Su-30MK2 for Uganda

Kasy

New Member
Used MiG-29SMT would be better. But also overkill.

To be honest I'm not sure they need fighter aircraft at all.
A good strategist will assess the strength of an opponent and adopt a security posture that is not only meant to fight the enemy but to scare them from such an undertaking. Buying high sophisticated jet fighters and bombers may be an important deterrence for Uganda. For instance Khartoums [Sudan] or Egypt's assessment of Ugandas military preparedness and capacity will determine their method of attack or cooperation: If they smell weakness, they may fight directly; if they think Uganda UPDF is strong, they may chill.....

Cheers.
 

Feanor

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But the main point is they need stuff they can operate. They're going to have huge maintenance problems. If they do want modern fighters they should've gone for lighter and simpler fighters. The Su-30s are definitely an overkill for anything in the region, but the numbers are critically small. I'm not sure they're a credible deterrent to Sudan, given that Sudan operates iirc 24 Fulcrums, and dozens of older 3rd gen fighters.
 

Feanor

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Ground based defences, Air defences, Motorised infantry... and the like is what Uganda has been emphasizing in the past 25 years....thats done and dusted. The current chllenge has been air supiriority inspite of the Mig 21's and Mig 23's currently in operation.
I trust the military plannners of Uganda made a comprehensive threats assesment [SWOT] before these new birds where acquired..
They operate a hode podge of BMPs, BTR-60s, 80s, 40s, 152s, and a number of South African APCs. Replacing this tossed salad of museum pieces with a single modern APC or IFV would go a long way towards improving their military's capability. Clearly it's not done and dusted

Given a limited budget, and already owning a number, standardizing to the BMP-2 by purchasing used ones (possibly the M variant) from Ukraine or Russia shouldn't be difficult.

Iirc they recently purchased T-55s from Russia, so clearly they realize they have a ways to go in regards to ground forces.
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
Ground based defences, Air defences, Motorised infantry... and the like is what Uganda has been emphasizing in the past 25 years....thats done and dusted. The current chllenge has been air supiriority inspite of the Mig 21's and Mig 23's currently in operation.
I trust the military plannners of Uganda made a comprehensive threats assesment [SWOT] before these new birds where acquired..
Really? The only good SAMs that Uganda operates are Sa-3s the rest are all MANPADS, also from the sources I checked, the only air defence radar are P-30s.
 

Feanor

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All we know is it cost $740 million. This includes training, armament, simulator, support and other munitions. And it has all been paid for.
Iirc the 740 million is for more then just the fighter deal, it includes a number of other purchases including the T-55s.

Really? The only good SAMs that Uganda operates are Sa-3s the rest are all MANPADS, also from the sources I checked, the only air defence radar are P-30s.
Quite adequate for the region, if you think about it. As long as they're in good operating condition. The S-125s have good modernization potential, in particular the Pechora-2M variant. It's not like they have serious air threats to contend with.
 

Beatmaster

New Member
But the main point is they need stuff they can operate. They're going to have huge maintenance problems. If they do want modern fighters they should've gone for lighter and simpler fighters. The Su-30s are definitely an overkill for anything in the region, but the numbers are critically small. I'm not sure they're a credible deterrent to Sudan, given that Sudan operates iirc 24 Fulcrums, and dozens of older 3rd gen fighters.
Besides that having these birds might give the enemy goosebumps on the other hand if Egypt wanted to attack Uganda then there is really nothing Uganda can do.
It would be over in a matter of days if not hours, keep in mind that Egypt has a far more superior army and airforce and has significant numbers to do the job.
So unless Uganda is going to buy at least 20 more SU-30 (which they can never affort) their new bought deterrence does only provide a false sense of security, and drains their already bad cash flow not to mention if they got into a war with for example Egypt then those SU-30's would make a very expensive fireworks.
So IMO there is literally noone in the region that would have the power to invade Uganda and get away with it and those who can do have a army and airforce that much bigger that it would make little difference if Uganda would have SU-30's or not.
I hope you understand my point.

The true difference for Uganda can be gained by getting better Ground forces which includes IFV's, AV's + Meduim and Short Range Anti Air assets Tanks, Heli's and perhaps a good amount of short range and medium range fire support iee mortars and artillery. (which is also way more easy to support and maintain.)
I believe that that would boost their deterrence a hell of a lot more then just 4 SU-30's not to mention the fact that even if they would buy second hand ground or perhaps in some cases third hands gear it would already be a major boost to their overall capability as online sources say that Uganda's army has been stuck in the late 70's and mid 80's.
It would grant their army also a great leap forward in mobility which will proof a key point in any war for them, Not to mention the fact that most of the war will be fought on the ground in the bushes where fighter jets become near useless given the terrain of Uganda.
 

NICO

New Member
Another photo of a Ugandan Su-30MK2. They've started training Ugandan pilots on them, since mid-august.

bmpd - ÐÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ñ„Ð¾Ñ‚Ð¾Ð³Ñ€Ð°Ñ„Ð¸Ñ ÑƒÐ³Ð°Ð½Ð´Ð¸Ð¹Ñкого Су-30МК2
Has anyone heard about the weapons package part of the deal? The couple of pictures that have been released show the Su-30s in clean config. only, no weapons. Without weapons, these are really expensive toys.:hehe I have to admit, very handsome looking bird with that camouflage.Very sharp.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Another photo of a Ugandan Su-30MK2. They've started training Ugandan pilots on them, since mid-august.

bmpd - ÐÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ñ„Ð¾Ñ‚Ð¾Ð³Ñ€Ð°Ñ„Ð¸Ñ ÑƒÐ³Ð°Ð½Ð´Ð¸Ð¹Ñкого Су-30МК2
I just hope they can afford to maintain them. Indonesia and Malaysia each have much bigger economy than Uganda, still even now some people still questions is it worth having Flankers considered they're more expensive to maintain then F-16 (in case Indonesia) or F-18 (for Malaysian).

It will take big chunck of Uganda Defense budget just to maintain and armed them properly.
 

JoeMcFriday

New Member
Has anyone heard about the weapons package part of the deal? The couple of pictures that have been released show the Su-30s in clean config. only, no weapons. Without weapons, these are really expensive toys.:hehe I have to admit, very handsome looking bird with that camouflage.Very sharp.
Nico,

There's no detail in it of what munitions Uganda are getting but this Ugandan article kind of hypes their new '5th' gen fighter most enthusiastically.

The New Vision Online : Museveni inspects Uganda’s fighter jets

Cheers,
Mac
 

Feanor

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Interesting article. I can learn all kinds of new things from it. Like:

It has a weapons payload of 45 air-to-air missiles, 32 air-to-ground missiles, 77 dropped bombs and 120 rockets.
 

JoeMcFriday

New Member
Interesting article. I can learn all kinds of new things from it. Like:
My point in drawing attention to the article Feanor. No mention of the paratroops, they may be only an optional extra at this time.

At no stage though is it mentioned how or where they've added the extra 4 engines to get that lot off the ground!. :confused:

Cheers,
Mac
 

Feanor

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They just hooked up a flux capacitor to the existing engines. The article also fails to mention the new hovering capabilities. Also the plasma shields.

Seriously though, I really have to wonder about this. It's not like you can't use a Su-30MK2 for COIN, like against the LRA. It's just difficult and expensive. Will they Ugandan kit them out and use them for it? It would be interesting to see their experience with it in that role.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
But the main point is they need stuff they can operate. They're going to have huge maintenance problems. If they do want modern fighters they should've gone for lighter and simpler fighters. The Su-30s are definitely an overkill for anything in the region, but the numbers are critically small. I'm not sure they're a credible deterrent to Sudan, given that Sudan operates iirc 24 Fulcrums, and dozens of older 3rd gen fighters.
Exactly, something like the Yak-130 / MIG-AT would maybe be a better/economical choice.

77 dropped bombs
Thats really an environment friendly way to arm jetfighters, to reuse recycle bombs...
 

WolfC.lupus

New Member
Just a pity SA does not have enough pilots to fly them. There is talk that a number of Gripens are to be mothballed due to defense budget cuts.
I think you mean qualified pilots lol. We have quite a few pilot candidates that can really fly that get turned down for various (stupid or discriminating) reasons.
 

legoboy

New Member
I think you mean qualified pilots lol. We have quite a few pilot candidates that can really fly that get turned down for various (stupid or discriminating) reasons.
Does anybody know what the cost of these 6 aircraft is ?

I've been looking around and various sources all give way different price tags on this deal.

One website said this deal was worth $1.2 billion ??? wtf
While Wikipedia says $740 million ???
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Su-30 costs around $35.000.000, as far as i know.
But maybe the package include spareparts for the next coming 50 years, and enough R27s, R73s and R77s to wipe out every single African Airforce from this planet....

In 2007 Indonesia ordered 3 Su-27SKM and 3 Su-30MK2, this acquisition cost us $300 million.
 

Haavarla

Active Member
The Uganda Flanker deal have now been raised to 8 Su-30MK2 + additional weapons and crew training.
 

Feanor

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The Uganda Flanker deal have now been raised to 8 Su-30MK2 + additional weapons and crew training.
You have a source? Also is this a separate contract for 8 more, or did they add 2 fighters to the current contract? Was it an option?
 
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