Russia - General Discussion.

[Feanor]

Once there is a violent uprising of military scale, there is no question anymore to let potentially hostile parties agitating freely. And sometimes non-hostile parties can be victim.
It's not good. But that's how it happens.

Complete nonsense. Shariy was one of Zelensky's competitors for the presidency, then after Zelensky came to power he banned his party. It was a move against a political competitor using the power of the government apparatus once Zelensky was in power. Check the dates of the relevant events before arguing about their meaning. So after the '14 uprising Shariy and his movement wasn't banned. But Zelensky comes to power and he is. And let's be clear, if you ban any political party that the government deems to be "potentially hostile" you don't really have a democracy. What you're left with then is what Putin called a "sovereign democracy" and what I call an authoritarian oligarchy given the larger context here present.

EDIT: To clarify, what I mean is that if you ban "any", as in any party the government feels like banning because they're declared "potentially hostile". I don't mean banning a single party immediately destroys democracy. And we're not talking about one party in the case of Ukraine. We're talking about a thorough sanitizing of the political space.

 

[Karl Franz]

Interesting sidenote, General Mordvichev has just been made Russia's commander of Land Forces. He's Russia's most successful general of the current war, and this is his second promotion since the start of the war, he was commander of the 8th CAA South MD, then became commander of the Central MD. I don't think, on practical level, that he will leave the front lines. Instead I suspect he will be coordinating the war effort but from a higher level position.

I remember reading not too long ago that he was transferred (just him or with the units he commands not sure) to the Lyman (South Kupyansk) front. Although the Russians were already moving forward here, there was a noticeable uptick in advancement rate after that. Its a good trend for Russians to promote based on merit which was not always the case.

 

[Karl Franz]

No: It cost the US economy (The government + the rest of the economy).

So you do not understand the difference.

Telling me that I have no understanding of basic economics while you asked such questions is ... how to say... pathetic.
(But ok, I will ignore it for this time)

My questions were asked challenging your previous statements. My hope was that while researching the questions you would figure out where you went wrong, however you were unable or unwilling to do this.

Generally speaking your blind bias is preventing you from assessing the information objectively and actually understanding what is happening in both Russia's economics and its war in Ukraine.

 

[Fredled]

Complete nonsense. Shariy was one of Zelensky's competitors for the presidency, then after Zelensky came to power he banned his party. It was a move against a political competitor using the power of the government apparatus once Zelensky was in power. Check the dates of the relevant events before arguing about their meaning. So after the '14 uprising Shariy and his movement wasn't banned. But Zelensky comes to power and he is. And let's be clear, if you ban any political party that the government deems to be "potentially hostile" you don't really have a democracy. What you're left with then is what Putin called a "sovereign democracy" and what I call an authoritarian oligarchy given the larger context here present.

EDIT: To clarify, what I mean is that if you ban "any", as in any party the government feels like banning because they're declared "potentially hostile". I don't mean banning a single party immediately destroys democracy. And we're not talking about one party in the case of Ukraine. We're talking about a thorough sanitizing of the political space.

It's possible that Zelensky banned a political competitor. That's why I said that some non-hostile parties or politicians can also be victim. It's hard to have a perfect democracy in troubled times. I also heard that Zelensky didn;t have a good reputation before the war... Hehehe...

Edit: Isn't Zelensky doing the same with Poroshenko, right now?

 

[Fredled]

My questions were asked challenging your previous statements.

Ho, I see... Well... I don't play that game. You met the wrong person.

 

[seaspear]

I'm not sure the definition of democracy can include whether parties are banned even in Australia the nazi salute is banned let alone the party itself racist parties etc.

 

[Ananda]

I think everybody learned from 2008 that falsifying data (purposely or not) can be much more dangerous to the economy than whatever problems they are facing.

Yes, that's the point. WB and IMF still see Russian statistics that open to them are reliable enough. They also acknowledge that Russia do withhold some of economics data. Holding data and falsifilying data are two different things. Somehow some 'think tank' believe it is the same.

 

[Fredled]

Yes, that's the point. WB and IMF still see Russian statistics that open to them are reliable enough.

Data issued by a central banks are supposed to be reliable. It's not up to the WB or the IMF to decide whether they are reliable or not. They are required to publish the numbers provided.
After that, it's the responsibility of Russia to provide accurate numbers and if they don't, it's their problem.

At the present time, the numbers they are publshing have virtualy no influence on anyone. Nobody reads them (except for fun on political internet forums).
Those who invest in Russia today, don't care about these numbers. They work on a person to person basis, with guarantees from government insiders.

 

[Fredled]

Shariy was one of Zelensky's competitors for the presidency

Complete nonsense. (<=== Sorry, you used that first )
I didn't know about Sharyi. So I made a search and found a very good article about him - almsot a biography -.
This guy is a phenomenon. It's true that persecution against him is controvertial and possibly illegal despite his controversial and pro-Russian opinions.
But he was nowhere near becoming a serious opponent to Zelensky:

According to the election results, the “Shariy party” received 2,23% of votes and did not pass the 5% barrier to enter the parliament.

Anyway, thanks for talking about him. It was worth reading.

 

[Ananda]

It's not up to the WB or the IMF to decide whether they are reliable or not. They are required to publish the numbers provided.

This is nonsense, clearly shown your complete lack of understanding what WB and IMF are. The Central Banks give them data's, but WB and IMF has final says on what meet their standard data requirements. Talking they are only required publishing data on any individual central bank members whim, clearly shown lack basic understanding how WB and IMF and real financial market work.

the numbers they are publshing have virtualy no influence on anyone. Nobody reads them (except for fun on political internet forums).
Those who invest in Russia today, don't care about these numbers.

Another nonsense delusional fantasy. You clearly not in financial market, but also not understand Traders and Investors real world working. This is not the 90's anymore. Having no or minimum trade with Western World and Allies, doesn't mean a dead penalty to the Economy anymore.

You have disdain and frustration toward Russia is your rights. Still most Global South still trade with Russia and they are still reading and put interest on Russian data. Those Players are exist and simply because they are not Western Players, does not mean they are nobody as you implied too. Guess you are the one that live on fantasy world.

 

[seaspear]

There are of course articles casting doubt on the accuracy of economic data released by Russia

Russia's Economic Data: A Troubled Picture Behind the Numbers

Russia's Economic Data: A Troubled Picture Behind the Numbers

www.ainvest.com

 

[Ananda]

In essence, the World Bank and IMF use a combination of data provided by member countries and their own analysis to form a comprehensive understanding of global economic conditions and make decisions about their lending and policy advice. While they generally rely on the data provided by Russia, they also exercise their own judgment and may make adjustments or estimates when necessary.

This is Google AI conclusion on how's World Bank and IMF practices when publishing data. Put AI conclusion as it is short way to gather all sources. In essence it is the same as what I have put before. WB and IMF have their own sources and team that analyse the data, and decided if the data meet their standard of reliabilitas before publishing them. So accusation that WB and IMF simply publishing data from each central Banks members as it is, clearly missleading and delusional.

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/the-world-bank-and-the-imf-spread-biased-economic-data-about-russia/

This is example of Euro source that supports WB and IMF integrities on data they are published. This is to answer from Pro Russian sources that call both organisation bias because their HQ located in US.

Bit irony now, as some in Western sources call question on Russian data including those publish by WB and IMF. Shown when Both organisation shown data that harming Russia economics picture, pro Russian will call them bias, however when their data shown Russian economies doing still fine, anti Russian in Western think tanks will do otherwise.

For that those who works in real financial market, will still relies on WB and IMF publications. Because in time of geoplitic crisis, they are that more or less still neutral thus less bias sources.

 

[Fredled]

Google AI ==> LOL. In practice these institutions are always publishing official data. It's extremely rare that they decide not to do so. And they can't modify the numbers when they think that they are fake. However they can write a side note about it.

As I said, those who still trade or invest in Russia (Global South, Arabs, China... ) don't pay attention any more about the WB, the IMF or the official data from the Russian government. They work on the basis of personal and political relationship.

You really work in financial markets???

 

[ngatimozart]

Google AI ==> LOL. In practice these institutions are always publishing official data. It's extremely rare that they decide not to do so. And they can't modify the numbers when they think that they are fake. However they can write a side note about it.

As I said, those who still trade or invest in Russia (Global South, Arabs, China... ) don't pay attention any more about the WB, the IMF or the official data from the Russian government. They work on the basis of personal and political relationship.

You really work in financial markets???

@Fredled permanently banned for trolling.
Ngatimozart

 

[Ananda]

It is not my intention to repply on post of subject from someone that already banned by Mods team from this forum. However I incline to answer accusation this person made toward two global financial bodies and how market proffesionals conducting their business:

1. IMF and World Bank data integrity.

It is true that IMF and WB gather global financials data from each central banks or financial regulators on their membership. However IMF and WB also have representative on each member nation, which one of their job is to asses financial data send to both agencies.

They also then give their assesment to HQ team that then decide if the data from each members submitted to them, have discrepencies or not meet their reliabilities standard. Cause any data that being publish by them are basically become data that already passed their assesment. Their HQ team also see other nations data that trade with each other to make assesment on real financial and goods transactions.

Both agencies maintain their rights to not publish any data they considered have too big discrepencies thus questionable reliabilities. Yes they can publish some data with footnote on them. However it is mostly (in case of Russia) some acknowledgement of missing data. Again it is differemt on integrity of data they are publishing. It will be their own credibilities in line if they are knowingly and intentionaly let publishing false data.

So it is give false accusation on saying Both International financial bodies only just passing data, without checking. It is not their obligations to just publish and passing data that come to them. They are not post office or Fed-Ex that just passing documents. People that saying that has clear intention to smeared both agencies, because somehow their data not meet their agenda.

Both sides in this war somehow already accuse data integrities from both agencies on Russia sometime during this periods. For us in financial market, WB and IMF so far shown neutrality on data publishing for all members countries. Personally I have some disagreement on their assesment from time to time. However their data reporting integrity still much hold, relative to others think tanks assesments. Especially in this time of geopolitical biases that fill media news and online assesments from all sides.

 

[Ananda]

2. Market proffesionals only work through personal and political relationship.

This is very absurb accusation, we are working to make money for our clients and our FI/Banks. Thus we still need to know fundamentals conditions of each market.

Investors seeking financial statistics on Russia typically require information on macroeconomic indicators, company financials, and market conditions to assess investment opportunities and risks. Key areas of interest include GDP growth, inflation, trade balance, foreign direct investment, exchange rates, interest rates, and stock market performance.

Yes it is AI Google generate, but means the AI make summary from all data and articles in Google libraries. Those who redicule AI, seems some one that don't know how AI work or which AI that more or less have credibilities sources. AI still has problems, but throughout years recently shown credibilities for assesment as long as we know how to put right questions (this is one main example).

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/rush-russian-assets-belies-permafrost-some-investors-fear-2025-03-24/

Yes many market professionals like to put bets, especially if they aim for quick turn around investment or trade deals. However they still watch and read fundamentals data. We are aim to make money, thus basic fundamentals still need to be asses. Fundamentals data needed for us to make decissions whether this is quick turn around trade or more long term investment holds.

So financial statistics still need to be gain, as we are not some blind idiots that put millions of dollars on some 'make believe' trade and investment deals. Making quick turn around bet, even that still need to understand the fundamental situations. Politics matter, but in the end bottom line still the aim for markets proffesionals.

 

[seaspear]

I can appreciate that international bodies often have to estimate data accuracy from countries which may have some reluctance with accurate information being shared for political reasons

Censored Statistics, Deleted Data Muddy the Waters

As China continues to tighten information flows in and out of the country, how reliable are statistics from official Chinese sources? Recent media pieces have highlighted the deepening lack of government transparency and accuracy when it comes to important data, and its implications for research...

chinadigitaltimes.net

China blocks data from being published

There is growing worry about what will happen to the global economy as China restricts information sharing with the world.

www.semafor.com

The article cited for the Russian Ruble being so successful this year did not provide reasons for this as per this article

Russian ruble value surges to become world's best performing currency YTD

The Russian ruble strengthened to RUB82.3 to the dollar on April 16, making it the best performing currency in the world YTD, outperforming even ...

www.intellinews.com