The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[rsemmes]

I am a human. "Bigotery" is the very core how our species functions. We observe, see patterns and act according.

Evry single Interactions with russians i had was between negative and strong negative.

- bad behavior of russias tourists in spain

- theft of spains gold by russia

- support of terror groups in Spain by russia

- very bad travel for me in Irkutsk

- war in Ukraine

- sabotage of european infrastructure

Showing off how proud you are of your own ignorance.

-You had a Russian girlfriend?
-Have you been interacting with British tourists? Have you been to Magaluf? How many tourists?
-"Rusia es culpable": Russia is guilty. You seem to be repeating the propaganda of the Spanish dictatorship. No, that gold was payment (already posted), like the gold that went to France. The traitors (military insurrection is treason) paid Germany and Italy too, but not with gold.
-Your fantasy about Russia supporting those terrorist: "Aguirre said"; already posted.
-You had one bad experience in one city. And one bad girlfriend(~boyfriend, that would be also irrelevant) too?
-Only that war? You are happy with every other war?
-You mean Ukraine blowing up the Nordstream?

You mentioned something about "servicemen in your family", maybe you have been so perfectly indoctrinated that you don't know anything else. Worse, you do not want to know anything else.

 

[personaldesas]

Yes of course your logic is impeccable, silly me

I’m not sure how that reply even remotely relates to what I wrote. But yeah, strawmanning and arguing against imagined points nobody made, that is indeed silly.

 

[rsemmes]

arguing against imagined points nobody made

And practised repeatedly, I would argue.

 

[swerve]

Canada Real/Madrid, 3000 viviendas/Sevilla, La Corta/Malaga, El Raval/Barcelona, Los Mateos y las Seiscientas/Cartagena... your city.
But you were once to Irkust, have you been in those neighbourhoods too? The Bronx, Croydon? Do you think everything in Paris is like La Defense?

Why don't you go around "Los Mateos/Seiscientas" taking pictures and interviewing people and tell us about their prospects in life?

Croydon? Not exactly a hellhole. I can't help wondering what your criteria for selection are. It has a little less crime than the average for London, which makes it probably safer than anywhere in Russia. Note that Russia has several times the murder rate of the UK (or Spain) & also high rates of other crimes, high rates of road deaths, considerably lower life expectancy . . . .

P.S. I think I've just found the reason for the very strange idea that Croydon is a ghastly place - a series of deepfake videos purporting to show things going on in Croydon. Why fake AI videos of UK urban decline are taking over social media

To anyone who's fallen for them: shame on you!

 

[Beltrami2005]

Showing off how proud you are of your own ignorance.

-You had a Russian girlfriend?
-Have you been interacting with British tourists? Have you been to Magaluf? How many tourists?
-"Rusia es culpable": Russia is guilty. You seem to be repeating the propaganda of the Spanish dictatorship. No, that gold was payment (already posted), like the gold that went to France. The traitors (military insurrection is treason) paid Germany and Italy too, but not with gold.
-Your fantasy about Russia supporting those terrorist: "Aguirre said"; already posted.
-You had one bad experience in one city. And one bad girlfriend(~boyfriend, that would be also irrelevant) too?
-Only that war? You are happy with every other war?
-You mean Ukraine blowing up the Nordstream?

You mentioned something about "servicemen in your family", maybe you have been so perfectly indoctrinated that you don't know anything else. Worse, you do not want to know anything else.

I had no russian girlfriend xD I know a russian girl who has no high opinion about Russia either to say it diplomatic. I have no doubt good russians exist. There are people who oppose putinism. There are those that spy for Ukraine, that help to derail trains, bring information and so on. Those i respect, because they do this against a murderous regime. But they are a small minority.

This war goes now 4 years and is incredible tiresome. It has brought nothing but misery for Ukraine and also for Russia. It has completly destroyed relations between Europe and Russia to a point that they will remain shattered for decades to come. It has disrupted travel, markets and energy.

There is absolute nothing positive on this war.

And btw i saw a "trench warfare video"... This war has devolved into WW I trench warefare...

I really want to ask the big russia friends here...if they dont see what a shitshow this is?

 

[personaldesas]

Croydon? Not exactly a hellhole. I can't help wondering what your criteria for selection are. It has a little less crime than the average for London, which makes it probably safer than anywhere in Russia. Note that Russia has several times the murder rate of the UK (or Spain) & also high rates of other crimes, high rates of road deaths, considerably lower life expectancy . . . .

I know a few of these neighborhoods firsthand, and I honestly think those YouTube videos suggesting you’re basically at risk of being murdered just by stepping into them are hugely exaggerated. Just don’t act like a loud, obnoxious tourist, behave reasonably, and you’ll most likely be fine.

That said, broader comparisons of Russia about crime rates and other things probably belong in the Russia thread rather than the Ukraine war thread.

 

[Feanor]

Not sure if you understand what you are writing, because you are accepting to be a racist. Europeans are supposed to be enlightened, human rights and all that.

It is perfectly fine and reasonable when one describe current Russian actions as despicable and deporable, but I would draw the line at passing judgment on an entire culture and race.

I would bear in mind his earlier statements about the Spanish colonial mines and slavery practices in the new world. The definitions of civilization and barbarism he's using are very peculiar, to say the least.

 

[personaldesas]

I would bear in mind his earlier statements about the Spanish colonial mines and slavery practices in the new world. The definitions of civilization and barbarism he's using are very peculiar, to say the least.

I’m genuinely curious where Catalanism would fall within his spectrum of barbarism

 

[John Fedup]

I would bear in mind his earlier statements about the Spanish colonial mines and slavery practices in the new world. The definitions of civilization and barbarism he's using are very peculiar, to say the least.

…and getting tiresome, wrong thread, wrong content, and excessively long posts, albeit there are other posters with typing ( plus cut and paste content) diarrhea.

 

[rsemmes]

Croydon? Not exactly a hellhole. I can't help wondering what your criteria for selection are. It has a little less crime than the average for London, which makes it probably safer than anywhere in Russia. Note that Russia has several times the murder rate of the UK (or Spain) & also high rates of other crimes, high rates of road deaths, considerably lower life expectancy . . . .

I cannot agree... because I don't know if I have actually be in Croydon, even if I have been to London a few times. What I do know is that in every city and in every country you are going to find "shitholes" and a quick search provided "Croydon".

That is my point, a quick search and Beltrami2005 is qualified to tell the world how the US government works.
Is Russia the best country in the world to live in? No. Is UK? If I have give an opinion based in what I see in the city where I am living now... Far from that, and I haven't been visiting any "interesting" neighbourhoods.
I don't know about the "Seiscientas", but I know about "La Corta" and other places in Malaga (I was working in Malaga's airport). So, Malaga is a shithole and Spain is a shithole; easy, isn't it? I am not that stupid, not me, anyway.
(What is the shootings rate in US?)

Can we leave urbanism now?

 

[rsemmes]

And btw i saw a "trench warfare video"... This war has devolved into WW I trench warefare...

Good Lord!

You saw one video. Do you know of any war without trenches?
Do you want to compare this war to the war in Iraq, that was not a peer to peer war and lasted... How many battle for Fallujah? When did the killings stop?

 

[John Fedup]

Good Lord!

You saw one video. Do you know of any war without trenches?
Do you want to compare this war to the war in Iraq, that was not a peer to peer war and lasted... How many battle for Fallujah? When did the killings stop?

IIRC, the Iran- Iraq war was a significant trench warfare scenario. Without significant anti-drone countermeasures perhaps armoured tunnels will be the next new tool.

 

[Feanor]

IIRC, the Iran- Iraq war was a significant trench warfare scenario. Without significant anti-drone countermeasures perhaps armoured tunnels will be the next new tool.

Not necessarily. One of the issues is that if you staff positions with enough people to fully hold them, you become more vulnerable to artillery strikes. And if you keep troop densities low, the enemy will infiltrate your covered positions. And even the anti-drone net corridors aren't truly safe. They help, but we have many videos, from both sides of their drones operating from inside the enemies' net corridor.

 

[John Fedup]

Not necessarily. One of the issues is that if you staff positions with enough people to fully hold them, you become more vulnerable to artillery strikes. And if you keep troop densities low, the enemy will infiltrate your covered positions. And even the anti-drone net corridors aren't truly safe. They help, but we have many videos, from both sides of their drones operating from inside the enemies' net corridor.

Agree and without significant new anti-drone tools, infantry are in a $hit situation.

 

[Feanor]

Agree and without significant new anti-drone tools, infantry are in a $hit situation.

What I find very interesting is that infantry actually has the flexibility to operate in this drone-infested battlefield. Armored vehicles are in many cases more vulnerable than dismounted infantry. Between anti-drone pickets likely becoming the norm for warfare moving forward, and the ability of infantry to use cover to avoid drones, it's infantry that's moving the front line in Ukraine, with vehicles being in a deeply secondary role. Effectively mechanized assaults are now a niche option rather than the main approach. And even when assaults are mechanized, vehicles are used to quickly cross an area, and often rapidly retreat after dropping off the infantry elements. And the difference between an M1 Abrams and a T-55 in terms of surviving drone isn't that big. Sure the T-55 might burn after a couple of drones, and we've seen an M1 eat 17 drones before catching fire. But to the best of my knowledge the record for surviving drone strikes is a Russian assault shed from the 114th MRBde that ate 60 drones before hitting a landmine. In other words a T-55 based tank shed is potentially more survivable than a regular M1 Abrams even with ERA coverage. This isn't an argument in favor of the T-55, but instead it suggests that neither vehicle is well suited to the realities of this war.

Personally I'm actually surprised that Russia hasn't opted for some sort of H-APC with dreadlock armor as the standard, and near-MBT protection levels underneath. Russian troops are actually converting damaged tanks into these themselves using repair facilities. I'm also curious as to why Russia hasn't attempted to install a drone-defense station on individual armored vehicles. We've seen Russian forces testing anti-drone HMG setups with an EO targeting setup. It would make so much sense to stick one on the back of a T-62 turret and see if it can effectively deal with FPV drones. Yet this hasn't even been attempted.

 

[swerve]

I know a few of these neighborhoods firsthand, and I honestly think those YouTube videos suggesting you’re basically at risk of being murdered just by stepping into them are hugely exaggerated. Just don’t act like a loud, obnoxious tourist, behave reasonably, and you’ll most likely be fine.

Indeed.

I remember walking through Paris one night with my girlfriend (my wife, now) & wandering through a busy area with a lot of North African restaurants, some halal butchers, etc. She's always been very cautious, but neither of us sensed anything threatening about the the neighbourhood. Shopkeepers were friendly, all sorts of people were wandering through, shopping, drinking in cafes, etc., families were going out for dinner . . . . It was a bit like a larger scale version of an area 500 metres from our house, though that's more North Indian than North African.

We passed a few large brightly lit shopfronts in an otherwise dark street, with a big group of black men standing around outside them drinking beer & chatting. When we got close, the black blokes stepped aside for us, unasked, with smiles, & saying "de rien" to our "merci". The brightly lit shops turned out to be African hairdressers, full of women having their hair done, chatting, & drinking tea, while their children played. All the hairdressers had play areas. It was nice. Families socialising, everyone good-humoured & relaxed.

Goutte d'or.

I later read that some right-wing Americans were calling it a no-go area, not safe for non-Muslims, where Islamist gangs enforce Sharia law.

 

[rsemmes]

IIRC, the Iran- Iraq war was a significant trench warfare scenario. Without significant anti-drone countermeasures perhaps armoured tunnels will be the next new tool.

Sorry, not the Iran-Iraq war, that was a p2p war. US ran all over Iraq (like Russia in 2022) and then wasn't unable (unwilling?) to control the country; that's why I mentioned Fallujah.
The context was different too, an insurgency war, there was no army to fight the US and no chance to fight it successfully in a conventional war.

Even during the Six Day War Israel had to clear a lot of trenches.

 

[Hoover]

What I find very interesting is that infantry actually has the flexibility to operate in this drone-infested battlefield. Armored vehicles are in many cases more vulnerable than dismounted infantry. Between anti-drone pickets likely becoming the norm for warfare moving forward, and the ability of infantry to use cover to avoid drones, it's infantry that's moving the front line in Ukraine, with vehicles being in a deeply secondary role. Effectively mechanized assaults are now a niche option rather than the main approach. And even when assaults are mechanized, vehicles are used to quickly cross an area, and often rapidly retreat after dropping off the infantry elements. And the difference between an M1 Abrams and a T-55 in terms of surviving drone isn't that big. Sure the T-55 might burn after a couple of drones, and we've seen an M1 eat 17 drones before catching fire. But to the best of my knowledge the record for surviving drone strikes is a Russian assault shed from the 114th MRBde that ate 60 drones before hitting a landmine. In other words a T-55 based tank shed is potentially more survivable than a regular M1 Abrams even with ERA coverage. This isn't an argument in favor of the T-55, but instead it suggests that neither vehicle is well suited to the realities of this war.

Personally I'm actually surprised that Russia hasn't opted for some sort of H-APC with dreadlock armor as the standard, and near-MBT protection levels underneath. Russian troops are actually converting damaged tanks into these themselves using repair facilities. I'm also curious as to why Russia hasn't attempted to install a drone-defense station on individual armored vehicles. We've seen Russian forces testing anti-drone HMG setups with an EO targeting setup. It would make so much sense to stick one on the back of a T-62 turret and see if it can effectively deal with FPV drones. Yet this hasn't even been attempted.

You are right. Single soldiers are a less important target (on both sides). So during an attack/movement a soldier has more survival chances if moving alone, not in larger files or inside a vehicle.
After the impressive Ukrainian drone show during the Nato excercise in 2025 they said that commonly in a 10m² area 100 FPV Drones are in air at a time if no intense combat situation.
The M1/Leopard 2 have a better protection for the crews, but they are vulnerable to drones, of course. The Russian Turtle tanks are better protected to drones, but they are nearly useless for their intended use. But on the other hand it doesn´t care because tank to tank combat is that rare todays it can be ignored.
To anti drone weapons stations: None has worked properly until now. Even the laser weapons were a failure. So the main anti drone weapon is the shotgun. And to be honest, I would bet a lot on the Skyranger AA tanks. If one appears on the frontline I am sure that the Russians will fight it as a premium target, and if 20+X drones attacking, it will be scrap metal, soon.

 

[Beltrami2005]

You are right. Single soldiers are a less important target (on both sides). So during an attack/movement a soldier has more survival chances if moving alone, not in larger files or inside a vehicle.
After the impressive Ukrainian drone show during the Nato excercise in 2025 they said that commonly in a 10m² area 100 FPV Drones are in air at a time if no intense combat situation.
The M1/Leopard 2 have a better protection for the crews, but they are vulnerable to drones, of course. The Russian Turtle tanks are better protected to drones, but they are nearly useless for their intended use. But on the other hand it doesn´t care because tank to tank combat is that rare todays it can be ignored.
To anti drone weapons stations: None has worked properly until now. Even the laser weapons were a failure. So the main anti drone weapon is the shotgun. And to be honest, I would bet a lot on the Skyranger AA tanks. If one appears on the frontline I am sure that the Russians will fight it as a premium target, and if 20+X drones attacking, it will be scrap metal, soon.

The Gepard is quite sucessful on drones i did read

 

[Feanor]

The Gepard is quite sucessful on drones i did read

Again, different drones. There's the Shaheds, Gerbers, and their various cousins used for long range strike. They are larger, less numerous, and tend to fly higher off the ground. They have fairly long range, and this is what the Gepards have done quite well against. But we don't (unless you're about to provide some) have any good information on Gepards being able to protect against FPV drones on the front lines. These drones are smaller, they fly lower to the ground (often sub-1m altitude) and are manually controlled. Shaheds are sometimes equipped with cameras and used to target air defenses, but FPV drones are actively hunting for any enemy vehicle or troop element they can find.

You are right. Single soldiers are a less important target (on both sides). So during an attack/movement a soldier has more survival chances if moving alone, not in larger files or inside a vehicle.
After the impressive Ukrainian drone show during the Nato excercise in 2025 they said that commonly in a 10m² area 100 FPV Drones are in air at a time if no intense combat situation.
The M1/Leopard 2 have a better protection for the crews, but they are vulnerable to drones, of course. The Russian Turtle tanks are better protected to drones, but they are nearly useless for their intended use. But on the other hand it doesn´t care because tank to tank combat is that rare todays it can be ignored.

I think their intended use has actually changed. We've seen videos of Russian turtle tanks doing supply runs on the front lines. In other words their intended use is that of a well protected transport. The tank cannon is either a nice bonus or dead weight. We do have both sides using tanks to carry out fire missions against targets, often with indirect fires. What we have far less of are traditional tank attacks.

To anti drone weapons stations: None has worked properly until now. Even the laser weapons were a failure. So the main anti drone weapon is the shotgun. And to be honest, I would bet a lot on the Skyranger AA tanks. If one appears on the frontline I am sure that the Russians will fight it as a premium target, and if 20+X drones attacking, it will be scrap metal, soon.

Have lasers been a failure? I'm not aware of a laser system meant for FPV drone defense being used. I know Russian drone defense teams have been using an imported laser against larger longer-ranged drones, and reportedly to good effect. I imagine in this role lasers will be fine. But it's an open question how well something like M-SHORAD will deal with FPV drones. I certainly would be very curious to know. Personally I wouldn't bet much on the Skyranger. If a traditional gun+radar combination worked, we'd seen Patsyr-SV systems covering Russian mech assaults and defeating Ukrainian drones. But we don't.