Russia wants French Helicopter Carriers...

Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The Mistral is a different class of ship from the Kiev-class. Those were heavy-cruisers with ASW roles. Second of all the development of a modern equivalent would take a lot of time. 5-10 years. If they are ordered abroad, 2-4 years is a realistic timeframe. Thirdly it's also about getting the technology transfer, so that after the intial purchase of 1-2 ships, another 3-4 would be built in Russia. And of course domestic shipbuilding is notorious for delays, and competency issues. The hope is that foreign competition will do them some good (as well as transfer of technology). I do hope the deal comes through after all, it would be a big boost to the VMF.
 
K

KiwiRob

Well-Known Member
If you are going to build some of these in a Russian yard then I believe that Admiralty would be the best bet, they are far and away the best large yard in Russia.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Time will tell, but you're probably right. Sevmash isn't likely to land the order, as it's taken some major hits with the Gorshkov issue.

In terms of shipyard status in general iirc Zvezdochka is in good shape. But they mainly do subs.
 
S

SkolZkiy

New Member
Agree - SevMash is busy with other orders and by the way there other yards in our country. I think Admiralty amd Komsomolsk-on-Amur.
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
This has been incompletely reported.

The Russians also made it very clear that they are looking at open tender as they believe that there are similar offerings available from other countries - they made specific mention of The Netherlands and Spain
 
K

KiwiRob

Well-Known Member
Feanor said:
Time will tell, but you're probably right. Sevmash isn't likely to land the order, as it's taken some major hits with the Gorshkov issue.

In terms of shipyard status in general iirc Zvezdochka is in good shape. But they mainly do subs.
Click to expand...
Zvezdochka is mainly a repair facility for subs and a yard where they decomission old nuclear subs, they haven't really built anything except a few trawlers, I doubt they counld build a complicated vessel like a LHD.

I really think Admiralty it probably the best bet, they are a well run yard, they build efficiently and I believe have very little problems with corruption. It's a pity that the Ukraine is independant, some of the big yards on the Black Sea could easily build these vessels.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
gf0012-aust said:
This has been incompletely reported.

The Russians also made it very clear that they are looking at open tender as they believe that there are similar offerings available from other countries - they made specific mention of The Netherlands and Spain
Click to expand...
I ran into articles that spun it both ways. But the ships that Netherlands and Spain can offer would be significantly smaller then the Mistral class. Which is why I'm not even sure how this will go. So far, at least in the press, the Mistral is the favorite.

EDIT: Zvyozdochka also builds new subs quite successfully. Iirc the Project 636 is built there.
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Feanor said:
I ran into articles that spun it both ways. But the ships that Netherlands and Spain can offer would be significantly smaller then the Mistral class. Which is why I'm not even sure how this will go. So far, at least in the press, the Mistral is the favorite.
Click to expand...
The Spanish vessels are comparable in capability to the Mistral. Its not the size of the vessel, its the role of the vessel that counts.

the asset needs to be assessed against the functional requirement. that can be very very different based on what the needs actually are.
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Feanor said:
... But the ships that Netherlands and Spain can offer would be significantly smaller then the Mistral class. ...
Click to expand...
Juan Carlos 1 is 30 metres longer, & a few thousand tons heavier, than Mistral. The Netherlands has no amphibious ships the size of Mistral in service, but they can build them. Johann de Witt is not greatly smaller than Mistral, & the builders have designs for larger Enforcer versions.

The planned Dutch JSS is a combined logistical & amphibious transport ship, & is about the size of JC1. A purely amphibious ship based on the same design should not be difficult to build.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Points taken. I guess we'll have to wait and see if anything comes of it.
 
P

Pat-fr-33

New Member
It will be more a political decision than a purely technical question.
I really think it will be done because this ship is not very expensive (less than 200.000.000 euros) and mostly build using civilian standards, so there are not a lot of highly technical "secrets" and the russion navy will probably adapt some of there communication systems.
And if the russian navy want a first ship very quickly, they can buy the one that is actually in production for e delivery in one or two years only.
 
M

mrgeorgeallison

New Member
Lacking the funds.

The Russian Kommersant business daily confirmed on Tuesday the possibility of the deal, but said Russian military experts were skeptical about it.

"The Russian Navy lacks the means to finance even the production of corvettes and missile boats, let alone the purchase of large combat ships," the paper quoted Mikhail Barabanov, science editor of the Eksport Vooruzheny (Arms Export) journal, as saying.

Ruslan Pukhov, director of the Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, said "although the practice of arms imports will become more common in Russia in the future, the Mistral deal is rather questionable from a military standpoint, as well as Russia's hopes for the transfer of advanced technologies from France."

Russia in talks on buying French warship | Navy News at DefenceTalk
 
W

Wall83

Member
Its seems more and more that the deal will happen. Today a Mistral ship made port in St. Petersburg and will be shown off to military personnel and the public.
Also Putin will visit France on November 26-27, when a final decision on the purchase is expected to be made.

French warship in arms deal arrives in St. Petersburg | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

Estonia dont like it it seems

Estonia alarmed over Russia's intention to buy French warship | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire
 
K

KiwiRob

Well-Known Member
I can't understand why Russian shipbuilders oppose the deal, they are going to get to build 4 of them under license, nor do I understand Estonia's concerns, I don't think Russia has any interest in them at all, they don't have anything of significance which Russia would want.

I'm picking Admiralty as the yard which would build them, with perhaps Baltisky as the outside option, they have the facilities and did build Kirovs.
 
O

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
KiwiRob said:
nor do I understand Estonia's concerns, I don't think Russia has any interest in them at all, they don't have anything of significance which Russia would want.
Click to expand...
The Baltic’s are geopolitically critical to Russia, it’s why they have been constantly invaded byor under the hegemony of Moscow. Consider this; in 1989 NATO's borders were over a thousand miles away from any major Russian city, now they are 100 from Russia’s second city. The Estonians know their new found independence from Russian control is a precious thing, and they also know that eventually the Russians will be back. This is their constant fear.

So an increased Sea Lift capability would seem threatening to the Estonian military, as now their contingency plans have to include a credible amphibious threat.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
There was a credible threat from the Baltic Fleet to begin with. In that regard they should be more worried about the Iskander brigade being formed in LenVo. But yes it seems like the deal will go through afterall. Here's MDBs take on it: Moscow Defense Brief

I don't necessarily agree. But the problem that Russian shipbuilders have is that while the one purchase is almost guaranteed, the additional domestic builds are not. Also this sets a dangerous precedent.
 
O

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
Feanor said:
There was a credible threat from the Baltic Fleet to begin with. In that regard they should be more worried about the Iskander brigade being formed in LenVo. But yes it seems like the deal will go through afterall. Here's MDBs take on it: Moscow Defense Brief
Click to expand...
Well considering the Baltic fleet’s current sea lift capacity this would represent a significant increase in the threat it poses to the Estonians.

I would assume they ARE worried about missile deployments in their neck of the woods.

In any case Estonia's security relies on the commitment of the major European powers, perhaps they view any arms deal between France and Russia as a negative outcome.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top