,100 Sidewinder Missiles (AIM–9X).

Spurred By Ukraine, Massive Munitions Restocking Plan In Proposed Pentagon Budget

The bill would replenish supplies of HIMARS, Stingers, Javelins and other items sent to Ukraine, and stock-up for future wars.

www.thedrive.com

HIMARS is basically the M-142 Launcher fitted to the 5t truck chassis of the US Army's FMTV Vehicles, suspect the vehicles last a lot longer than the launcher does.

 

[Bob53]

Just saw this one which is suggesting more launchers will be purchased. I wonder is some of those are for global orders like Poland (500) and Australia 40 odd ?

House, Senate defense authorizers agree to multi-year munitions buys - Breaking Defense

Lockheed Martin, Raytheon standout as potential beneficiaries of the legislation, with a variety of their programs on the weapons list. However, defense appropriators ultimately control the purse strings.

breakingdefense.com

 

[RubiconNZ]

I'm surprised at the number of Harpoons on order... could this be at least partially due to the capacity of the production line?

 

[ngatimozart]

I'm surprised at the number of Harpoons on order... could this be at least partially due to the capacity of the production line?

They have a lot of platforms that still use the Harpoon, such as subs using the UGM variant, so could be a combination of them replacing stocks issued to Ukraine and building up their own stocks.

 

[Bob53]

They have a lot of platforms that still use the Harpoon, such as subs using the UGM variant, so could be a combination of them replacing stocks issued to Ukraine and building up their own stocks.

I think only a small number is US vessels can use anything other than harpoon. I don’t think any of the Arleigh Burkes or Ticos can use NSM but also this may be also be for orders that may help cover global purchases..eg Taiwan for Harpoons…

 

[Redlands18]

I think only a small number is US vessels can use anything other than harpoon. I don’t think any of the Arleigh Burkes or Ticos can use NSM but also this may be also be for orders that may help cover global purchases..eg Taiwan for Harpoons…

It is only a matter of swapping out the Mk 141 Launchers for the NSM launchers, all above deck, there is no deck penetration. Very straight forward and the RAN is planning on doing the same thing.

 

[Vivendi]

This large multiyear acquisition -- over how many years will it be? I could not find that information in any of the news articles on this, including this one: Spurred By Ukraine, Massive Munitions Restocking Plan In Proposed Pentagon Budget

What do people think about the ratio of Excalibur to "other" 155mm? Is it surprising that "only" 2,050 Excalibur is in this multiyear order?

 

[swerve]

Just saw this one which is suggesting more launchers will be purchased. I wonder is some of those are for global orders like Poland (500) and Australia 40 odd ?

House, Senate defense authorizers agree to multi-year munitions buys - Breaking Defense

Lockheed Martin, Raytheon standout as potential beneficiaries of the legislation, with a variety of their programs on the weapons list. However, defense appropriators ultimately control the purse strings.

breakingdefense.com

The Poles seem to be scaling back their planned HIMARS numbers, because the Chunmoo works, can be delivered quickly, & costs less, especially when factoring in Korean willingness to fit Polish systems & put it on a Polish vehicle. Good for Polish industry & the foreign exchange balance They ordered 288 of them in October.
Hanwha signs contract to supply 288 Chunmoo Multiple Rocket Launcher Systems to Poland - EDR Magazine

Note that the first 24 K9 & 10 K2 have already been delivered.
First delivery of S. Korean heavy weapons comes to Poland

 

[ngatimozart]

The Poles seem to be scaling back their planned HIMARS numbers, because the Chunmoo works, can be delivered quickly, & costs less, especially when factoring in Korean willingness to fit Polish systems & put it on a Polish vehicle. Good for Polish industry & the foreign exchange balance They ordered 288 of them in October.
Hanwha signs contract to supply 288 Chunmoo Multiple Rocket Launcher Systems to Poland - EDR Magazine

Note that the first 24 K9 & 10 K2 have already been delivered.
First delivery of S. Korean heavy weapons comes to Poland

The Chunmoo is impressive and more flexible than HIMARS. It has 12 cells unlike the HIMAR six and the cells are in two pods of six, so you can have one pod with rockets and the other with missiles on the launch vehicle at the same time. I believe that Hanwha are working with the Poles and Kongsberg to integrate NSM into it.

It's one of the great things about the SKs that they are prepared to offer licensing and TOT to clients. It makes a lot of sense.

 

[Redlands18]

The Chunmoo is impressive and more flexible than HIMARS. It has 12 cells unlike the HIMAR six and the cells are in two pods of six, so you can have one pod with rockets and the other with missiles on the launch vehicle at the same time. I believe that Hanwha are working with the Poles and Kongsberg to integrate NSM into it.

It's one of the great things about the SKs that they are prepared to offer licensing and TOT to clients. It makes a lot of sense.

Chunmoo K-MLRS K239 Multiple Launch Rocket System South Korea data | South Korea Korean army armoured artillery UK | South Korea Korean army military equipment UK (armyrecognition.com)

The pods can also fit 20x130mm Rockets or 6x227mm or 6x239mm.

 

[ngatimozart]

Chunmoo K-MLRS K239 Multiple Launch Rocket System South Korea data | South Korea Korean army armoured artillery UK | South Korea Korean army military equipment UK (armyrecognition.com)

The pods can also fit 20x130mm Rockets or 6x227mm or 6x239mm.

Yep, I have been taking an interest in SK equip lately. The Poles and that are going their because they can't wait for the US to spool up production and US military will have first priority. Also there are less complications acquiring SK weapons systems.

 

[Redlands18]

Yep, I have been taking an interest in SK equip lately. The Poles and that are going their because they can't wait for the US to spool up production and US military will have first priority. Also there are less complications acquiring SK weapons systems.

The South Koreans are still relative newcomers to the International Defence market (at least on a large scale), their companies are hungry for orders and are being backed by a supportive government.

 

[FormerDirtDart]

The Chunmoo is impressive and more flexible than HIMARS. It has 12 cells unlike the HIMAR six and the cells are in two pods of six, so you can have one pod with rockets and the other with missiles on the launch vehicle at the same time. I believe that Hanwha are working with the Poles and Kongsberg to integrate NSM into it.

It's one of the great things about the SKs that they are prepared to offer licensing and TOT to clients. It makes a lot of sense.

Chunmoo is also twice as heavy as HIMARS, weighing in on par with the tracked M270 MLRS. So it's mobility may be seriously impacted compared to HIMARS. Not saying the Chunmoo isn't an intriguing system with it's variety if weapon choices.

 

[Bob53]

It is only a matter of swapping out the Mk 141 Launchers for the NSM launchers, all above deck, there is no deck penetration. Very straight forward and the RAN is planning on doing the same thing.

No argument but yet to be done so they continue to order harpoons I guess.

 

[swerve]

Chunmoo is also twice as heavy as HIMARS, weighing in on par with the tracked M270 MLRS. So it's mobility may be seriously impacted compared to HIMARS. Not saying the Chunmoo isn't an intriguing system with it's variety if weapon choices.

Sounds like an argument for buying both, or a version of Chunmoo with one pod of six.

 

[alexsa]

It is only a matter of swapping out the Mk 141 Launchers for the NSM launchers, all above deck, there is no deck penetration. Very straight forward and the RAN is planning on doing the same thing.

Not strictly that simple as the missile also needs to be integrated into the ships combat system (as an example the F-35 needs the block 4 upgrade to use a broader range of missiles …. Same goes for combat systems).

This may not be a quick fix for the ships where you have different iterations of the combat system.

There is also the fact that a lot of aircraft are currently configures for Harpoon so there is still a need there. It appears that ‘possibly’a considerable number of missiles have been sent to Ukraine and this order may be to fill war stocks pending the introduction of NSM and other missile types.

 

[John Fedup]

There has been a number of attacks on electric substations, in particular HV transformers. The attackers are unknown but could be foreign or domestic. As the attachment points out the US lacks domestic production and lead times are long for replacement. A large solar event like the 1859 event would present a massive problem for the US and other regions. As the article points out, investing in local production would only be a fraction of the defence budget and offers important security which few other programs can match on a cost benefit ratio.

America Is on the Verge of a Power Grid Crisis

A high-voltage transformer shortage leaves parts of America at risk of being left without power for years.

nationalinterest.org

 

[ngatimozart]

There has been a number of attacks on electric substations, in particular HV transformers. The attackers are unknown but could be foreign or domestic. As the attachment points out the US lacks domestic production and lead times are long for replacement. A large solar event like the 1859 event would present a massive problem for the US and other regions. As the article points out, investing in local production would only be a fraction of the defence budget and offers important security which few other programs can match on a cost benefit ratio.

America Is on the Verge of a Power Grid Crisis

A high-voltage transformer shortage leaves parts of America at risk of being left without power for years.

nationalinterest.org

Russian supporters amongst the US far right? Lavrov has threatened action against nations supporting Ukraine.

Lavrov warned further Western support for Ukraine could lead to direct confrontation.​

​

“We keep warning our adversaries in the West about the dangers of their course to escalate the Ukrainian crisis,” he said, adding that “the risk that the situation could spin out of control remains high.”​

“The strategic goal of the U.S. and its NATO allies is to win a victory over Russia on the battlefield to significantly weaken or even destroy our country,” he said. https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...94cea0-85e2-11ed-b5ac-411280b122ef_story.html​

Or it could be just far right nutters grumpy because three of the Oathkeepers are doing long stretches (time) in the jail.

 

[Todjaeger]

Russian supporters amongst the US far right? Lavrov has threatened action against nations supporting Ukraine.

Lavrov warned further Western support for Ukraine could lead to direct confrontation.​

​

“We keep warning our adversaries in the West about the dangers of their course to escalate the Ukrainian crisis,” he said, adding that “the risk that the situation could spin out of control remains high.”​

“The strategic goal of the U.S. and its NATO allies is to win a victory over Russia on the battlefield to significantly weaken or even destroy our country,” he said. https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...94cea0-85e2-11ed-b5ac-411280b122ef_story.html​

Or it could be just far right nutters grumpy because three of the Oathkeepers are doing long stretches (time) in the jail.

Unfortunately there has been talking among certain segments of US society suggesting deliberately targeting portions of the power grid for years. The premise being that disrupting the power grid would negatively impact both gov't and the rest of US society. I would need to do a bit of digging to see if I could determine when the idea of targeting substations first started circulating but I would not be at all surprised if the idea dates back to the 90's or earlier.

I do not doubt that Russia and/or other US adversaries would take as much advantage as they could from existing US extremist movements, but it is unfortunately reality in that there are quite a few such movements, many quite similar, that operate in the US and/or Canada.

TBH though sometimes these movements can lead to funny moments for 'normal' people. I recall watching a court hearing in a Crown court (in Canada) where a so-called 'sovereign citizen' attempted to use some of the legalese reasoning that sovereign citizens often attempt in US courts. It went about as well as people might think.