The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

Fredled

Active Member
Feanor said:
A knocked out M113 MEDVAC variant in Crimea.
Maybe, you mean "in Kursk"?

Feanor said:
An interesting shot of a Ukrainian drone hitting a Russian vehicle of some sort. Allegedly this is a ground-based version of the ship-based Zaslon radar.
Confirmed by Ukrinform.

Feanor said:
There are reprots that the US is blocking the transfer of Abrams tanks to Ukraine from Australia.
Yes, it's very strange. We have talked about that in the previous days.
Americans tried to explain this by saying that it's not very rational because it's very expensive to ship the tanks and refurbish them and that they are "not sure that Ukrainians still want these tanks"[sic].
Ukrinform have not commented on this AFAIK.

There are reports (from Reuters I think) that Pete Heggseth had cancelled all air born deliveries to Ukraine minutes after he left a meeting with Trump in the WH, in the early days of his inauguration. The interruption lasted one week.
It's possible that he is also responsible for the blocking of the Abram tanks transfer.
Maybe they don;t want to give Uktainians tools for another counter-offensive which could retake somme territories from Russia. Or, instead, they do that to show the Russians that they are blocking some military shipment to Ukraine while in fact, the delivery was about to be cancelled for technical cost reasons.

Feanor said:
here are reports that the Dnepropetrovsk plant provided 120 000 defective artillery shells to the Ukrainian military.
That was mortar shells. The CEO and several other persons have been arraigned. They used a mix of substandard powder causing many failures. (links in my previous posts)

KipPotapych said:
The interesting points are that it is becoming more and more difficult to evacuate the wounded (days is normal); while bullet wounds were normal before, they are almost nonexistent now and the majority of injuries come from FPVs and glide bombs; the war is getting deadlier for everyone, at the line of contact or further out; those further out have a better chance of being evacuated.
There are reports that the grey zone, once a few hundred meter, if not barely 100 meters, have extended to several kilometres. Both sides are afraid to enter the grey zone because of the drones and flying bombs.
Russians are using motorcycles to try to cross this grey zone as fast as possible. But it's not very successful.

This means that the grey zones that we see on the maps are much more larger in reality. Areas painted solid as "Ukrainian" or as "Russian" may be completely empty over several kilometres.

rsemmes said:
"But the deal is about Ukraine playing for time and maintaining some level of US support for its war of self-defence. With Russia’s war machine facing the ticking clock of oil price declines, time might even be on Ukraine’s side."

Somewhere else I read (oil price) in 5 years. We have some economy analyst around here, is Russian economy going to collapse, this time, in five years just because of the oil price? That simple?
Does Ukraine have soldiers for those 5 years? Not to mention everything else needed, including foreign money.
The goal is indeed to keep US military aid coming. It costs nothing for the Ukrainians as it's supposed to be paid by future profits generated by the fund. It can take years before the fund investments turn a profit. So it's not that bad for Ukrainians, in this perspective.

I don't think that they are "waiting for the low oil price to collapse the Russian economy". Oil price could climb back above $70 in a few months. It's in fact quiet a surprise that oil fell that much.
I have heard that the price oil that Russia can sell under sanction is not $60/Barrel but $15 under market price. It makes a big difference when oil prices are down. I didn't spend time to check because I assumed it's true.

Second, Russia still has plenty of financial resources for its military even with the economy collapsing. Notably with China's guarantee of continued oil purchase.
_________________________

Interesting tidbits from the Ukrainian news:
Latvia and Lithuania denied their airspace to Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic's plane on his way to the May 9 Parade.
Poland did the same for Robert Fico. These guys have to fly through Turkey, possibly further to circumvent the war zone and the subsequent denied air spaces.
:D

Ukrainians made a large scale drone attack last night and day. I suspect them to attempt to disrupt incoming flights when diplomats have to land in Moscow for the New World Order Parade.
At the same time they could also use the window of oportunity when the Russians had moved many of their air defence to Moscow to strike target elsewhere.

I hope Ukraine will fire another great barrage of drones and missiles tomorrow and after tomorrow. Then abstaining after the 10th of May.

Ukraine calls on India, Pakistan for restraint and political dialogue.
Serving India their own medecine.
Earlier, India had called on Russia and Ukraine to use diplomatic dialogue to solve the "crisis" (eventually they called it a "conflict" later).
Now that India finds itself in a military conflict with Pakistan, well... Uke foreign ministry "urges for restraint" Hihihihi! :D

About two thousand civilians remain in the city of Pokrovsk

Meet the the robot deminer “Zmiy”. Seems promising.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Yeah, since posting I see there is some debate on it now. Everyone who says Uragan-1M, cites Janovsky, from my understanding, ie Oryx (as my post above). Then there are those that suggest it is M1991; the third group says KN-09. I am not even remotely capable of making a call here. This is what’s in the video:



KN-09:



M1991:



Uragan-1M:



To me it looks like either KN-09 or Uragan-1M. Janovsky made a point that the pods do not look like those of KN-09 (or M1991). I agree that it looks more like Uragan-1M. However, if you look at the cabin here, for example:

View attachment 52826

It looks like KN-09.

But who can tell from a video like that? I also want to stress again that I have no clue what I am talking about here, haha.

Ukrainians are saying it was a KN-09, so, perhaps, they know best in this case?


I believe I saw “unconfirmed” reports citing RU sources that there were some Uragan-1M supplied to the frontline about a year ago (or so?). No idea what is true though, like with many things.
I believe those reports confused the Uragan-1 with the Uragan-1M. Uragan-1 is the regular BM-27 launcher on the BAZ Voschina chassis, and quite a few of these were supplied and have been spotted. But their rocket pods and cabins don't match what we see here.

Ok, thanks. Looks like less than 10 km then (though we don’t know where the drone operators were, of course). I didn’t have the time to look through the update yet (in fact, when I started the post, the update wasn’t there yet; I came back to it several times trough out the day before actually posting).
Yeah, it's very close to the front lines.

Maybe, you mean "in Kursk"?
Yes, sorry, corrected.

This is not confirmation. It's one Ukrainian claim followed up by another one. Confirmation would have to come in the form of better footage, or a Russian source. They hit something. It might be a truck-mounted radar. On the other hand, look at the ship-based Zaslon, and look at the truckmounted "box". There are some issues there.

There are reports that the grey zone, once a few hundred meter, if not barely 100 meters, have extended to several kilometres. Both sides are afraid to enter the grey zone because of the drones and flying bombs.
Russians are using motorcycles to try to cross this grey zone as fast as possible. But it's not very successful.

This means that the grey zones that we see on the maps are much more larger in reality. Areas painted solid as "Ukrainian" or as "Russian" may be completely empty over several kilometres.
It's not that they're completely empty, there is presence, but movement between hidden positions is very dangerous. Most of the coloring gets done based on either footage of presence or footage of strikes.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
RIA Novosti probably “confirmed” a whole bunch of things too. Just saying. Not sure how you see it as a confirmation of anything but the existence of the initial report.

Yes, it's very strange. We have talked about that in the previous days.
Americans tried to explain this by saying that it's not very rational because it's very expensive to ship the tanks and refurbish them and that they are "not sure that Ukrainians still want these tanks"[sic].
Ukrinform have not commented on this AFAIK.
As was indicated in the couple of articles I cited here previously, Biden admin tried to talk Australia out of sending these tanks to Ukraine in the first place and, according to some Australian sources as per one of the articles (or both?), they never issued the reexport permits for these Abrams. My understanding is that there was never any plan to refurbish these: they were supposed to head to Poland and then straight to Ukraine. I could be wrong on the latter, but I am fairly certain I am not. Personally, I do not believe these will make it to Ukraine.

This case shows the power/importance of US permits and logistics. Which is what we discussed previously.

That was mortar shells. The CEO and several other persons have been arraigned. They used a mix of substandard powder causing many failures. (links in my previous posts)
This is mostly correct. The initial order was for some artillery shells, as well as mortar rounds. Funny enough, it was known from the beginning that the contracted company had no capacity to produce what the contract was signed for. They ended up refunding the money for the artillery shells eventually, but sent garbage mortar shells to the front lines. At the end of the day, nearly all (if not all) delivered mortar charges were defective.

It is petty clear that someone in the Ministry of Defense got their pockets full with this deal.

There are reports that the grey zone, once a few hundred meter, if not barely 100 meters, have extended to several kilometres. Both sides are afraid to enter the grey zone because of the drones and flying bombs.
How do the nearly constant attacks are occurring all over the frontline then? Russians attack nearly all the time in one place or another; Ukrainians counterattack once in a while too.

Russians are using motorcycles to try to cross this grey zone as fast as possible. But it's not very successful.
Latest developments actually indicate that they are pretty successful. Not only they have captured some very important ground (and consolidated), they also (allegedly) reduced their losses. See my post on the previous page.

This means that the grey zones that we see on the maps are much more larger in reality. Areas painted solid as "Ukrainian" or as "Russian" may be completely empty over several kilometres.
What you see on the maps painted in colour or another indicates control determined by the best educated guess of the mappers, based on geolocations. The good ones are right most of the time, but not always. For the best example of “not always” see Toretsk, which was coloured red completely by most of the very good sources, but it was never the case in reality.

The goal is indeed to keep US military aid coming. It costs nothing for the Ukrainians as it's supposed to be paid by future profits generated by the fund. It can take years before the fund investments turn a profit. So it's not that bad for Ukrainians, in this perspective.
“Costs nothing” would be very incorrect. “There is no such thing as a free lunch”, as I pointed out a few times previously. I can’t comment much on the deal as I still haven’t seen the details, just general outlines. From the general outlines, it isn’t good for Ukraine, but beggars can’t be choosers.

It's in fact quiet a surprise that oil fell that much.
It is actually not a surprise at all. The macro indicators from China have indicated for while that the prices would drop. The OPEC+ has also been insisting they would increase the output regardless of the economic situation. Then came tariffs and the completely irrational, in my opinion, economic policy of the Trump administration. Here we are. The ones who are hurt the most are actually those drilling in the US, whom Trump promised golden eggs instead.

Ukraine calls on India, Pakistan for restraint and political dialogue.
And Ukraine is absolutely correct here. Nobody cares about what it has to say on the subject though, unfortunately.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
I separated this into a post of its own. Apologies to Redshift for the wall of text, but this one might be somewhat educational, haha.

I have heard that the price oil that Russia can sell under sanction is not $60/Barrel but $15 under market price. It makes a big difference when oil prices are down. I didn't spend time to check because I assumed it's true.
Your assumption is very wrong again. Here are basic facts and math. Under sanctions, Russia can sell its oil “legit” for $60 or less per barrel, using the “legit” fleet and insurance; in other words, using market transport rates (this is very important as we will see later in this post). There is no discount in this case. Why would there be any if the sale follows all the “laws” and anyone can buy it at the market price? Note, that I put it “legit” and “laws” in quotes because there are no such actual laws or legitimacy to the whole scheme, but simply rules imposed by those who provide the means of freight and/or their insurance. Otherwise, nobody cares about any of it, including members of the EU itself.

Now let’s assume the market price is $65 per barrel of oil. In your example, the Russians must be complete idiots to provide a discount higher than $5 per barrel because they can simply use the “legit” transport and sell it for $60 to the next guy in line. In other words, they will not provide a discount of $15 unless the price hits the mark of over $75 per barrel.

Now lets add some complexity and say that the market price of oil is $75, but… I don’t recall the exact numbers anymore (there do exist approximate calculations of these numbers though), but let’s just say, for the sake of this discussion, it costs Russia additional $5 per barrel to ship their oil in their “shady” ways. This, logically, would take us into the realm where the price of oil is over $80 per barrel for a $15 discount to make any sense. This could not be any more straight forward, I don’t think.

Let’s add another layer of complexity. Consider that the market price of oil is sitting at $80 per barrel and it costs Russia additional $5 per barrel to ship their oil because they cannot use the “legit” ways to do so - that is, the maximum they can fetch is $75. Russia, obviously, wants to maximize profits and get more than the imposed ceiling of $60 for every barrel of oil they sell. Here we have China, India, Turkey, and dozens of other countries thst want to buy this very oil at a discounted price. Something to keep in mind here is that Russian oil is still being pumped to Europe via Druzhba pipeline and it is being sold at market prices (not exactly, but to make things simpler we can assume this is the case) because there is no “ceiling” set for oil delivered via pipelines.

So… Let’s say China says “I’ll buy your oil at a discount of $15 per barrel”. Here, Russia throws up its head and laughs because it can sell it to Romania, for example, at $60 per and only having to haul it over the Black Sea. $5 in extra shipping costs plus $15 discount puts it right back to the “legal” $60 per barrel. India, having more common sense, says “I will buy your oil at $14 per barrel discount”. Turkey, realizing it may miss out on a great deal, says “$13 discount is good enough for me”. China gets back to its senses and says “Hey, I am good with a 8-dollar discount and I will take all you have to move this month”. India says “It makes a lot of sense for me to get this Russian oil at $75 per barrel - that is, discount of $5 per barrel, which is the additional shipping costs Russia now incurs - than paying the market price of $80 to someone else”. All of a sudden, Greece chimes in and says “You know what, Russia, I will take a buck a barrel and let you unload whatever you want to whoever you want in my territorial waters and be done with it”. Russia takes the highest bidder and moves on to the next one.

While the above description of the situation is oversimplified for the sake of easy-to-digest example, this is all very trivial stuff. The “ceiling” is designed so that Russia will never sell their oil for less than that ceiling whenever the market price is above it. Which is why some suggested that the ceiling price should not be fixed, but rather floating and tied to the market price of oil. That makes little sense as well. But first, let’s look at it in another way.

So let’s say my business is transporting oil and I own ten tankers. Two of these tankers are usually reserved for transporting oil from Russia. All of a sudden, with the sanctions in place, I can no longer ship Russian oil when market price is above $60 per barrel. There are many other guys like me who have parts of their fleet dedicated to the same customer. Some guys had 80%+ of their fleet dedicated to the transport of Russian oil. Some of those guys said, once the sanctions were enacted, they would now dedicate their entire fleet to transport Russian oil for higher fees per barrel and sanctions be damned. It clearly made a lot of economic sense to them. Others, having most of their fleet tied up to other customers not directly affected by the sanctions, ended up with having some excess capacity that no one wants at prices that make economic sense to these service providers. I, previously having 8 tankers dedicated to the US, Saudis, UAE, etc, and two to Russia, am now in a bind. I could find the use for one of my tankers, thanks to the guy who said that he will now exclusively haul oil from Russia. My other tanker is sitting idle, however. What am I to do? Well, Russia is now building its “shadow fleet” and is offering some great coin for the idle tanker I have. I can’t just have it sitting idle because it is very expensive and I am incurring substantial losses. Moreover, Russia is offering quite a bit more than I can get for my oldest ship in almost any other circumstances. Of course, I sell that ship to Russia. Everyone else does the same until the new market equilibrium is achieved in the oil transport world.

Funny enough, now, once the price of oil drops to where it makes more sense for Russia to employ the “legit” fleet, everyone else is experiencing considerably higher delivery fees because Russia has a substantial (relatively speaking) control of tanker availability for crude transport. In other words, they now own what became the excess capacity at higher oil prices prior.

To come back to the original proposition that Russia provides a 15-dollar discount… it is not the reality. For a relatively brief point in time it was very much so. I saw discounts larger than $15 being reported. Why was this the case? The answer is simple: Russia did not have the capacity to transport the oil they are producing to avoid the artificially imposed price caps. Thus, everyone took advantage for as long as they could. As the shadow fleet grew in size, the discount gradually decreased to often being nil.

Why does this price cap make no sense? Well, in addition to what I described above, we now have a whole bunch of tankers sailing the seas, tankers that have subpar safety standards (if sny), inspections, etc. We saw limited consequences of the practice in the Black Sea. If it happens somewhere else, good luck having Russia pay for remediation. There is a reason we have a mandatory insurance. On top of that, as I also discussed, Russia now clearly has some pull on the global crude transport rates and this is more permanent because no one in their right mind would invest into new fleet (or buy their old stock back) in the time of uncertainty as long as the sanctions are in place.

Tying the cap to the market price will also achieve very little at this point. Price elasticity is not there (who would have thought?!).

It should also be noted that my brief discussion above is very simplified. There are many other factors that come into play. For instance, and importantly, people usually say “oil” and assume that this is all there is to it. That could not be further from the truth. One “oil” is very different from another. There is light and heavy, sweet and sour, etc. Those aren’t just words. A lot of refining infrastructure was built to refine a specific type of oil. Some refineries in the US, for example, were built to process heavy Canadian oil and about the only substitute they can get is the oil from Venezuela. Mexico is a lot closer, but without substantial investments (usually worth billions of dollars), Mexican oil has no value for those refineries. The opposite is, of course, true as well. I cannot make educated enough comments on the refineries most of anywhere else outside of North America, but the rule is surely universal. In other words, some places can do very little but to buy oil they were built to process.

I have a lot more to say on the subject, but I trust this should suffice for now. Assumptions should always be based on knowledge and reality. Otherwise… As I was taught, the word itself provides for trouble “ass u me”. In other words, it has potential to make an ass of both, you and me.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
So, that "time might even be on Ukraine’s side" from theguardian is just more wishful thinking and now we have a new side effect from those sanctions.
First, it was EU less dependant of Russian gas, but more dependant of more expensive US gas. Then, Russia less dependent on EU electronics and now, a bigger Russian tanker fleet.
Well, as long as business is good (Great news!), all is well.

"Tracks of interest". Yes, it was already happening. NATO providing enough intelligence to fire at the target or just informing of the presence of a target is a NATO decision. (By that NYT article.)

Zelenski is selling the country and someone will pay the bill in the future, but it costs nothing now. It was described as neo-colonialism. (Or it was new-colonialism?)
 
That must be an awkward encounter

The Economist said:
Until now, no suitable fibre had been produced in Ukraine. Oleksiy Zhulinskiy, the chief technical officer of 3dTech, says the Chinese dominate the fibre market and that Ukrainian buyers have bumped into Russian ones in Chinese factories where both are vying to buy; Russia sometimes gazumps them. This month 3dTech is going to begin testing its own cable.
 
The Economist said:
In the Ukrainian arms race, the holy grail is a laser weapon capable of blinding or frying the electronic heart of any incoming drone, missile, warplane or helicopter. At a tech fair on April 13th Vadym Sukharevsky, head of Ukraine’s Unmanned Systems Forces, showed how Ukraine is testing its own Tryzub laser system to do just this. The effective lifespan of any new military technology seems to be getting ever shorter as the war drags on.

Imagine a counter-drone weapon effective enough to essentially largely remove enemy drones as a factor. In a conflict where drones play a central role, this could be a major shake-up - and an impactful advantage for whoever gets there first.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The Victory Day truce has begun. While Ukraine officially hasn't accepted it there are reports of Ukrainian units receiving orders to only fire in self-defense, and there is a large reduction in the intensity of fighting from both sides. Both sides, however, are continuing fighting in some areas. Most noteworthy are Ukrainian efforts at Tetkino, and Russian efforts on the Dnepropetrovsk axis.
 
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