i believe the many Bush talk to bring democracy in middle east has unnerved many autocratics in arab world. and with Bush sometimes rather sharp critics on the arab leaders, even some of his allies only serve to strengthened the view. so diversifying their military hardware source is like somekind of insurance in case their "trusted ally" turn on them.
Saudi considers T-95 MBTs?
- Thread starter Izzy1
- Start date
contedicavour
New Member
Yep right, but then just buy French Leclerc MBTs, it send a BIG signal and doesn't condemn the army to operate an untested and expensive tank...Awang se said:
cheers
I would understand the decision to buy T-95 if the Saudis would be implemented into the development from now on. If this is not the case I would not buy T-95 due to the fact that there is no final version I could test and I don't have the opportunity to change the design.
If I look at the manpower of SA a tank with an autoloader would give them some benefits because they already have problems to man their equipment.
If I look at the manpower of SA a tank with an autoloader would give them some benefits because they already have problems to man their equipment.
contedicavour
New Member
Good point, which reminds me btw that MBTs need to be adapted to desert combat, a bit like the Leclerc MBT was before the UAE bought it. The Russians' whether has nothing to do with the Saudi desert, so I doubt it was built with that in mind...Waylander said:
cheers
PlasmaKrab
New Member
Sounds strange that the Saudi are issuing queries for tank makers all over the world, when they already have M1A2s which could largely top anything in the region (except for Israel's Merkava-MkIV) for a given level of training.
The fact that their best equipment is US and that they are shopping everywhere but in the US for such showy contrats as MBTs gives some credit to the idea that they want to reduce their strategic dependence on the USA (way to go, guys...).
Investing in Russian defence development would be a good move, particularly if they secure an order in the end (quite like what Qatar is doing with Jordan's KADDB).
I still prefer the way the UAE are working to move away from oil, but well, wait and see.
Anyone got any hard currency about the Khalids possibly going to the SANG? That would really change the deal, particularly given they are Pakistani tanks.
The fact that their best equipment is US and that they are shopping everywhere but in the US for such showy contrats as MBTs gives some credit to the idea that they want to reduce their strategic dependence on the USA (way to go, guys...).
Investing in Russian defence development would be a good move, particularly if they secure an order in the end (quite like what Qatar is doing with Jordan's KADDB).
I still prefer the way the UAE are working to move away from oil, but well, wait and see.
Anyone got any hard currency about the Khalids possibly going to the SANG? That would really change the deal, particularly given they are Pakistani tanks.
contedicavour
New Member
Saudi armed forces should do more to standardize their equipment, not only within their army, but also with friendly neighboring countries.
UAE has Leclercs, Oman has Challenger 2s, Yemen has mostly Russian MBTs, Saudi has M1s ... what a mess. If one day these forces have to fight together against, say, Iran, their efficiency will be reduced.
cheers
UAE has Leclercs, Oman has Challenger 2s, Yemen has mostly Russian MBTs, Saudi has M1s ... what a mess. If one day these forces have to fight together against, say, Iran, their efficiency will be reduced.
cheers
PlasmaKrab
New Member
Strangely, more and more people are talking about this T-95 since some years,so one can wonder if it is a real project that got canned after the fall of the USSR (like the US Block-III tank), or a self-generating hoax of some sort.
In the second case, anyone would have a hard time finding out where the story originated.Wishful-thinking Russian enthusiasts? Russian military looking to impress their neighbors? Russian engineers looking to impress their clients? 'Misplaced' pre-project drawings? Clueless journalists?
Could it be that a whole government might have fallen for a fictitious project? Thinking about it, I think they may well have...
In the second case, anyone would have a hard time finding out where the story originated.Wishful-thinking Russian enthusiasts? Russian military looking to impress their neighbors? Russian engineers looking to impress their clients? 'Misplaced' pre-project drawings? Clueless journalists?
Could it be that a whole government might have fallen for a fictitious project? Thinking about it, I think they may well have...
Perhaps but I think it was a real project in unknown state od development whitch eventualy got cancelled due to a lack of funds. It is posibility however that project was continued beceuse of improving Russian economy or perhaps it is being sufinanced with some other country.PlasmaKrab said:Strangely, more and more people are talking about this T-95 since some years,so one can wonder if it is a real project that got canned after the fall of the USSR (like the US Block-III tank), or a self-generating hoax of some sort.
In the second case, anyone would have a hard time finding out where the story originated.Wishful-thinking Russian enthusiasts? Russian military looking to impress their neighbors? Russian engineers looking to impress their clients? 'Misplaced' pre-project drawings? Clueless journalists?
Could it be that a whole government might have fallen for a fictitious project? Thinking about it, I think they may well have...
I have read some article in whitch Ivanov claimed to see T-95 prototype so I dont think it is a ghost tank.
Saudi considers T-95 MBTs
Just the same, it will be Russian junk, as for the Saudi`s - they are just looking to spend some money and show the world that they have the latest toy`s that money will buy. Thats why their military is crap, there is hardly standardization with their hardware, Iran will make sure that what they recieve from Putin will be export model crap.
Just the same, it will be Russian junk, as for the Saudi`s - they are just looking to spend some money and show the world that they have the latest toy`s that money will buy. Thats why their military is crap, there is hardly standardization with their hardware, Iran will make sure that what they recieve from Putin will be export model crap.
lets say ıs there a posıbılıty of thıs unıted armed forces to fıght agaınst ıran???? for thıs to happen ıraq should dıveded to 3 parts thıs ıs how ı thınk thıs posıbılıty could come true and 2 years ago turkısh armıes decısıon about lerec was maınly because of tensıons between france and turks ?? maybe ???? thıs doesnt mean that lerec ıs bad equıped or ın my wıev doesnt mean leo ıs better than lerec for turkey mıddle sıze fast and good armed thank ıs enough 54 tons ıs alot even for brıdges ın many turkısh roads could ıt be ???? some arab states tryıng to develop theır own MBT along whıth pakıstan and probly assıstance from a wıllıng country ???? ıncludıng france and maybe russıa ?????
could ıt be ???? some arab states tryıng to develop theır own MBT along whıth pakıstan and probly assıstance from a wıllıng country ???? ıncludıng france and maybe russıa ?????PlasmaKrab
New Member
One point to consider re. Leopard in Turkey rather than anything else is the following: cheap surplus tanks readily available. Nothing beats that on financial grounds. Plus if you buy cheap mothballed Leo2A4s, you can have them upgraded to A5/A6/Ex for cheap too.atilla said:lets say ıs there a posıbılıty of thıs unıted armed forces to fıght agaınst ıran???? for thıs to happen ıraq should dıveded to 3 parts thıs ıs how ı thınk thıs posıbılıty could come true and 2 years ago turkısh armıes decısıon about lerec was maınly because of tensıons between france and turks ?? maybe ???? thıs doesnt mean that lerec ıs bad equıped or ın my wıev doesnt mean leo ıs better than lerec for turkey mıddle sıze fast and good armed thank ıs enough 54 tons ıs alot even for brıdges ın many turkısh roads
A newbuilt Leclerc is probably worth a Leo2A6 from the start (L52 gun, top-notch FC/BMS, modular armor...), but buying them new would have been more expensive. Besides, correct me if I'm wrong, the Turkish forces are already used to Leopard series stuff, use upgraded Leo1s, and their arms industry have extensive industrial agreements with German firms (not to mention all-round economical, cultural, political alliances).
Shifting from Leopard1A4 to Leopard2A4 is certainly easier for tankers and techies than training on something totally new.
I wonder why they didn't consider developping their own MBT, llike they did for the Firtina?
[sorry for the OT bits, doesn't that belong to another thread already?]
yes actually turkısh army ıs usıng a lot leo and all spare parts and other stuff adjusted for leo but what ı thınk ıs sımply turkısh army dındt thınk replacıng leo whıth lerec but replacıng other tanks whıch ıs upgraded by ısrael.. leos are for ıraq syrıa ıran border sınce they use russıan equıpment??? but ın other parts another thank ıs needed when ıt comes to saudıes yes u are rıght they have a lot of fınancıal resourses and lerec ı heared ıs good on desered condıtıons ın mıd east all natıons are usıng rusıan or US or brıtısh tanks only turkey ıs usıng leo ıf ın lıke some one mentıoned saudıes wants to buy thank whıch ıs counter to russıan and US 2 optıons they have leo or lerec and ıf they consıder ırans russıan t serıes as a opponent lerec ıs good optıon .. I my self belıve speed ıs more ımportant ın tank ın desserd condıtıons
Saudi considers T-95 MBTs
Turkey is also part of the NATO alliance and I wonder how much of that played into it. The LEO is a outstanding tank and Turkey made a good decision on the purchase. I feel that Turkey has a good sound army with good command and control with structure. There also a good partner in NATO.
Turkey is also part of the NATO alliance and I wonder how much of that played into it. The LEO is a outstanding tank and Turkey made a good decision on the purchase. I feel that Turkey has a good sound army with good command and control with structure. There also a good partner in NATO.
t serıes used by syrıa by ıraq by ıran ın mıd east condıtıon ıf ı m wrong pls correct me can we say t serıes was succsesful???? ın the hands of ıraq?????
seems to me t serıes cant oparate good ın thıs pat of the world so why not lerec yes ıt ıs not battel proven but why not??
seems to me t serıes cant oparate good ın thıs pat of the world so why not lerec yes ıt ıs not battel proven but why not??
The only existing photo of T-95 MBT being carried by a heavy transport vehicle. Unfortunately it's covered up exposing only the barrel of the gun.