The Waffen SS' tactics, training & skill at arms...

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Eeshaan

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Please keep it civil. Let us keep the discussion here constructive. No need for a political hare-fest here.

I have been reading about the Waffen SS' prformance in battle against the Russians & Soviet partisans, and most importantly the Viet Minh during France's final years as a colonial power.

I must say that I am very impressed by what I read. These soldiers were a very professional group of men, who's prime concern was completing their objectives in the most efficient manner & never really had the time for, nor cared about the Nazi party's hatred of other supposedly inferior races.

Alot of the SS in charge of concentration camps and the genocides were actually assigned those posts as a form of punishment, where they had the choice to either serve in those camps, or get shot by their commanding officers for disobedience. The hatred should be ( rightfully so ) directed at the political arm of the Nazi party and the higher ups in the SS like Heinrich Himmler, not the "Waffen" SS.

What is interesting is their effectiveness as soldiers. The thing that makes them an "Elite" unit and differentiates them from other nations' troops, is that they were not just warriors, but warrior-thinkers.

The Wehrmacht encouraged it's soldiers to be able to think on their feet, to be more than just mindless automatons who would charge at the enemy at the order of their superiors without a second thought. Their soldiers were given the freedom to use their own brain to act against their superiors' orders if required, to fullfill their objectives more efficiently and at minimal cost of human lives.

If you read the book "Sun Tzu and The Art of Modern Warfare" by Mark Mcneilly, he says that the German soldier, during WWII was 3 times as effective as a Soviet soldier & 1.4 times more effective than a British or American soldier. Quite a sobering thoght for those who always considered Hitler's army to be nothing but a bunch of murdering lunatics. it is also interesting to note that by German law, the wehrmacht's soldiers were not allowed to have affilliation with any political party. Not in the case with the Waffen SS, but the armed SS did remain neutral towards the extreme parts of the nazi philosophy that their superiors had.

I would highly recommend reading the book I mentioned above, in addition to the Devil's Guard books by George R.Elford & Eric Meyer. They shed a whole new light on these supposed barbarian psychopaths...

The SS troopers who survived the post-war vengance at the hands of the Allies & soviets ended up fighting for the French in Indochina. Their performance was exemplary, as they were able to do alot more damage than they took from the Viet Minh, were actually able to figure the enemy out, and actually hurt it, unlike the French generals & Gen. Westmoreland. All due to their great resoursefullness & the ability to think like the enemy did.

The ability to think like one's enemy & beat him at his own game is what made them experts in counterinsurgency & guerrilla tactics. In both Vietnam & while fighting the Partisans in USSR.

I was wondering if anyone could share any knowledge on their training, psychology, tactics, strategies etc. of the SS and other elite german regiments during WWII....
 

Eeshaan

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P.S. There are a few very good, unbiased documentaries that focus less on the Holocaust and more on the skill & innovation of the German Wehrmacht and SS. They can be found on Youtube.
 

Bonza

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Staff member
No, no, no. It should be very obvious to you why this thread is getting locked. You say you want a constructive discussion, but then you begin by effectively excusing the SS for actions you don't agree with, and why? Because you find their martial strength admirable? You refer to "those who always considered Hitler's army to be nothing but a bunch of murdering lunatics" - I don't think I've ever heard anyone seriously interested in the subject refer to them as any such thing. But what you completely fail to acknowledge is the fact that the things you are describing - military capability and the capacity for wrongdoing - ARE IN NO WAY MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. They should be remembered for what they did - ALL of what they did. For the purposes of discussion one could separate military and moral actions, but you clearly aren't interested in doing that, otherwise you wouldn't have spent several paragraphs explaining why soldiers in the SS weren't responsible for all the awful things that somehow happened before their eyes.

There is a wide range of human behaviour, and I'm sure there were members of the Waffen SS who were more or less political than their peers. And of course I understand how one could have an interest in the topic. But you yourself have politicised the topic (the thing you said you wanted to avoid) by saying things like the "armed SS remained politically neutral", and "alot of the SS in charge of concentration camps and the genocides were actually assigned those posts as a form of punishment, where they had the choice to either serve in those camps, or get shot by their commanding officers for disobedience"... you're talking about GENOCIDE, for god's sake... don't let martial prowess blind you to that reality. Regardless of what choices they had to make to get there, they were the trigger pullers. Don't make excuses for them. For that reason the thread is closed, and I'd advise you re-think your approach to the topic if you're looking for a truly apolitical discussion.
 
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