Russia - General Discussion.

crest

Member
This is not correct. Airspace violations do not happen as often as some people seem to think. Some are mixing up aircraft entering ADIZ, with aircraft entering national airspace. For example Russian aircraft with their transponders turned off routinely enter Norwegian ADIZ and are greeted by Norwegian F-35. However it is extremely rare that they enter Norwegian airspace.

I am not aware that Russia and the US routinely violate each other airspace, at least not for the last 10 years or so. If I am wrong please provide links.

There is lots of these and test there mostly as you said ADIZ it's fairly regular around Alaska Canada, it's also was come in Syria. Yes it's mostly ADIZ as you say but the it has also been more then that truth is the adzid is regarded as about the same. With the same military escort jets flying you out. These things happen on the sea lanes aswell and under it from time to time. To be honest the u.s is probably hands down the world's most prolific breaker of these rules as it basically didn't recognize them or in the cases were it does simply doesn't care. There are fairly safe not to as noone actually wants a war with the u.s by shooting at it's jets unless they believe the u.s is about to bomb them anyways.


Regarding the recent Russian provocations: they are clearly escalating their provocations. Sending 20 drones into Poland is a massive escalation. Also have 3 MiG-31 flying in NATO airspace for 12 minutes is a significant escalation compared to previous airspace violations. And yesterday Copenhagen airport and Oslo airport were temporarily closed due to drones. NATO cannot accept these escalations and must take action. Russia must understand they cannot keep on escalating this grayzone warfare (because that's what it is, when you include the increasing number of sabotage against water supplies, underwater cables, bombs on DHL planes, and GPS spoofing) without facing consequences.

Some things NATO can consider:
* stop providing tourist visa to Russians,
* increase support to Ukraine
* enforce sanctions
* inspect and if necessary arrest shadow fleet ships that enter territorial waters and that constitute an environmental risk and/or are not sea worthy
* provide long range missiles to Ukraine, and put no restrictions on their use
* If Russia keeps sending planes into NATO airspace then they should first be given warnings. If they don't immediately heed the warnings and turn back they should be shot down. Enough is enough.

If Russia keeps escalating, NATO should implement a no-fly zone in Western Ukraine and start helping Ukraine shoot down cruise missiles in Western Ukraine. North Korea and China are actively supporting Russia, and NK soldiers are now fighting in Europe, killing Europeans. NATO has since 2014 done "everything" to avoid escalation, and now we see the results. NATO must start to hit back, to send a clear message to Russia. Enough is enough.

That's alot of response to a non incident it also opens the door to Russia responding to things like u.s and NATO weapons entering there airspace. They have not chosen this option so far why escalate the trio wire for impactful reactions to what is normally regarded as a non-even?
I ask you this seriously what is the goal here?
We're does it lead and what does it gain the west?

It's not going to change the war in Ukraine that would require much different acts from the west.
It does increase the chance of kinetic war with Russia something that rhetoric aside is self evidently not a goal
If we wanted war with Russia we would infact have that war right now. Russia has also proven this line with perceived NATO aggression against Russia has been firmly drawn on there part.
do we expect Russia to simply quietly accept the west and it's alies taking any excuse they can to attack Russia quietly and with out response? Do you have a very very good idea what that will be and what it won't be?
If you don't do you think it's a good idea to go all yolo with a nuclear armed stare that is already in a war a war it by the way sees as defending itself against the very organizations you intend to attack it with? One by the way we have proven we don't want to go-to war with, well the other side may not want to escalate itself and has proven that it has also proven it will fight rather surender without one.

And what is the gain here? We enter a world were air defence systems are set to fire first ask questions later. How is that a improvment over no harm no foul?

And lastly what about ligimet accents emergencys they do happen what does pushing this envelope do there raidar can't tell intent and frankly mistakes can start wars. There is a very good reason why this should be has been and I'm sure will be ignored. The only difference between this and the norm is some people in politics and media wanted to look tough and said some things they know are actually stupid. This by the way is also normal and periodically effective is making all kinds of bad situationions worse
 

crest

Member
NATO statement released today:



NATO - Official text: Statement by the North Atlantic Council on recent airspace violations by Russia, 23-Sep.-2025

As expected NATO is not doing anything that can have even the slightest risk of escalating the situation. However, the ball is now back in Russia's court. I believe Russia will keep escalating, I think the question is: will they keep escalating at the same rate or will they wait a few weeks or even months before escalating again?
I just want to point out we are financing and supling the war in Ukraine Russia is not directly attack us or even the supply lines. Economic escalations n against Russia is now down to punishing other states.
Yeah we should probably hold off on the final real escalation we have left. That is direct kinetic activity.
If Russia wants to take more or less peaceful actions to remind us that it's unhappy about this there are limits and pushing to far will have consequences. Well thats to be expected.

And NATO is probably right in its assessment that escalation on our part is alot more risky then Russian escalation notably because we're much farther the road of things we can do that aren't going to result in a war. We can't even really respond in kind because of the whole were sending so many arial threats into Russia via Ukraine they might just shoot it down accidently.
 
Top