Turkey to buy 30 Blk 52 + F-16 fighting falcons....

T

TomBombadil

New Member
Turkey to buy 30 Blk 52 + F-16 fighting falcons. Turkey is negotiating with American Lockheed Martin for buying 30 f-16 worth 1.5 Milliard $. Turkey cancels his contract with Israel for modernising of 48 f-4 s (The first part of 54 f-4 s are being currently upgraded). This will be the first party of a 10 milliard $ avi. defence project. the Eurofighter alliance and the f-35 concortium are still fighting over the rest 8.5 milliards.
Best Regards
 
B

beleg

New Member
Dear TomBombadil,
The first phase of F-4-2020 modernisation has already been completed for a few years. The second batch is whose main contractor was TAI (probably with IAI/Aselsan as sub-contractor) is the one which is being cancelled.

The F-16s are an urgent need because ;

1-Second batch of F-4 modernisation is not feasible due to the old age of the platforms (500mio$+ for 48 planes)
2-There wont be enough F-16s to supply the current sqs. once the CCIP commences in 2009 and beyond. (There are already ~30 attrition since first introduction to service)
 
A

ajay_ijn

New Member
is Turkey having only one enemy, Greece.
They seem to spend a lot on defence??

And moreover Even Greece has US origin Planes.
So does that give any problems, if we have same plane on both sides.
 
T

TomBombadil

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
The Problem of having the same planes....

Firstly, i dont think that Turkey´s only enemy is Greece. Its obvious that Turkey has a great jeopolitical importance. So they have a lot of people around who will gain from their losses.

Secondly, Turkey and Greece haven´t got the same amount of Planes. Turkey´s planes and arsenal are far greater i think. And the difference is not made by the quantity, but the quality. Turkey´s Pilots are much more qualified then their Greek equals and have more experience due to their hot contact to PKK Militias.

I think that the quarrel between Turkey and Greece wont end up with a war, they are well aware of the situation surrounding them and they are both member of Nato. But in a war, Turkey would have the upper hand, at least in the matters of aviation...
What do u think?

Best regards.
 
A

ajay_ijn

New Member
Actually i am ignorant about Turkey.
But Turkey is one nation, along with Saudi and UAE who purchase western weapons on a Rampage.

Especially the recent saudi shopping spree.
 
F

fantasma

New Member
TomBombadil said:
Firstly, i dont think that Turkey´s only enemy is Greece. Its obvious that Turkey has a great jeopolitical importance. So they have a lot of people around who will gain from their losses.

Secondly, Turkey and Greece haven´t got the same amount of Planes. Turkey´s planes and arsenal are far greater i think. And the difference is not made by the quantity, but the quality. Turkey´s Pilots are much more qualified then their Greek equals and have more experience due to their hot contact to PKK Militias.

I think that the quarrel between Turkey and Greece wont end up with a war, they are well aware of the situation surrounding them and they are both member of Nato. But in a war, Turkey would have the upper hand, at least in the matters of aviation...
What do u think?
TomBombadil Turkey for various of reasons mostly cause of her Ottomans Empire past has many nations around her that if not enemies are very cautious towards Turkey.
As for the comparison between the two airforces for the time being there is a numerical advantage on the turkish side and a greek advantage on quality terms
Turkey: 215 f16 various blk's (the most modern are 80 blk 50) 54 F4-E 2020 terminator that have the edge of their capabilities for air strike role (think that lacks the ability of launching AIM-120 for BVR)
Greece on the other side has 134 F16s (32 blk 30, 40 blk 50, 59 blk 52+), 25 Mirage 2000-5 21 Mirage 2000, 35 F-4 PI 2000.
2009 Greece will have operational another batch of 30 F16 blk 52+ meaning that in quantity terms almost equal. Turkey 215 F16 + 54 f4-E 2020 / Greece 160 f16s + 46 Mirage (25 Mirage 2000-5), + 35 F-4E PI 2000
Until Turkey has the f16s upgraded to CCIP standard (2011) and deliveries of the latest batch blk 52+ Greece has the quality advantage. F16 blk 52+ operate the superior radar APG-68(V9) combining with JHMCS and IRIS-T is a deadly opponent to jets do not opporate JHMCS like the turkish one's until 2011.
Do not forget the Mirage 2000-5 is a completely different airframe in avionics than his predecessor Mirage 2000 EQUIPPED with MICA for BVR and Scalp for striking targets to deep inland (over 250 NM range)
As for the training of the pilots i think noone can seriously doubt about the abilities of the Hellenic's Airforce Pilots (turkish pilots should thank their greek coleagues for their training the last 30 years over Aegean skies and there seems to be an improvement to their capabilities, joking their training starts to give tough pilots but still not as good as their greek colleagues). Do not forget Greek Airforce is in a status of constant "war" last 30 years with readiness of 15' 10' 5' 2' minutes in order to intercept jets that harassing Greek FIR and greek airspace. Interceptions and dogfights over Aegean skies is a daily routin.
Click to expand...
 
B

beleg

New Member
Turkey and Greece have quite similar airforces, in terms of both quality and quantity. Both airforces are have the among the best pilots in NATO due to the constant training they make against each other over Aegean.

However it is a fact that Turkish Airforce has a solid training cycle thanks to the F-5-2000 LIFT trainers which make it easier for fighter pilots to adapt to F-16s and Anatolian Eagle EW training range which allows the pilots to train against most of the SAMs available in the market. Soon SA-10 , SA-15 , SA-11 and I-HAWK threat generators will be acquired and integrated into the training range.

Turkish Airforce is rarely used against terrorists, most of the CAS is given by AH-1 attack helicopters and UH-60s with 7.62 machine guns , thus we cant talk about any training in that area.
 
B

beleg

New Member
fantasma,
what is the base of your statement that prooves any given Greek pilot is better trained than a Turkish coleague.

The things you say in your post works for both sides. Greece lacks the training ranges and training aircraft to properly train a pilot to fly in an advanced fighter airplane like F-16 or Mirage2000.

Imho a rookie Turkish F-16 pilot is more suited to fly an F-16 and more aware of the planes abilites than an average Greek one due to te extensive LIFT training they receive in the F-5 2000 sq. in Konya.
 
F

fantasma

New Member
There is a paradox in the training of the greek pilot rookies. Thus the airforce has a demand for about 45 new training jets.
T6 Texan II // T2 C/E BUCKEYE // f16s/Mirage. T2 needs to be replaced the soonest possible. T6 Texan II base on Pilatus PC-9 one engine turboprop and a very advanced HUD and continuing training with T-2 a two engine but a 60ys design and in service with EPA since 76'.
Current program is Initial stage: 1st year 35hrs flight with Texan
Basic Stage: 2nd year 85 hrs flight with Texan
Advanced Stage: 3rd year 100 hrs flight with T-2
Operational stage: 4rth year 80 hrs flight
 
U

uaf

New Member
Ok so
Pakistan buying 36 new F-16s ( with additional equipment )
Taiwan is going to buy 66 F-16s
Turkey is eyeing on 30 of them

Guys how much time will it take for Lockheed Martin to deliver them , I think the production line will certainly now go beyond 2010 , the actual target was 2008/2010 , so is that mean F-35 project is going to be delayed ??????

I know F-16 are made in Turkey under License but still and I wonder which nation will be the first to get hands on Falcons (F-16)

http://www.f-16.net/news_article1905.html
 
B

beleg

New Member
Thank you fantasma,
I am very well aware of the complex training procedure of Greek Airforce pilots. The situation for Turkish Airforce was also problematic until F-5s started to train the F-16 pilots with an easier to handle, cheaper to operate airplane. Thats the main reason behind my belief.

Turkey cannot assemble F-16s anymore.
 
B

beleg

New Member
Most of the hardware used in producing F-16 parts were sent to USA after completing the Egyptian F-16s as far as i know.
 
SABRE

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
ajay_ijn said:
is Turkey having only one enemy, Greece.
They seem to spend a lot on defence??

And moreover Even Greece has US origin Planes.
So does that give any problems, if we have same plane on both sides.
Click to expand...
Well as in a "proper enemy", Greece is the only one. However, Turkey has had issues with other countries at its borders i.e. Syeria & Iran. Plus they have trouble with Kurds, including the ones which are not residents of their controlled parts.
 
C

contedicavour

New Member
SABRE said:
Well as in a "proper enemy", Greece is the only one. However, Turkey has had issues with other countries at its borders i.e. Syeria & Iran. Plus they have trouble with Kurds, including the ones which are not residents of their controlled parts.
Click to expand...
Delicate terrain here... for me Turkey is a modern democracy with a moderate Muslim governing party, NATO membership and potential EU membership around 2010-2015. As such, I just hope that eventually Greece will be considered just another European neighbor, and that "potential enemies" will include only dictatorial regimes, extremist regimes, and the like, so obviously NOT Greece...
I have read a lot about the recent history of Turkish-Greek relations, but one day this will have to remain history and the 2 countries will look at the future instead of the past...

good luck.... and cheers
 
F

fantasma

New Member
In case Turkey signs contract for the 30 F16s blk 52 until the end of the current year when deliveries will take place though two batches 36 for Pakistan and 66 for Taiwan are to be delivered before those of Turkeys?? Greece's f16s will all be delivered until 3rd quarter of 2009.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top