Russias next Strategic bomber development
- Thread starter Haavarla
- Start date
The Bomber is very real it's called PAKDA a Russian Stealth bomber Defence Aviation
The PAK DA is going to be heavily based on Russia’s current supersonic bomber Tupolev Tu-160 and is expected to have it’s maiden flight by 2015.
It's a ambitious project but considering what Russians have learnt from Su-PAKFA and the project being based on already existing and operational Tu-160. I think the out come will be interesting.
The PAK DA is going to be heavily based on Russia’s current supersonic bomber Tupolev Tu-160 and is expected to have it’s maiden flight by 2015.
It's a ambitious project but considering what Russians have learnt from Su-PAKFA and the project being based on already existing and operational Tu-160. I think the out come will be interesting.
Not quite right. Production stopped in 1992. It restarted a few years ago, but "serial production" is probably the wrong term. IIRC the aircraft completed in 2007 & delivered last year was largely assembled from spares, & parts made before production ceased & stored since then. I can't find a clear reference to any others having been delivered yet. And the published sources say one aircraft every one-two years, not 1-2 each year.
Even longer, I'd guess. They can't have very many flying hours for their age, & their flight profiles are far less stressful than for fighters.
IIRC they're upgrading something like 4 or 5 a year, so they'll all be done before long.
I would like to see them get the production of the TU-160 above two a year before 2015. Commander Aleksandr Zelin has to make up his mind. First there upgrading existing TU-160 to have stealth characteristics(what ever that means)Now a new design based on the TU-160 that"Reports also say that the new bomber will have stealth characteristics."
To design and build a prototype of a strategic bomber in 5 to 8 years is impossible seeing that they can hardly produce a bomber thats been around for 20 years. Designing a bomber is nothing like designing a fighter. "Stealth or not. It sounds more like the original modification in a new press release and time frame.Basically last years present re raped and given as this years gift.
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plasmahawk
Member
Hi Forum,
I saw a link to this and then decided to come out of being a troll, in mother russia the forum trolls you, anyway: reading through the Pak DA articles on Lenta and other resources I would not be surprised if the next bomber is based on the Tu-160. However, what most people do not realize is that the TU-160 was originally on a drawing board of 3-4 Construction Bureaus, and some of the designs were quite novel for their time, such that they could not be constructed at the time with the available technologies.
Here is a screenshot out of the book about the Tu-160,
http://www.galleryss.com/Tu160_1.jpg
So even if there are some technologies that will be borrowed from the Tu-160, who knows maybe it will be based on the prototype designs, now that the technology is finally catching up. Sadly I do agree that the tech and brains in Russia now are at its worst, but the same thing has happened to Russia many times over the last couple of hundred years. The folk are resourcefull and resilient, all we can do is wait and see.
oh and the link to the book is here http://www.galleryss.com/TU-160.rar
All the best Comrades!
In Mother Russia the Forum Trolls you...
Plas
I saw a link to this and then decided to come out of being a troll, in mother russia the forum trolls you, anyway: reading through the Pak DA articles on Lenta and other resources I would not be surprised if the next bomber is based on the Tu-160. However, what most people do not realize is that the TU-160 was originally on a drawing board of 3-4 Construction Bureaus, and some of the designs were quite novel for their time, such that they could not be constructed at the time with the available technologies.
Here is a screenshot out of the book about the Tu-160,
http://www.galleryss.com/Tu160_1.jpg
So even if there are some technologies that will be borrowed from the Tu-160, who knows maybe it will be based on the prototype designs, now that the technology is finally catching up. Sadly I do agree that the tech and brains in Russia now are at its worst, but the same thing has happened to Russia many times over the last couple of hundred years. The folk are resourcefull and resilient, all we can do is wait and see.
oh and the link to the book is here http://www.galleryss.com/TU-160.rar
All the best Comrades!
In Mother Russia the Forum Trolls you...
Plas
Hi plasmahawk in the top link the drawing on the right looks like a conceptual drawing from a program launched in the 60s to counter the B-70 Valkyrie but never materialized because of cost and difficulty. The drawing above the photo doesn't look very practical.
When the Soviet Union launched the multi-mission bomber project in the 70s.Topoloev proposed a design named 160m which was a flying wing. Myasishchev project was the M-19 and the Sukhoi was based on the T-4. Myasishchev M-19 was the super sonic variable-geometry wing bomber that is now the TU-160. The Soviet government liked Myasishchev design but decided that Topoloev would build it because of the complexity of the project. So if the new design is not based on the TU-160 and is instead based on the original Topoloev design 160m. It will most likely be a flying wing.
plasmahawk
Member
You are correct Duffy,
The Tupolev pick for the 160 came through for more political favors and because they were already on the Tu-144 path.
However, I must say I do like some of the conceptual designs of that time. Really clever ideas from the US and the Russians, well now that the cold war is on again maybe we will see some of cool designs again.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpq760Xaieg&feature=channel"]cold war is on again[/ame]
As for improvements on the Tu-160 I have read articles about integration of stealth technologies and apparently there was one plane used for testing of the often discussed but never agreed on "plasma" stealth technology. Like many in this thread have said lets wait and see.
Lol!
In Mother Russia the Forum Trolls You
Plas
The Tupolev pick for the 160 came through for more political favors and because they were already on the Tu-144 path.
However, I must say I do like some of the conceptual designs of that time. Really clever ideas from the US and the Russians, well now that the cold war is on again maybe we will see some of cool designs again.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpq760Xaieg&feature=channel"]cold war is on again[/ame]
As for improvements on the Tu-160 I have read articles about integration of stealth technologies and apparently there was one plane used for testing of the often discussed but never agreed on "plasma" stealth technology. Like many in this thread have said lets wait and see.
Lol!
In Mother Russia the Forum Trolls You
Plas
Probably something along the lines of what we did to the B1 to make the B1B. Smooth the body out,Changed the air intakes to hide the compressor face, and a few other tweaks. It cut the RCS by something like 70% with out rebuilding the air frame.
The Tu-160 already reduces RCS. Iirc it was posted on here that it has 1/6th the RCS of a conventional design. The PAK-DA is supposed to be an entirely new project that's currently in the conceptual design stage. I.e. they're busy drawing pictures. Speculating about it is sort of pointless.
I have seen a lot of information on the upgrades being done to the TU-160 and haven't herd that they have reduced the RCS 15%
The PAK-DA was to be based on the TU-160. That's what this thread is about is it not. Plasmahawk and I were discussing which 160? The TU-160 or the 160m. If you don't want people writing about it why don't you just lock the thread.
plasmahawk
Member
I have seen a lot of information on the upgrades being done to the TU-160 and haven't herd that they have reduced the RCS 15% .
Re the RCS I did read in a few places a while back, and not only RCS but stealth RAM type coating (in non specific ways that there was RCS improvements made to the existing Tu-160), especially since they were apparently able to penetrate Alaska Airspace without being noticed
from: stealth sources tu-160
В 2005 году дальняя авиация получит 2 абсолютно новеньких ТУ-160. Последний апгрейд - без потери летно-технических качеств, - он невидим как и 117 Стелс, который еще и не летает практически, по утверждению специалистов.
englished by google translate
In 2005, long-range aviation will receive 2 completely brand new TU-160. Last upgrade - without loss of flight performance qualities - it is invisible as the 117 Stealth, which still does not fly in practice, according to experts.
here are the two sources about Tu-160 stealth, as an FYI
Russia in talks over new bomber-04/01/2005-Flight International
Russians claim bomber flights over US territory went undetected-24/04/2006-London-Flight International
Plas
Re the RCS I did read in a few places a while back, and not only RCS but stealth RAM type coating (in non specific ways that there was RCS improvements made to the existing Tu-160), especially since they were apparently able to penetrate Alaska Airspace without being noticed
from: stealth sources tu-160
В 2005 году дальняя авиация получит 2 абсолютно новеньких ТУ-160. Последний апгрейд - без потери летно-технических качеств, - он невидим как и 117 Стелс, который еще и не летает практически, по утверждению специалистов.
englished by google translate
In 2005, long-range aviation will receive 2 completely brand new TU-160. Last upgrade - without loss of flight performance qualities - it is invisible as the 117 Stealth, which still does not fly in practice, according to experts.
here are the two sources about Tu-160 stealth, as an FYI
Russia in talks over new bomber-04/01/2005-Flight International
Russians claim bomber flights over US territory went undetected-24/04/2006-London-Flight International
Plas
It's extremely difficult to take such a report seriously, if it's suggesting a Tu-160 with LO modifications attained levels of signature reduction comparable to the F-117.
I'm not trying to shut down your discussion. I'm just posting what my opinion on the subject is.
I would agree trying to say exactly how the plan will look is speculation. I just wonder which design it will be based on. Even if its the TU-160 it may not look anything like the TU-160. The structure of the TU-160 is the floor and not the body so it could look drastically different. If its based on the flying wing then things get interesting.
The new ones I would agree have reduced RCS. The older ones pre 2005 (14 AC ) Were to have a three stage upgrade mostly electronics and new counter measures. Are all three stages carried out simultaneously? and is counter measures LO coating?
Since you can see both the F-117 and the TU-160 parked on the tarmac because neither is invisible. Yes the TU-160 is as invisible as the F-117. Misleading but not BS. The TU-160 having a lower RCS ???????????
I would like to know how the Russian government knows what the US tracks and doesn't track on radar. Just because an F-15 doesn't show up to escort doesn't mean it's undetected.
Since you can see both the F-117 and the TU-160 parked on the tarmac because neither is invisible. Yes the TU-160 is as invisible as the F-117. Misleading but not BS. The TU-160 having a lower RCS ???????????
I would like to know how the Russian government knows what the US tracks and doesn't track on radar. Just because an F-15 doesn't show up to escort doesn't mean it's undetected.
I really like the flying wing concept proposed by tupolev. I believe the design was not too advanced for its time. Given the time and funds I've quite sure Tupolev would have produced that flying wing bomber, which seems very stealthy in design. But perhaps cost was the stumbling block.
But with the technology advancement now, I'm sure such kind of plane would be able to be produced at lower cost than at the time it was proposed.
But with the technology advancement now, I'm sure such kind of plane would be able to be produced at lower cost than at the time it was proposed.
I agree. if this was a daylight mission the F-15 jocks missed out on a photo op.I would like to know how the Russian government knows what the US tracks and doesn't track on radar. Just because an F-15 doesn't show up to escort doesn't mean it's undetected.