Russia's Military Expansion

Boatteacher

Active Member
But the fact that Putin is a liar doesn't make Merkel any less two-faced. It simply means that they're both of a kind. I don't think most people in this thread have illusions about Putin. But about Merkel? ;)
I'm confused.

I think Merkel is a goose in connection with her whole immigration and refugee approach.

I also think Germany is hypocritical in connection with the economic aspects of the EU; taking the benefits for itself of the lower exchange rate for her exports (as compared with what an independent currency would be) without sharing that benefit with the countries disadvantaged by Germany's export success. That's not how a proper federation like Australia or the US works and it's no wonder the whole EU structure is under strain.

But I'm not aware of whatever it is might be prompting that statement in the context of this thread. She was once the most dovish in the attitude to Russia and I've not read anything suggesting she's now what you would call a hawk.

What is it that has prompted that statement?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
If you really think Merkel and Putin are two of the same kind when one compares their actions and believes then you are way too far down the apologetic path IMHO.

And I am sorry to see that.
I'm afraid I don't follow. I was under the impression that I made it clear, but perhaps I haven't, that I have no desire or intention to apologize for Putin. I don't think that two-faced or blatantly hypocritical behavior by Merkel or Obama in any way make Putin less despicable. What I however want to emphasize is that major Western powers have behaved in a manner that is easily as two-faced and fundamentally dishonest as Russia denying their involvement in Ukraine. Their recent attacks on Russia over the fate of Aleppo are a perfect example. This isn't an attempt to protect moderates and I don't see much genuine concern for civilians (consider what is preventing the civilians from evacuating, consider the behavior of the Saudis in Yemen, and yet who is the finger pointed at?). The bulk of the rebels in Idlib and Aleppo provinces belong to groups that are jihadis and extremists, with a laundry list of war crimes. And yet the west is pulling out all the stops diplomatically to save them from defeat. The same country that is waging a "war on terror" is trying to bail out groups that they would have called terrorists if they didn't need them to do their dirty work. But when it comes to the US, this sort of behavior is typical, or at least has been over the past couple of decades. This time it's worse then before, but not unexpected. Why is Merkel getting on this bandwagon? Does she seriously think that the fall of one rebel-held city will suddenly send another huge wave of refugees? Is she under the impression that the war will end sooner if the rebels hold Aleppo? Does she/Germany have a stake in the fall of Assad? Is it that they're so thrilled with the results in Libya that they want to see the same happen elsewhere? Or is it that she's lost backing to keep pressuring Russia over Ukraine, but doesn't want to give up and now sees this as something else she can use to push for continued and expanded EU sanctions? Either way it's impressively slimy, given the human cost of supporting groups like these, be it diplomatically, financially, or militarily.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I'm confused.

I think Merkel is a goose in connection with her whole immigration and refugee approach.

I also think Germany is hypocritical in connection with the economic aspects of the EU; taking the benefits for itself of the lower exchange rate for her exports (as compared with what an independent currency would be) without sharing that benefit with the countries disadvantaged by Germany's export success. That's not how a proper federation like Australia or the US works and it's no wonder the whole EU structure is under strain.

But I'm not aware of whatever it is might be prompting that statement in the context of this thread. She was once the most dovish in the attitude to Russia and I've not read anything suggesting she's now what you would call a hawk.

What is it that has prompted that statement?
I don't think she was ever really a dove. I think she saw Russia as a potential strategic partner, but they couldn't come to an agreement about the terms of the partnership. It probably started with Ukraine, where Russia was unwilling to let the EU push the association agreement down Yanukovich's throat without a fight. And the Germans were genuinely surprised by how far Russia was willing to go. They probably assumed that if they could replace the government of Ukraine with a loyal one, Russia would have to back off like they did after the Orange Revolution. It came as a nasty surprise that it wasn't over. That Russia would rather send Ukraine into an economic tailspin then let Germany take over the Ukrainian market (read sometime about what the EU association agreement has done to Ukrainian businesses and their market share ;) ) probably came as a surprise. And she's been butting heads with Putin since then.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I tend to distinguish between posturing and action before getting too alarmed. I also tend to take what I read in the press with a grain of salt.

But this report (sourced to the Daily Star), if true, crosses the action line.

"VLADIMIR Putin has reportedly told officials to fly relatives living abroad back to Russia, leaving many worried about the reason for the “urgent” call.

The call extended to elderly relatives overseas and children, even if they are in the middle of the school year.

The newspaper says the edict applies to “administration staff, regional administrators, politicians of all levels and employees of public corporations” and that “anyone who fails to act will put their chances of promotion at risk.”

That is a really unusual action to take. I can't really think of a historic precedent.
Putin is ex KGB and sometimes old habits diehard. Maybe it's a way of getting relatives back where Putin can potentially use them as "hostages" to ensure loyalty to Putin.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
I do not believe the Russians see themselves on Par with NATO militarily, but are spending the treasury to catch up and modernize as rapidly as possible.
The trouble with that is that Russia nowadays has less than 10% of the GDP of NATO, & anything remotely approaching even local military parity requires NATO not coming out to play. If Russia ever manages to get NATO countries worried enough that they decide to compete, they could raise their spending enough to burn off Russia without even noticing the extra effort.
 

Toblerone

Banned Member
The trouble with that is that Russia nowadays has less than 10% of the GDP of NATO, & anything remotely approaching even local military parity requires NATO not coming out to play. If Russia ever manages to get NATO countries worried enough that they decide to compete, they could raise their spending enough to burn off Russia without even noticing the extra effort.
First you would have to convince the people that Russia poses an actual threat to the country, otherwise there is going to be serious political cost to be paid, if the military budget is increased. Money squandering scandals etc.

Most european governments cannot appeal to nationalism any more, for better or worse. Especially now that they are actually feeling the results of those far-away wars that the USA dragged them into.

GDP is counterbalanced by an all-consuming welfare system of an aging population, it decides elections. Europeans don't care about new ballistic missiles, the greatest distance they will go to support ukrainian territorial sovereignty is a mouse click on the facebook like button.

You are talking "NATO", I am talking european governments. Political parties.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The trouble with that is that Russia nowadays has less than 10% of the GDP of NATO, & anything remotely approaching even local military parity requires NATO not coming out to play. If Russia ever manages to get NATO countries worried enough that they decide to compete, they could raise their spending enough to burn off Russia without even noticing the extra effort.
I don't think there is any serious intent to reach parity with NATO. I think the intent is to raise the cost of local military action against Russia unacceptably high, and requiring a considerable buildup that would be visible in advance, while continuing to play the nuclear deterrence card at the strategic level. I think Russia has much more to worry about in Central Asia then it does in Europe, Ukraine excepted. Of course if Kiev decides on another decisive offensive in the east, that will involve direct Russian deployment.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I'm afraid I don't follow. I was under the impression that I made it clear, but perhaps I haven't, that I have no desire or intention to apologize for Putin. I don't think that two-faced or blatantly hypocritical behavior by Merkel or Obama in any way make Putin less despicable. What I however want to emphasize is that major Western powers have behaved in a manner that is easily as two-faced and fundamentally dishonest as Russia denying their involvement in Ukraine. Their recent attacks on Russia over the fate of Aleppo are a perfect example. This isn't an attempt to protect moderates and I don't see much genuine concern for civilians (consider what is preventing the civilians from evacuating, consider the behavior of the Saudis in Yemen, and yet who is the finger pointed at?). The bulk of the rebels in Idlib and Aleppo provinces belong to groups that are jihadis and extremists, with a laundry list of war crimes. And yet the west is pulling out all the stops diplomatically to save them from defeat. The same country that is waging a "war on terror" is trying to bail out groups that they would have called terrorists if they didn't need them to do their dirty work. But when it comes to the US, this sort of behavior is typical, or at least has been over the past couple of decades. This time it's worse then before, but not unexpected. Why is Merkel getting on this bandwagon? Does she seriously think that the fall of one rebel-held city will suddenly send another huge wave of refugees? Is she under the impression that the war will end sooner if the rebels hold Aleppo? Does she/Germany have a stake in the fall of Assad? Is it that they're so thrilled with the results in Libya that they want to see the same happen elsewhere? Or is it that she's lost backing to keep pressuring Russia over Ukraine, but doesn't want to give up and now sees this as something else she can use to push for continued and expanded EU sanctions? Either way it's impressively slimy, given the human cost of supporting groups like these, be it diplomatically, financially, or militarily.
See this is the problem. By pretending that being outspoken agsinst the heavy bombardements of Aleppo is comparable to annecting parts of a neighbouring country while blatantly lying into the faces of potential partners in europe only too laugh about it later you are putting two behaviours onto the same level which don't belong there.

The world is not black and white but shades of grey (no pun intended...). But not all shades of grey are equal and pretending that the actions of Germany/Merkel's Government are comparable to the ones of Putin's Russia is heavily apologetic.

By the way, Germany didn't vote for the Lybian adventure. And Sweden also heavily protested Russias and Assads behaviour in Syria. Are they also equally two-faced a**holes, those aggressive warmongering Swedes?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
See this is the problem. By pretending that being outspoken agsinst the heavy bombardements of Aleppo is comparable to annecting parts of a neighbouring country while blatantly lying into the faces of potential partners in europe only too laugh about it later you are putting two behaviours onto the same level which don't belong there.
I would say supporting Syrian rebels is far worse then supporting Ukrainian ones at this point in time. I would also say that being outspoken against Russian actions, while ignoring the actions of others that did worse is silly at best, and in all likelihood just a political calculation. But my main issue here is her timing. It honestly looks like she's just backing up the USA on this issue, who are trying to bail out the more extremist portion of the rebels from defeat. Yes, I would say that trying to save al-Nusra, ash-Sham, and Jaesh al-Islam is worse then annexing Crimea. How many people died from the annexation of Crimea? And what happened to the quality of life in Crimea? How many civilians were killed by the three groups above?

The world is not black and white but shades of grey (no pun intended...). But not all shades of grey are equal and pretending that the actions of Germany/Merkel's Government are comparable to the ones of Putin's Russia is heavily apologetic.

By the way, Germany didn't vote for the Lybian adventure. And Sweden also heavily protested Russias and Assads behaviour in Syria. Are they also equally two-faced a**holes, those aggressive warmongering Swedes?
It does beg some questions. Such as, why now? What makes Aleppo special? Did they also protest heavy French bombings of Raqqa? Or take such a decisive stand on Syrian use of barrel bombs? If the position is a humanitarian one, then it would have been consistent. But it's not. Which says to me that there is some other, political, motivation. I don't know enough about Swedish foreign policy to say anything specific there, but what someone doesn't do is as telling as what they do.

EDIT: Just to be clear, on the Ukraine question my main problem with Putin is his actions in Eastern Ukraine. I don't have a problem with the annexation of a majority-Russian peninsula, whose denizens met Russian troops with flags and flowers, posing with them for selfies, protesting outside Ukrainian army units to get them to surrender. My problem is that he f*cked up big time in the east, where instead of either letting it go, or taking it quickly and decisively, he played a half-assed game of trying to use the tensions there as leverage, failing to realize that Kiev didn't care, and was perfectly happy to have the conflict escalate. Now the death toll is in 5 digits, and the region is devastated, without anything tangible being accomplished.
 

Boatteacher

Active Member
I would say supporting Syrian rebels is far worse then supporting Ukrainian ones at this point in time. I would also say that being outspoken against Russian actions, while ignoring the actions of others that did worse is silly at best, and in all likelihood just a political calculation. But my main issue here is her timing. It honestly looks like she's just backing up the USA on this issue, who are trying to bail out the more extremist portion of the rebels from defeat. Yes, I would say that trying to save al-Nusra, ash-Sham, and Jaesh al-Islam is worse then annexing Crimea. How many people died from the annexation of Crimea? And what happened to the quality of life in Crimea? How many civilians were killed by the three groups above?



It does beg some questions. Such as, why now? What makes Aleppo special? Did they also protest heavy French bombings of Raqqa? Or take such a decisive stand on Syrian use of barrel bombs? If the position is a humanitarian one, then it would have been consistent. But it's not. Which says to me that there is some other, political, motivation. I don't know enough about Swedish foreign policy to say anything specific there, but what someone doesn't do is as telling as what they do.

.
I hear what you are saying. Let me put it back to you from the point of view of generic "Western" eyes (by which I simply mean eyes divorced from the machinations of power and maybe naive as to deeper agendas).

A spontaneous democracy movement is crushed in Syria by a murderous dictator which gives rise to a civil war participated in (originally) by elements of the original democracy movement and a range of other players varying from (apparently) benign to being a threat to the whole world.

The latter factor means some sort of intervention is mandatory as much as many countries in the West hate the thought of yet another ME quagmire. No one wants to put boots on the ground. Supporting the regime after what it has done is intolerable. So you support the most benign factions you can find and use air power to try and degrade ISIS (not the regime).

I know your view would be that the US keeps supporting factions that turn bad and I can only take your word for that (which is not to doubt it; just admit I have no better source of knowledge). At some point they should have learnt their lessons and stopped that approach. I would get the impression they eventually did; putting more effort into the Kurds, who of course come with their own baggage. But at least the Kurds seem to be a viable force, but one with a limited idea of their area of operations.

The real problem with this approach turned out to be that it offered no long term solution. The US looked dumb in its choice of partners and slow learning, but not really malevolent. Its objectives seemed to be to get ISIS out and settle the country back down, but I've not seen evidence of more selfish agendas involving friendly regimes or bases (and frankly after their experience in the ME over the last 15 years if anyone did believe that, they should be taken out and shot for stupidity)

Ukraine was not a murderous regime killing its own people before Russia sponsored a civil war there. What Russia did was a example of 1937-9 like use of minorities to destabilize another country with a view to its annexation. That was all meant to be behind us; stuff you don't do any more because the world was meant to have learnt its lessons.

I think on the whole that's worse.

I can't comment on what the French did in Raqqa. I'll admit the reporting of the conflict here is weak. I do know that the ROE for Australian forces are incredibly civilian protective.

But as my previous posts have reluctantly admitted, the US lead approach and indeed any approach that doesn't kill a lot of people didn't look like it would ever get anywhere.

In the end a violent battle to reinstall the old regime might be the only answer. But I doubt the west could ever have brought itself to do that.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
The US and West should not worried much on Russia act now. It's much limited and constrained than what Soviet capable of. Afterall Russia current economic situation (relative wise) is far weaker than what Soviet can yield in 50's-70's.

China is the one that have the money and ambition that can give more challange to US and West interest. Russian and China now just being partnered based on circumstances situation..both can not be called real partner like US and the West..since both know there're still some misstrust among them residu of cold war..
However with US and West continue to try blocked any move frm both China and Russia, it's just mattered of time for both of them feel more cornered and will turn to each other more..

Russia have more raw materials and more advanced deffence technology, China have much more money and much bigger industrial productivities..so far both of them complement each other needs..
Whether they are going to be more permanent partner in confronting US and West..well it's also depend on what West movement to them..While many non US interest hoping Hillary win the ellection, many in Moscow and Beijing hoping for Trump..simply because they see Hillary will bring more continuation on current US and West standing toward both Beijing and Moscow..

Will be interested to see how this progressing..
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Can we validate this equipment or do you feel that it is pure propaganda?
Well that's just it. The article pretends to contain information, but it really doesn't contain much of anything. Russian industrial chiefs, and politicians, love using the phrase "has no analogues anywhere in the world" to imply some unique advanced capability. Except the phrase is often only technically true (nobody has an analogue of the BMD-4M for example, but not because they can't develop one, rather because nobody else sees a reason to bother). And often the phrase is flat out untrue, because the speaker is ignorant, or simply dishonest. Russia has some closed projects that are not discussed publicly, so this could refer to something that's under wraps. But we have no way to evaluate the truth of the statement. Or it could be a reference to some existing EW/ELINT/SIGINT/EA capabilities. It's just too vague. To top it off, the english in the article is bad. And no specific nomenclature is mentioned. As far as I can tell, the article is just rubbish. I'd safely ignore it until we have something specific to go on.

And some more food for thought. Generally the standard of journalism in Russia is extremely low. Major newspapers will print garbage, inaccurate junk, and sensationalist titles worthy of the yellow press, to sell papers, to get online views, etc. To top if off, RT is a well known propaganda mouthpiece. Put the two together and you get toilet-paper quality press. Like a dumber, scummier version of Fox News, if that's possible. Unfortunately good Russian sources are in Russian. And the few good english-language ones cost an arm and a leg. I would happily recommend Moscow Defense Brief, for example, but the cost of the subscription is frankly ridiculous, for a magazine that only comes out quarterly. The do allow one free article per issue, on their website, but you don't get to choose which.

This makes it hard to find reliable defense news on Russia. Personally I rely heavily on blogs and unofficial publications, but even there you need to do considerable research and the reliability is often questionable.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
What I however want to emphasize is that major Western powers have behaved in a manner that is easily as two-faced and fundamentally dishonest as Russia denying their involvement in Ukraine. Their recent attacks on Russia over the fate of Aleppo are a perfect example. This isn't an attempt to protect moderates and I don't see much genuine concern for civilians (consider what is preventing the civilians from evacuating, consider the behavior of the Saudis in Yemen, and yet who is the finger pointed at?). The bulk of the rebels in Idlib and Aleppo provinces belong to groups that are jihadis and extremists, with a laundry list of war crimes..
Well said.

It certainly isn't about concern for ordinary citizens trapped in Aleppo but over other issues. The fall of Aleppo will not bring Assad closer to defeating his enemies but it will be a huge boost for him politically and his backer, Russia. For the West the fall of Aleppo will only highlight the fact that all they've previously done, including their attempts to limit Russia's influence in the conflict, has failed and that some level of compromise with Russia - who will apply the needed pressure on Assad to make compromises - is the only way the war will end. In the meantime, ordinary Syrians will continue to suffer while outside parties play a large part in determining their fate.

''Are there alternative scenarios, if not solutions? In Syria there usually are because there are so many players inside and outside the country, all claiming hypocritically to be acting in the interests of the Syrian people but invariably consulting their own interests first, second and third. It is difficult to see where any outside force willing to break the siege will come from. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, normally so belligerent on behalf of the Syrian insurgents, has been surprisingly mute about the fate of Aleppo. This is probably because he is more concerned with the threat from the Syrian Kurds and on fostering goods relations with President Putin with whom he has just signed a gas deal. A further aspect of the Syrian crisis tends to be underestimated in the West which is over-obsessed with Russian intervention. Iran and Shia communities in Iraq and Lebanon see the struggle for Syria as a struggle for their own existence. They provide many of the fighters attacking East Aleppo and they are not going to give up until they win.''

Talk of a no-fly zone over Aleppo distracts from more realistic plans to save those dying and starving in Syria | The Independent
 

A.V. Berg

New Member
The world is not black and white but shades of grey (no pun intended...). But not all shades of grey are equal and pretending that the actions of Germany/Merkel's Government are comparable to the ones of Putin's Russia is heavily apologetic.

By the way, Germany didn't vote for the Lybian adventure. And Sweden also heavily protested Russias and Assads behaviour in Syria. Are they also equally two-faced a**holes, those aggressive warmongering Swedes?
Invasion often carries the same moral weight as political discourse.

The semi-dismemberment of the Ukraine is a telling example. By unreservedly supporting the Maidan movement, Western powers provided a carte blanche to the opposition to pursue increasingly illiberal policies which triggered the Donbass War. Just what was an average Russian-speaking Ukrainian supposed to think, watching Senator McCain telling Right Sector crowd in Kiev that 'America is with you'? Does the esteemed Senator carry some responsibility for the radicalisation of Ukrainian politics and for the use of paramilitaries in East or is it all irrelevant in the face of Putin's gambit?

Similarly, one can argue that the failure of Minsk I and II accords was partly due to the fact that the Poroshenko regime was never explicitly and publicly censured for violating the cease-fire on numerous occasions and for not carrying out some of the key-points of the aforementioned agreements. Do Merkel and Hollande, not carry at least some responsibility for creating a situation whereby, the Ukrainian leadership feels it will be supported by the West regardless of what it does?

I would argue that the case of Yemen is even more poignant. Virtual silence amongst Western politicians as to Saudi atrocities only strengthens the belief amongst the latter that no-one will be too concerned with a bombed wedding and a funeral every now and then and with hundreds of deliberately poisoned wells in arid villages. In Yemen, British, French and American responsibility borders on outright complicity given that it is the governments of these nations that see no problem in selling arms to the Saudis.
 

gazzzwp

Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #59
Invasion often carries the same moral weight as political discourse.

The semi-dismemberment of the Ukraine is a telling example. By unreservedly supporting the Maidan movement, Western powers provided a carte blanche to the opposition to pursue increasingly illiberal policies which triggered the Donbass War. Just what was an average Russian-speaking Ukrainian supposed to think, watching Senator McCain telling Right Sector crowd in Kiev that 'America is with you'? Does the esteemed Senator carry some responsibility for the radicalisation of Ukrainian politics and for the use of paramilitaries in East or is it all irrelevant in the face of Putin's gambit?
I have to fundamentally disagree with this. A show of support from the US and the West was nothing more than words. When masked gunmen started appearing at the town halls in Russian speaking tows inciting people to take up the fight then that is the point at which lives started to be ruined and the situation turned ugly.

Who is to say that Russia would not have benefited greatly from an economically strong Ukraine? Who is to say that Ukraine would not have acted as a bridge between Russia and the West for sharing of economic skills and human values?

Putin and his thugs soon threw that idea out of the window and instead sent in tanks and missiles to show the west that it is they not the west that insists that the iron curtain divide remain in place as it more or less has for the past 70 years.

So my question to you is who first brought in their army? The West or Russia? Before anyone shouts "Right Wing Ukrainians" then let it be known that Right Wing activists exist in Germany, UK, France and everywhere. That is purely political and has nothing to do with the merciless slaughter imposed by Putin on the poor (Russian) speaking people of the Ukraine.

Similarly, one can argue that the failure of Minsk I and II accords was partly due to the fact that the Poroshenko regime was never explicitly and publicly censured for violating the cease-fire on numerous occasions and for not carrying out some of the key-points of the aforementioned agreements. Do Merkel and Hollande, not carry at least some responsibility for creating a situation whereby, the Ukrainian leadership feels it will be supported by the West regardless of what it does?
Who had more to lose from the violation of the ceasefire? The Russian backed rebels armed with the latest Russian weaponry and unreservedly backed by a massive army, or poorly armed Ukrainians trying to protect what is left of their homeland? I have my doubts. The west has been very reserved and measured regarding arming the Ukrainian forces and mostly again it has been words.

I would argue that the case of Yemen is even more poignant. Virtual silence amongst Western politicians as to Saudi atrocities only strengthens the belief amongst the latter that no-one will be too concerned with a bombed wedding and a funeral every now and then and with hundreds of deliberately poisoned wells in arid villages. In Yemen, British, French and American responsibility borders on outright complicity given that it is the governments of these nations that see no problem in selling arms to the Saudis.
This one I would not disagree with. It is clear that the world is becoming dangerously polarised with China, Russia, Iran in some sort of alliance with the US, UAE, the West, Japan, etc on the other heading eventually one might be forced to conclude towards a horrific world war.

The question is who wants it the most and who is trying to avoid it? I'm hoping that this thread will address that question.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
It is clear that the world is becoming dangerously polarised with China, Russia, Iran in some sort of alliance with the US, UAE, the West, Japan, etc on the other heading eventually one might be forced to conclude towards a horrific world war.
Not as clear cut as that. Iran is not in an alliance with Russia; both share the same interests and the relationship is mutually beneficial but I wouldn't sat that they are linked by an alliance. In fact, when it comes to Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria; Iran's actions there also benefit the U.S. ......

Even when Iran was declared a member of the so called ''Axis of Evil'' it still cooperated in rolling back the Taliban. In fact, Iran was involved in helping defeat the Taliban years before 11th, September, 2001 - at a time when U.S. allies like Saudi were bankrolling the Talibs and at a time when the Northern Alliance was begging for U.S. assistance. Sure Iran meddled in Iraq when the Americans were there but this to be expected as Iraq shares a land border with Iran and has a large Shia population.

As for a UAE and the U.S, if anything the UAE's actions in Yemen do not benefit the U.S. This despite the UAE having a close relationship with the U.S; including U.S. military assistance in the event of an external threat on the UAE and axxess to U.s. weaponry. When viewed from this angle, the UAE should be doing more to help in Syria and Iraq to defeat IS but it's not!

What's worrying is not the polarisation taking place - it's always been there - but the inability or unwillingness of countries to learn from their past mistakes and to continue making flawed decisions that will later come back to haunt them.

[Inside Story - Are Russia And US Entering New Cold War?]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuNut2qD6Xg
 
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