Su-30MKI vs Su-30MKK

[aaaditya]

aaditya you said that india is waiting to join the pak-fa.in earlier posts we said that india is an active member.some clarification please.

russia invited india to join the pak-fa project,and both countries have agreed in principle to develop a modern fifth generation ombat aircraft,however the pakfa in its current form does not meet iaf's requirements,the iaf wants a single engined jet ,where as pakfa is twin engine,india is now looking at the russian mig's designs(mig i-2000),sukhoi in the meantime offered a single engined ,light weight variant of pakfa known as the pakfa lite.

india is still trying to choose between the two and hence has not given funding and officically joined the project.

 

[aaaditya]

Russia began it and like most of its projects it ran out of funds to finish it.

India didnt fund the whole thing but it just partnered up with russia. India provided the money for the project to continue, russia provides the resources.

India provided money for it to continue therefore it funded it.

well man iam quite sure that you can provide a source to your statement,because iam quite sure that india did not fund s47 berkut at any stage.

besides think about this logically why would india fund something which it does not want.
the berkut was entirely an self financed project just like the mig1.50 was mig's internal development project.

 

[suryaaa]

Russia began it and like most of its projects it ran out of funds to finish it.

India didnt fund the whole thing but it just partnered up with russia. India provided the money for the project to continue, russia provides the resources.

India provided money for it to continue therefore it funded it.

actualy what he asked is some solid proof ,we can all make assumptions considering the present situation and i too hope that is the case,so post the link of the site which says this.

 

[aaaditya]

well here is an article which clearly mentions that the su30mkm is similiar to the su-30mki.

here check out the link:

http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news_business.php?id=193716


On the expertise needed to maintain and repair the Sukhoi planes, Poveshchenko said the Malaysian technicians would be taught in India.

"Russia has been training the Indian technicians and now the Indians can prepare the Malaysian technicians because the (Sukhoi) planes (used by India) are similar," he said.

He explained that the Malaysian version of the Sukhoi differed from the Indian plane (the Su-30MKI) because the Israeli avionics in the Su-30MKI were replaced by those French-made.

"So Malaysia will have no Israeli components in its Sukhoi planes," he added.

Yesterday, Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak, who is also the Defence Minister, presented a letter of intent to Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) for the training of technicians from the Royal Malaysian Air Force.

Povenshchenko said a group of Sukhoi experts and technicians would be coming soon to Malaysia to assist in training and maintenance of the Su-30MKM.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is an interesting translated article on the su30's offered to venezuela ,this article contains the pretty deatailed information of the irbis radar.

check out this link:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.aporrea.org/dameverbo.php%3Fdocid%3D76261&prev=/search%3Fq%3DNIIP%2BIrbis%2BPESA%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D


The radar N035 Irbis (Irbis-E for export airplanes), developed by the institute Tikhomirov NIIP for Su-35 is the continuation of the Bars radar of Su-30MKI and, like its predecessor, it has antenna of I scan electronically passive (WEIGHT). According to the NIIP, the radar WEIGHT ' clásicó (for this company) is still far from being obsolete and is as good as the first radars with active antenna (AESA).

The advantages of the Irbis on the Bars include a ampler reach of operational frequencies, greater angle of zone search (due to the best antenna and conduction of two steps), reaches greater and better resistance to interferences (jamming, thanks to a more powerful transmitter), as well as greater resolution, as much in the detection of aerial targets or surface.

The Irbis-E radar is able of traquear-while-scans up to 30 targets, eight of which they can be almost continuously traqueados with sufficient exactitude for simultaneous enlistments by eight missiles air-air (AAMs) with active radar of midrange (Rvv-ae) or by four AAMs of long reach with active radar (K-100).

The Irbis-E is able to hook simultaneously up to four targets of surface. In the way of combined-arms operation, the radar is able to look for simultaneously in the airspace and the terrestrial surface including the enlistment of an only aerial target with sufficient exactitude to use a missile of active radar.

Thanks to the power peak of 20Kw, the Irbis-E radar vee the aerial target of a section of three square meters from one distances nonsmaller 350-400Km not less On guard frontal or than 150 km On guard of tail (to great altitude). Targets ' furtivos' (with section of radar of 0,01 m2) are detected from a distance of 90km.

The prototype of the Iris radar began aerial tests the 24 of June of the 2005 in the experimental fighter Su-30Mk2. The tests confirmed the reach search of the project as well as the possibility of the simultaneous work with nine targets, two real and seven imitation ones. The radar worked simultaneously in air-air and air-to-surface ways.

 

[myskykk]

another major difference between the mki and the mkk are the presence of canards on the mki ,while the mkk does not have canards.

the mki has french ,indian,and israeli avionics.

the mki has inspired several aircrafts,i believe vietnam has the mki configuration,the malaysian mkm configuration is based on the mki ,but the israeli equipment on the mki have been replaced by the indian and french equipment on the mkm,recently one african country acquire the su30 variant for which hal is carrying out the subcontracting work particularly with respect to avionics.

the avionics system of mki were developed and integrated under the project vetrivale.according to the indian air chief the mki's will be upgraded in blocks,these upgrades will include the irbis snowleapord radar which has been offered by the russia to venezuela,integration of the indigenously designed astra bvr missile,indo-russian brahmos missile and the ks172 missiles.

the mki also has indigenous ew system instead of the israeli or french ones,these are the tarang and the tempest pods,i believe the recently developed shiv pod can also be used .

Actually Su-30MKK and Su-30MKI was built from different factory and commpany. Su-30MKI was IAPO private production without supported by offcial Sukhoi !(because both of them is the competitor for russia SU family export). IAPO was the part of Sukhoi offcial factory in Soviet Union before divided into two parts. Why china got Su-30MKK instead of Su-30MKI?
Su-30MKK and Su-30MKi is complete different series!
1.Su-30MKK base on SU-33UB/SU-35UB/Su-37body! Su-30MKI base on Su-27UB!
2.For finish different mission and target .
3.Su-30MKK can got much support and update from Sukhoi offcial. that's why you can see Su-30MKK2.....3 soon
4.Su-30 have more update potential than Su-30MKI
5.Russia air force will update of Su-27S SK SMK UB..... base on SU-30MKK!

 

[suryaaa]

Actually Su-30MKK and Su-30MKI was built from different factory and commpany. Su-30MKI was IAPO private production without supported by offcial Sukhoi !(because both of them is the competitor for russia SU family export). IAPO was the part of Sukhoi offcial factory in Soviet Union before divided into two parts. Why china got Su-30MKK instead of Su-30MKI?
Su-30MKK and Su-30MKi is complete different series!
1.Su-30MKK base on SU-33UB/SU-35UB/Su-37body! Su-30MKI base on Su-27UB!
2.For finish different mission and target .
3.Su-30MKK can got much support and update from Sukhoi offcial. that's why you can see Su-30MKK2.....3 soon
4.Su-30 have more update potential than Su-30MKI
5.Russia air force will update of Su-27S SK SMK UB..... base on SU-30MKK!

1)can you specify what kind of updates that su-30 has which cannot be done on mki.

2)your coment about china can get mki if they wanted is not right because in modern day battle technology counts ,and know that russian (or i should say ussr after they broke up ) have not got any chance to upgrade their tech ,what all things we see now is what developed by ussr.that is mki has a blend of diff tech from east ,weast & indigneous.china if wanted to get mki wont get western tech.

 

[aaaditya]

Actually Su-30MKK and Su-30MKI was built from different factory and commpany. Su-30MKI was IAPO private production without supported by offcial Sukhoi !(because both of them is the competitor for russia SU family export). IAPO was the part of Sukhoi offcial factory in Soviet Union before divided into two parts. Why china got Su-30MKK instead of Su-30MKI?
Su-30MKK and Su-30MKi is complete different series!
1.Su-30MKK base on SU-33UB/SU-35UB/Su-37body! Su-30MKI base on Su-27UB!
2.For finish different mission and target .
3.Su-30MKK can got much support and update from Sukhoi offcial. that's why you can see Su-30MKK2.....3 soon
4.Su-30 have more update potential than Su-30MKI
5.Russia air force will update of Su-27S SK SMK UB..... base on SU-30MKK!

are you sure about the su30mkk being derived from the su33 etc,i believe that the su30mkk was derived from the su27u which china had acquired from russia,anyway i will find out from some chinese websites and get back to you.

as far as the su30mki is concerned,the mki is not the final and ultimate version,several upgraded versions of su30mki are planned (in the form of block upgrades just like the chinese airforce mkk,these will be designated as the mki-1,mki-2 etc),included in the planned upgrade are the brahmos cruise missile and an aesa radar (elta elm-2052 or the russian irbis).

 

[aaaditya]

Actually Su-30MKK and Su-30MKI was built from different factory and commpany. Su-30MKI was IAPO private production without supported by offcial Sukhoi !(because both of them is the competitor for russia SU family export). IAPO was the part of Sukhoi offcial factory in Soviet Union before divided into two parts. Why china got Su-30MKK instead of Su-30MKI?
Su-30MKK and Su-30MKi is complete different series!
1.Su-30MKK base on SU-33UB/SU-35UB/Su-37body! Su-30MKI base on Su-27UB!
2.For finish different mission and target .
3.Su-30MKK can got much support and update from Sukhoi offcial. that's why you can see Su-30MKK2.....3 soon
4.Su-30 have more update potential than Su-30MKI
5.Russia air force will update of Su-27S SK SMK UB..... base on SU-30MKK!

well buddy here is the proof that the su30mkk is based on the su27sk .

check out this link:

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/su30.asp

by the way is the mkk a twin seater like the mki?

 

[blackboy11]

well.....as far as i know..
mkk is developed by china mainly for ground strike..
mki is developed for air battle..
so....to decide which is better primarily based on the types of missions..

 

[suryaaa]

well.....as far as i know..
mkk is developed by china mainly for ground strike..
mki is developed for air battle..
so....to decide which is better primarily based on the types of missions..

developed by china give me a break,they may have integrated some avionics into mkk like what india has done .so can you explain your stand.

about mki as omly a strike ,lol its a multi purpose fighter and it can perform all kind of operation .latest versions are missile carrier sukhoi.(mki carrying brahmos).

 

[LancerMc]

aaaditya is correct that the SU-30KK was developed from the Su-27 not the Su-30. The Chinese did not develop anything in their particular model. Sukhoi made a technology demonstrator. The Chinese just produced the fighter, and though I am sure it has added Chinese avionics as well.

The Su-30KK was developed more as a long range attack and anti shipping aircraft not primarily as a fighter. The initial Su-30KI's that entered the IAF, lacked more sophisticated ground attacks capabilities, the last planed Phase 4 variants will have a very advance ground attack abilities. The Su-30MKI has a much greater capability as dog fighter then the Su-30KK, with its thrust vectoring nozzles and other avionics, it would most likely be able to beat a Su-30KK fairly easily.

 

[LancerMc]

aaaditya is correct that the SU-30KK was developed from the Su-27 not the Su-30. The Chinese did not develop anything in their particular model. Sukhoi made a technology demonstrator. The Chinese just produced the fighter, and though I am sure it has added Chinese avionics as well.

The Su-30KK was developed more as a long range attack and anti shipping aircraft not primarily as a fighter. The initial Su-30KI's that entered the IAF, lacked more sophisticated ground attacks capabilities, the last planed Phase 4 variants will have a very advance ground attack abilities. The Su-30MKI has a much greater capability as dog fighter then the Su-30KK, with its thrust vectoring nozzles and other avionics, it would most likely be able to beat a Su-30KK fairly easily.

 

[aaaditya]

i dont know what are the roles for which the su30mkk is intended ,but the su30mki is capable of functioning the following roles equally effectively.

air superiority fighter(air defence,interception and escort)

deep penetration strike attack(conventional and nuclear)

maritime strike

electronic warfare

photo reconnaisance

fighter air controller (mini airborne warning and control system roles).

also with the more advanced version in development iam sure it will be more versatile.

this is also the prime reason why it has a two man crew ,instead of only one in most fighters.for such long range ,high endurance missions a two man crew will be able to perform more efficiently than a one man crew.

 

[EnigmaNZ]

http://www.saunalahti.fi/fta/fighter.htm#Su-27 - 37

There is a good history of all the various types of Sukhois here, from the Su-27 to the Su-37. Very informative. Main versions of the Flanker appear to be;

Su-27"A/B/C" basic single-seat air superiority fighter.
Su-27"K" single-seat export air superiority fighter, also Naval version's designation.
Su-27"S" improved version.
Su-27"SK" improved export version
Su-27"SMK" (S=improved, M=multirole, K=export)
Su-27"UB" tandem seat trainer.
Su-27"PU" tandem seat fighter with full mission capable back seat.
Su-27"IB" side-by-side seat fighter bomber.
Su-30"K" upgraded tandem seat full-system Su-27 interceptor.
Su-30"MK" tandem seat export multi-role fighter.
Su-30"MKI" Indian version of the Su-30"MK"
Su-32"FN" side-by-side seat primary air-to-ground/sea mission specialization.
Su-33 Naval Strike Fighter (known in Russia as the Naval Su-27"K")
Su-34 side-by-side seat prototype of the Su-32"FN".
Su-35 single seat multi purpose fighter with advanced weapon system, stronger airframe and canard.
Su-37 Thrust Vectored Control (TVC) fighter.

All quite confusing really.

 

[Scorpion82]

Just my 2 cents:
The Su-30MKI has canards and the AL-31FP TVC engine which heavily increases the maneuverability and low speed/AoA performance of the type.
The Su-30MKI includes a comprehensive and sophisticated avionics package which includes a more advanced RWR (Tarang 2), integrated israeli ECM and the PESA multimode fire control radar N011M, compared to the much less capable N-001 variant of the Su-30MKK. The MKI also includes more advanced navigation systems with many of them coming from France or being produced under licence in India. The possible weaponary is similar for both types, but the two air forces will also use some different kinds of weapons.
Don't forget about the Su-30MK2 in PLAN service, it has a more advanced radar system Zhuk-MS or such, which could be more close to the BARS-M.

Someone mentioned Su-30MKA above for which country is that version and are there any details (contracts signed etc.)?

 

[tphuang]

Just my 2 cents:
The Su-30MKI has canards and the AL-31FP TVC engine which heavily increases the maneuverability and low speed/AoA performance of the type.
The Su-30MKI includes a comprehensive and sophisticated avionics package which includes a more advanced RWR (Tarang 2), integrated israeli ECM and the PESA multimode fire control radar N011M, compared to the much less capable N-001 variant of the Su-30MKK. The MKI also includes more advanced navigation systems with many of them coming from France or being produced under licence in India. The possible weaponary is similar for both types, but the two air forces will also use some different kinds of weapons.
Don't forget about the Su-30MK2 in PLAN service, it has a more advanced radar system Zhuk-MS or such, which could be more close to the BARS-M.

Someone mentioned Su-30MKA above for which country is that version and are there any details (contracts signed etc.)?

mk2 uses n-001vep version 2 not zhuk-mse (which had yet to finish testing when China purchased mk2) Also, it appears that China is interested in upgrading the engine of the existing flankers to AL-31FM1. It was in the JDW article that talked about J-10 getting AL-31FN-M1 and several Russian articles recently.

I believe the Algerians said they want the same version of su-30 that IAF is getting.

 

[suryaaa]

guys dont forget that mki will have its variants in the comoing future.

it was informed that their will be block upgradaion .

possilble variant we can see in the near future is mki carrying pj-10

[not our pj-10].:type

 

[dabrownguy]

What I want to know is if the IN will be getting TVC engines for those MiG-29Ks?

 

[ajaybhutani]

What I want to know is if the IN will be getting TVC engines for those MiG-29Ks?

during the time of ordering these planes, the work on integrating mig29's with TVC hadnt started leave aside a nozzle for a carrier capable bird(as theres more wear and tear in sea). IN didnt find it a use to pay for the TVC ..