Russia - General Discussion.

[Ananda]

You seem to forget how it all started.

No, I'm very aware that Russia help organise and arm Donbas resistance. However does not hide the fact that big part of Russian ethnic in East Ukraine decide to rebel. People don't take arm just because everything ok. Russian ethnic do feel threaten by rising Bandera ethnic nationalism especialy in West Ukraine. They know what Bandera represent off, and they know they are the target.

Russia medling in this, off course not deniable. However Ukraine Elite in power getting hostile to Russian ethnics (thus basically big part of Eastern Ukraine) is also can not be deniable Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?. Especialy after Yanukovych being push away. Come on, do you still believe that Maydan is innocent Ukranian movement only ? Even many in West now increasingly see effidence Maydan is Western back take over. Yanukovych is legally elected President.

It's part of political game. West support Maydan (especialy from Western Ukranian), then Russia support uprising by the Eastren Ukranian Russian Etnics. No body are innocents in this conflict.

 

[Fredled]

You are trying to choose fact but ignore other facts. Including Euroland parading Stepan Bandera's supporters in VE day.

Putin has killed 20x more Russians and Ukrainians than Bandera.

I told you that trying to talk about Bandera is not going to work. It's old Russian propaganda. All these stories about threatened "Ethnic Russian" is complete invention. No such a thing as "Ethnic Russian" in Ukraine. These people are not divided along ethnicities. It's like talking of "Ethnic Republican" and "Ethnic Democrat" in the US. Completely ridiculous.

Putin is responsible for the death of over 200 000 people, and you tell me about "Bandera" or "Maidan take over"... Come on please. It's not that type of topic any more.

Yes, they closed pro-Russian parties. Good riddance. These traitors have nothing to do in Ukraine. Russians should take the same step and get rid of pro-Putin parties. Also traitors to their nation and thieves.

Euroland parading Stepan Bandera's supporters in VE day.

Fake.

 

[Karl Franz]

No. The interest rates is not impacting the exchange rate directly. It's impacting indirectly because the markets react to it. More importantly, the interest rates are not changed with the purpose of altering the exchange rate, but to lower or rise the cost of borrowing, to either counter inflation or to boost the economy.

Tell me why is the cost of borrowing rising or falling when you adjust interest rates?
What do you mean by markets reacting?

Central banks can be selling or buying on the market to influence the exchange rate but that remains on the open market. The open market doesn't exclude central banks, but the central banks in western countries don't do that on a regular basis, but on an exceptional basis.
This is important because while they may do it, the market is still free. People and entities are still free to buy and sell as much as they want. This is the main difference with, say, the Rubble. But also with many other currencies for which the ability to sell them is tightly controlled by the state (you can always buy them thought).

What is a free market and who owns a central bank?

No. I wanted to say that an exchange rate at a counter for tourists is not a basis to convert the value of huge assets held by Russian entities. It's a completely different story. These state assets are off markets and the real value the day there is a public offering is completely unknown.

What does exchange rate have to do with determining the value of an asset any asset?

It depends how it's used. The way Russia uses it is in total loss for its economy. Russian defence exports are in free fall. Industries in Russia are suffering from the obligation to supply the military instead of producing for commercial and profitable purpose (the price is fixed by the government). Most of the high tech is provided by China with little to no technological transfer (Chinese are not stupid). And finally, the Russian economy is suffering from sanctions because of the very use of the products.

Apart from using the defense industry to produce defense products which is what Russia is doing (and everybody else) how would you use it?
Industries historically do fall apart when there is a great demand for their product.

Yes. Absolutely. The US is no exception to that rule.
However, for a debt to exist, there should be a claim. Did Iraq and Serbia filed such a claim?
Honestly, I didn't check. But if they did, then the claimed debt should indeed be added to the existing debt if it hasn't been added yet. If they didn't, it means that there was another arrangement and that they deemed that the US didn't owe them anything.

Ukraine has already made clear that they will seek compensation and they estimate the loss caused by the Russians at over one trillion dollars. Even if nobody expects Russia to pay them, this is likely to remain a solid debt toward Ukraine. This debt toward Ukraine may not be recognised by rating agencies. This would be a huge advantage for Russia. But for any deal with Ukraine, it will have consequences. Agencies could recognise the debt if a tribunal decides that the debt is valid. Then it will be quiet bad for Russia.

What rule, Whose rule, where is this rule written, where are clams made and who enforces them?

Yes: It's my opinion that a state which doesn't support Ukraine, in the sens that they don't consider Russia as an aggressor or don't want to act accordingly is a morally failed state.
Morally failed state are often also socially and economically failed state as well.

Which major country is not morally a failed state? Lets make it easier what permanent member of the UN security council is not a morally failed state?

I didn't say that. Please check my post.

You said and I quote:
The most idiot idea is to think that they had a minute of silence for those who fell fighting the Nazi.

 

[seaspear]

Yes, but WB still publish it. Means what ever data that are published, then it is already have enough degree of confidence by WB standard. They have difficulty to asses on their ussual standard. However what ever they are publishing and asses already in their acceptable level. For that some of aspects of Russian economy forecast not being asses by WB.

In short, Russia does not shown all their data, but some data still meet acceptability level of World Bank. That's huge different then Russia put false data as some Western think tank accuse.

The caveat on reporting Russian statistics should always include some acknowledgement about its accuracy due to Russian censorship treating this as a state secret .Why Russia thinks that and and does not want this released and what measures it may take to mask such information could mean such information developed from unreliable data could well be flawed

 

[Fredled]

You said and I quote:
The most idiot idea is to think that they had a minute of silence for those who fell fighting the Nazi.

Yes. This is the correct sentence.
Thanks for correcting.

 

[Ananda]

they closed pro-Russian parties. Good riddance. These traitors have nothing to do in Ukraine. Russians should take the same step and get rid of pro-Putin parties. Also traitors to their nation and thieves.

Seems you are clearly goes emotional ranting and showning yourself on your real despise to Ethnic Russian.

Fake.

Parading Ukranian Army in which big part of them glorified Stepan Bandera is not a fake, and clearly shown delusional believe.

Russian ethnics has the right to exist in Eastern Ukraine, the rights for their political power as any citizen. Ukraine should give the rights for their own Russian citizen, and not calling them traitors. At beginning they were not say wanted to merge with Russia, as they are demanding their rights for autonomy as they are concern with what rising in western part. Rising Stepan Bandera glorification in western and central Ukraine are aiming to them. It is hypocrite believes that talk of Russian ethnics political rights as traitorus intention.

The fact that many Euro media and politician shown concern on the rising Bandera's ultranasionalist ideology before the invasion, and now white washing the situation. No one is innocence in this, as both parts of Ukraine have shares on the situation that lead to civil war then Russian invasion.

This is why much of the rest of Global South stay out and sit in fences. Accuse them as morally disgusting because they don't support Euroland position is clearly shown Western suppremacist believes on their own thinking. Much of Global South see this messed are cause by both sides in Ukraine and both West and Russia played Ukraine like chess board. For that we keep engaging both sides, and not fall in to hypocrite trap on saying this messed caused by one side only.

 

[Ananda]

caveat on reporting Russian statistics should always include some acknowledgement about its accuracy due to Russian censorship treating this as a state secret.

IMF and WB acknowledge that Russia not publishing all data. However again, what the Russian statistics that they both are published means already checked and consider reliable enough. What they are saying is they can't give overall assessment on Russian economies as some data stay hidden during this war.

They never say the data that is publish is falsified and unreliable as some in Western Think Tank accuse. That's big difference.

 

[seaspear]

mixed review of Russian economic figures

Economists are questioning Russia's economic data, seeing a more troubled picture

Russia's latest economic data showed it had a strong 2024 and decade-high budget revenues in December. But economists say they aren't convinced.

www.businessinsider.com

https://www.government.se/press-releases/2025/04/minister-for-finance-in-talks-about-latest-report-on-russias-economy/

This article goes into details of the I.M.F cancelled visit to Russia

IMF postpones Russia visit after heavy criticism across Europe

Trip to Moscow to review economy delayed indefinitely after protests it would ‘normalise relations with aggressor’

www.theguardian.com

 

[PachkaSigaret]

The Estonian Navy tried to detain a Russian shadow tanker in the Gulf of Finland. The tanker was apparently flying under the flag of Gabon. They initially ignored the request to stop and a Russian Su-35 was flown in to support. Apparently the ship is currently at anchored in Russian waters not too far from the incident.

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1922722767272837573

 

[Fredled]

Apart from using the defense industry to produce defense products which is what Russia is doing (and everybody else) how would you use it?

First I will not use it to attack another country (except of course in self defence). Some experts estimated the cost of the invasion and the occupation of Iraq for the US economy at one trillion.

What rule, Whose rule, where is this rule written, where are clams made and who enforces them?

The rule of the market and of the rating agencies. Rating agencies are compiling data on each country liabilities and make an estimation of the safety of their debt emission. It has a direct impact on the cost of borrowing of the countries (the interest on the bonds). However it's often biased in favour of western economies. France, Belgium and the US should have a rating much lower than what they have now.

The market can also decide that a country is not reliable and ask a much higher interest to buy their bounds. This is what happened with Italy during the Greek sovereign debt crisis in 2012.

Which major country is not morally a failed state? Lets make it easier what permanent member of the UN security council is not a morally failed state?

Good question. Many countries have been a morally failed state at some point in history either because they collaborated with a criminal state (France 1941), refuse to condemn a criminal state, or committed war crimes themselves. So it's important, to answer this question, to set a time span: Since when do you consider that an immoral decision is still relevant today to judge on the actualy morality of a country or government?

IMO, when a government has changed, previous acts shouldn't count. However it's not that simple with democratic countries where governments change regularly but the society and the political class is still the same. In some cases, the culpability remains. For example: Does the culpability of the US for the invasion of Iraq remains until today? Very difficult question, IMHO (in my humble opinion). Is China still accountable for the crime committed by Mao Tse Tung? Obviousely not. But them keeping worshiping Mao raises some questions. Is France still accountable for the collaboration with the Nazi? No because immediately after the Liberation, France has considered the Vichy government as traitors and the Marechal Pétain became the symbol of shame, contrary to Stalin and Mao today in Russia and China.

Back to the topic: My opinion is that today the crimes committed by Russia are so obvious, so clear and proven, and continuing daily, that refusing to condemn them is a moral failure.
Pretending that both sides share the blame equaly is hypocritical, and in some case amount to collaboration when it prevents sanctions against the agressor or hinder the aid to the victim. Hungary for example.

Tell me why is the cost of borrowing rising or falling when you adjust interest rates?
What do you mean by markets reacting?
...
What is a free market and who owns a central bank?
...
What does exchange rate have to do with determining the value of an asset any asset?

I recommend Wikipedia, Investopedia or other finance and economy websites to answer these questions. They will explain better than me.

_______________________

Parading Ukranian Army in which big part of them glorified Stepan Bandera is not a fake, and clearly shown delusional believe.

Yes, it's fake. Nobody cares about Bandera. Nobody cares about Napoleon or Mussolini neither. At the moment, Vladimir Putin is the war criminal #1 on the planet and he is killing poeple every day that passes by.
Your copy-paste of Kremlin propaganda doesn't impress any one any more.

Why did I say that there is no "ethnic Russian" in Ukraine?
First because "Russian" is not an ethnicity.

Second, because there is no specifici traits which could apply to differentiate "Russian" from "non-Russian" within the Ukrainian population ("Ukrainian" also is not an ethnicity). It's not even posible to sort them by the language they speak because it's heavily mixed. These stories about discrimination against "ethnic Russians" or "laws forbidding the use of the Russian language" are complete inventions. A foreigner who doesn't speak English and goes to Ukraine can try to speak Russian to be understood by the locals. It's not forbidden. This story about "Glorifying Bandera" is also completely fake. Ukrainians couldn't care less about Bandera. Same with "Nazi" in the Ukrainian government. Or that "NATO is a treath to Russia". Or that "they had no choice but to invade". Total BS. Russia is 100% responsible for the war. The propagandists in the Kremlin know it. And they try every tricks and fake informations to show that Ukrainians and NATO are responsible.

Third, those "Ethnic Russian" so called by the Kremlin propaganda standard, are against the invasion of Ukraine, support the government of Zelensky, hate Vladimir Putin and are ashame of the crimes commited by Russian soldiers in their country. They don't understand this violence against them.

Are traitors those who helped the ennemy invade Ukraine. There has never been a civil war. The military uprising have been organised from Russia from the very first day, of course, with the help of Ukrainian traitors, within the Ukrainian army and the local Ukrainian administration. Without Russian interference, the protests, if any, would have been peaceful and a political would have been found in a civilised manner.

 

[swerve]

No, I'm very aware that Russia help organise and arm Donbas resistance. However does not hide the fact that big part of Russian ethnic in East Ukraine decide to rebel. People don't take arm just because everything ok. Russian ethnic do feel threaten by rising Bandera ethnic nationalism especialy in West Ukraine. They know what Bandera represent off, and they know they are the target.

Russia medling in this, off course not deniable. However Ukraine Elite in power getting hostile to Russian ethnics (thus basically big part of Eastern Ukraine) is also can not be deniable Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?. Especialy after Yanukovych being push away. Come on, do you still believe that Maydan is innocent Ukranian movement only ? Even many in West now increasingly see effidence Maydan is Western back take over. Yanukovych is legally elected President.

It's part of political game. West support Maydan (especialy from Western Ukranian), then Russia support uprising by the Eastren Ukranian Russian Etnics. No body are innocents in this conflict.

You seem rather attached to Russian propaganda. Have you ever thought about what Bandera did, & his expressed ideology? He was in favour of fascism, & was rabidly anti-semitic - & in Ukraine's last presidential election a Russian-speaking, anti-fascist, Jewish, candidate won, defeating a Ukrainian-speaking, right-wing Ukrainian nationalist, & Orthodox Christian, who campaigned with the slogan "army, language, faith" by 3 to 1, 75% of the vote to 25%. Zelensky's paternal grandfather, Semyon, was a Red Army colonel in WW2. Semyon's father & three brothers were killed by the Nazis. And yet, Zelensky's supposedly a Nazi according to Putin. He won a crushing victory, against an incumbent who could probably have rigged the election, but chose not to. Zelensky didn't have the organisation to do it, & his victory has to be accepted as real

Note that I'm not saying Zelensky's squeaky clean. He works in a country which has long been deeply corrupt, & it's very hard to do that without making compromises, but he isn't in the same class as the likes of Yanukovych.

Note that while Yanukovych probably won the 2010 presidential election legitimately, he then went rather undemocratic, e.g. locking up his chief opponent.

 

[Ananda]

seem rather attached to Russian propaganda. Have you ever thought about what Bandera did, & his expressed ideology?

I watch both sides propaganda, and yes both sides are full of propagandist as Ukraine being played from begining. Perhaps because I come from outside, and I don't have emotional attachment of what happened there. So lets see why most Global South see since Maydan:

1. Yanukovych perhaps corrupts but whose in that part of world that not corrupt. That's include Putin and Zelensky. However he is rightfull democratic elected President.
2. There's enough evidence how Nuland and genk directed Maydan movement to topple Yanulovych. That's evidence mostly not coming from Russia, but from US even Euro Right Wing. Sorry both Right wing and Left wing have their shares of lies. However the evidence quite strong how Western administration colluded in Maydan direction.
3. Ukraine ultra nationalist movement is aiming to Russian Ethnics that mostly support Yanukovych. They are glorified Bandera's facist ideology, and Bandera's responsible to teens of thousands Polish and Russian ethnics when he's in power. Thus very understandable for Russian ethnics to run to Moscow cover. That's not only from Russian possition but also some Western sources, even Western mainstream media before the war. Suddenly after 22, all died down in Mainstream Western media and Zelensky white washing happen. Zelensky is Jewish, but not an excuse as he let Bandera's rising in his regime.
4. Russia arm and support Donbas uprising is the fact and not deniable. However it is also very clear that Russian Ethnics especialy in Donbas are behind that also.
5. Minsk Accord I and II supposedly gave Donbas their autonomy but still stay under Ukraine. Both sides have 'credits' in my opinion to scuttle the accords.

So I like many in Global South read both sides, and like most of Global South government choose to stay out and sit in fences because mostly see there are no side that innocense in this war. That's why they condemn Russian Invasion in UN but also mostly stay abstain on Western sponsors voting for Sanctioning trade with Russia and choose to keep engaging both side.

These stories about discrimination against "ethnic Russians" or "laws forbidding the use of the Russian language" are complete inventions.

You want to believe that Ukro-EU propaganda, then so be it. Banning their political parties is clear as effort on the other directions. The fact there are Russian Ethnics as Ukranian Ethnics. Both are Slavs people but are different enough. That's the fact.

You seems trying to white washing rising and glorification of Bandera's ideology. An Ultranationalist facist ideology that killed tens of thousands Polish and Russians in WW2. You want to believe Ethnic Russian rights to defend them selves to have their political rights as traitors, is your own right. However many will not agree with you, not only in Global South, but also increasingly in West.

So you don't have superiority of morall rights call those who don't support Ukraine and still engage with Russia as failed states. This is where all our debate first coming. You want to believe every ranting that you make, it is up to you. However you don't have moral superiority to tell others that don't fell the same, and choose to engage both sides.

 

[Redshift]

Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?.

Because Pro Russia is NOT the the same as Pro Russian speakers.

Being Pro Russia means trying to move Ukraine into the orbit of Russia and returning them to serf status as a client state in the same way as Belarus is.

Can you imagine Pro EU parties lasting long in Russia? Or Belarus?.

Or maybe if a number of English speaking people living in Indonesia wanted to form Pro AUSTRALIA OR Pro UK Or Pro USA parties? Would you welcome those in your country?

Ethnicity is a strange measure, especially if the primary characteristic is just a shared language.

 

[Feanor]

Because Pro Russia is NOT the the same as Pro Russian speakers.

Being Pro Russia means trying to move Ukraine into the orbit of Russia and returning them to serf status as a client state in the same way as Belarus is.

Can you imagine Pro EU parties lasting long in Russia? Or Belarus?.

I guess the question is... do you consider Russia and Belarus democracies? Because to me that's the difference. In a liberal democracy you should have freedom of speech. If you believe that Ukraine should be politically closer aligned with Russia and want to start a political party to advocate for that and run for office on that platform, you should be allowed to do it. The question of Ukraine's foreign policy alignment is a political one, and banning parties advocating a viewpoint you don't like runs directly counter to the core concept of a liberal democratic government. It's up to the voters to decide if they want to vote for that part or not. It's not up to a government apparatus to decide that they want to move closer to the EU and therefore anyone organizing to advocate otherwise should be banned from doing so.

Or maybe if a number of English speaking people living in Indonesia wanted to form Pro AUSTRALIA OR Pro UK Or Pro USA parties? Would you welcome those in your country?

You don't have to welcome them. The space for public discourse and debate ought to be wide. It's not just two options, welcome them or ban them. In fact if a country's government only has two modes of engaging with a position, either they welcome or it outright ban it, you probably don't have a liberal democracy. You probably have some sort of authoritarian arrangement where anything not welcomed by the powers that be is banned. On a personal level you're welcome to agree or disagree with any political party, welcome them or condemn them, this is irrelevant to the point being made. Ukraine is not fundamentally a liberal democracy. It's an authoritarian oligarchy that uses administrative instruments and economic resources to steer elections. Ukraine sort of looks a little bit like a democracy because it has had changes of people in power because there are multiple players, and because public opinion does play a role in the politics of the country. But what people often fail to realize is that even in authoritarian political arrangements, public opinion can play a major role. This doesn't make a country a democracy. Look at how carefully Russia managers public opinion domestically. And let's not forget after 2008, Putin stepped down and Medvedev stepped up. At that moment in time was Russia a democracy because public opinion mattered and power changed hands? No, obviously not. It was still an oligarchy.

Ethnicity is a strange measure, especially if the primary characteristic is just a shared language.

It goes well beyond a shared language. Russia and Ukraine are culturally so similar and in many areas practically intertwined that it's very hard to separate the two out. And since for centuries there hasn't been an international boundary between them, there has been cultural cross-pollination on a massive scale, including language, but also culture, cuisine, mentality, behavior, and even family relations. I think I've written about this before, but one of the things that makes this situation so messy is that Russia didn't conquer a separate nation of Ukraine. Instead Russian and Ukrainian ethnic groups developed a national identity under the same imperial umbrella, and later under the USSR, which was by its nature an internationalist project. As a result people in eastern Ukraine speak Russian, but also people in western Russia will often speak surzhik, a half-Ukrainian half-Russian language. And surzhik penetrates in various forms even to the right shore of the Dnepr, getting progressively less Russian and more Ukrainian as it goes west. Note that surzhik itself isn't really a language or even a formalized dialect, instead it's a term that refers to a mix of Russian and Ukrainian languages, but the proportion of the mix varies regionally. When I grew up in Russia I used words, my whole life, that I just thought were Russian. I didn't find out until well into adulthood that those words were Ukrainian, and there was a "proper" Russian words for it. This is one example, but there are others, and debates continue to rage about things like borsch, or Gogol', or other cultural markers.

Incidentally for the purposes of this war it also makes it much easier for Russia to occupy and administer captured areas. The mentality is very similar, there is basically no language barrier (only in western Ukraine did I ever encounter people who didn't speak Russian, but even then they could understand me and if they spoke slowly I could understand them). The administrative divisions, practices, and operational culture, are all heavily influenced by the Soviet period, making it easy to adapt. And the population isn't necessarily hostile to Russia or Russians even with this war. Some are, but some are not, and it's easy to leave. As a result Russia isn't facing the kind of problems occupying forces often face.

 

[Fredled]

If you believe that Ukraine should be politically closer aligned with Russia and want to start a political party to advocate for that and run for office on that platform, you should be allowed to do it. The question of Ukraine's foreign policy alignment is a political one, and banning parties advocating a viewpoint you don't like runs directly counter to the core concept of a liberal democratic government.

This is true when the party advocating another direction is doing so peacefully, using politics, not guns. The problem was that as soon as 2014, they used violence. Once violence started, the notion of democracy was not viable any more.

Pro-Russians argue that the Maidan protesters started the violence with the burning of pro Russian activists in a public building (The House of the Workers, or something like that). It's true that they did it. But there is a big difference between a riot turning deadly and a military uprising. The military uprising in the Donbass was several orders of magnitude more violent than the riot on the Maidan square.

 

[Karl Franz]

First I will not use it to attack another country (except of course in self defence). Some experts estimated the cost of the invasion and the occupation of Iraq for the US economy at one trillion.

It did not cost the US economy it cost the US government. You do understand the difference?

The rule of the market and of the rating agencies. Rating agencies are compiling data on each country liabilities and make an estimation of the safety of their debt emission. It has a direct impact on the cost of borrowing of the countries (the interest on the bonds). However it's often biased in favour of western economies. France, Belgium and the US should have a rating much lower than what they have now.

The market can also decide that a country is not reliable and ask a much higher interest to buy their bounds. This is what happened with Italy during the Greek sovereign debt crisis in 2012.

I recommend Wikipedia, Investopedia or other finance and economy websites to answer these questions. They will explain better than me.

It is clear that you have no understanding of basic economic principles. Reading something on Wikipedia and then trying to insert it in nonsensical arguments is proof enough. Anyone with even rudimentary knowledge on the subject would be able to answer these basic questions that I asked.

Good question. Many countries have been a morally failed state at some point in history either because they collaborated with a criminal state (France 1941), refuse to condemn a criminal state, or committed war crimes themselves. So it's important, to answer this question, to set a time span: Since when do you consider that an immoral decision is still relevant today to judge on the actualy morality of a country or government?

IMO, when a government has changed, previous acts shouldn't count. However it's not that simple with democratic countries where governments change regularly but the society and the political class is still the same. In some cases, the culpability remains. For example: Does the culpability of the US for the invasion of Iraq remains until today? Very difficult question, IMHO (in my humble opinion). Is China still accountable for the crime committed by Mao Tse Tung? Obviousely not. But them keeping worshiping Mao raises some questions. Is France still accountable for the collaboration with the Nazi? No because immediately after the Liberation, France has considered the Vichy government as traitors and the Marechal Pétain became the symbol of shame, contrary to Stalin and Mao today in Russia and China.

Back to the topic: My opinion is that today the crimes committed by Russia are so obvious, so clear and proven, and continuing daily, that refusing to condemn them is a moral failure.
Pretending that both sides share the blame equaly is hypocritical, and in some case amount to collaboration when it prevents sanctions against the agressor or hinder the aid to the victim. Hungary for example.

So war crimes have a statue of limitation when a government is changed? Lets say for the sake of argument Putin decides to play the role you assigned him, lets say he starts carpet bombing Ukraine leveling Kiev and cities in the west systematically hunting down Ukrainian officials and killing hundreds of thousands of people along the way (under the slogan one FAB for every building). At some point whoever is left among Ukrainian officials decides enough is enough with Russian army advancing in the east and air force flattening the west and they decide to surrender to the Russians. The only thing needed for us to say bygones are bygones is for after the Putin's terms Russians elect a pro democratic government that distances itself from Putin's rule and denounce some of the former high ranking members of the government accusing them of war crimes.

 

[Feanor]

This is true when the party advocating another direction is doing so peacefully, using politics, not guns. The problem was that as soon as 2014, they used violence. Once violence started, the notion of democracy was not viable any more.

Pro-Russians argue that the Maidan protesters started the violence with the burning of pro Russian activists in a public building (The House of the Workers, or something like that). It's true that they did it. But there is a big difference between a riot turning deadly and a military uprising. The military uprising in the Donbass was several orders of magnitude more violent than the riot on the Maidan square.

When did the Party of Shariy, that's currently banned in Ukraine, use violence? Ukraine's authoritarian streak goes well beyond a pro-Russian viewpoint. I think you need to do a little more reading on the kinds of restrictions the Ukrainian government has placed on speech and political activity.

 

[Karl Franz]

MF and WB acknowledge that Russia not publishing all data. However again, what the Russian statistics that they both are published means already checked and consider reliable enough. What they are saying is they can't give overall assessment on Russian economies as some data stay hidden during this war.

They never say the data that is publish is falsified and unreliable as some in Western Think Tank accuse. That's big difference.

mixed review of Russian economic figures

Economists are questioning Russia's economic data, seeing a more troubled picture

Russia's latest economic data showed it had a strong 2024 and decade-high budget revenues in December. But economists say they aren't convinced.

www.businessinsider.com

https://www.government.se/press-releases/2025/04/minister-for-finance-in-talks-about-latest-report-on-russias-economy/ This article goes into details of the I.M.F cancelled visit to Russia

IMF postpones Russia visit after heavy criticism across Europe

Trip to Moscow to review economy delayed indefinitely after protests it would ‘normalise relations with aggressor’

www.theguardian.com

Withholding certain economical data in times of war of this scale is expected. Much can be learned from this type of data not only about Russia's economy in general but its defense industry (rates of production, pace of its expansion and so on) and as such future Russia's combat potential not only for this war but in general. Another thing to keep in mind keeping foreign trade data secret helps Russia's trading partners avoid western pressure (threats) and makes them more willing to conduct trade.

I think everybody learned from 2008 that falsifying data (purposely or not) can be much more dangerous to the economy than whatever problems they are facing.

 

[Feanor]

Interesting sidenote, General Mordvichev has just been made Russia's commander of Land Forces. He's Russia's most successful general of the current war, and this is his second promotion since the start of the war, he was commander of the 8th CAA South MD, then became commander of the Central MD. I don't think, on practical level, that he will leave the front lines. Instead I suspect he will be coordinating the war effort but from a higher level position.

Белорусский силовик

Новый главком сухопутными войсками ВС РФ. Товарищ Мордвичев. @belarusian_silovik

t.me

 

[Fredled]

When did the Party of Shariy, that's currently banned in Ukraine, use violence?

Once there is a violent uprising of military scale, there is no question anymore to let potentially hostile parties agitating freely. And sometimes non-hostile parties can be victim.
It's not good. But that's how it happens.
___________________

It did not cost the US economy it cost the US government. You do understand the difference?

No: It cost the US economy (The government + the rest of the economy).

The only thing needed for us to say bygones are bygones is for after the Putin's terms Russians elect a pro democratic government that distances itself from Putin's rule and denounce some of the former high ranking members of the government accusing them of war crimes.

I believe there is a way Russia will be able to redeem itself after the war, the same way Germany did after WW2.
If they want to.

And yes, it would involve denouncing the war crimes and put on trial those who are guilty. After they can restore the independence of Ukraine, pay compensations... Nothing is impossible. Most Russians living outside Russia would like it to happen like that.
Unfortunately, it's very unlikely.

It is clear that you have no understanding of basic economic principles.

Telling me that I have no understanding of basic economics while you asked such questions is ... how to say... pathetic.
(But ok, I will ignore it for this time)
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You want to believe that Ukro-EU propaganda, then so be it.

Ananda: You fail to realise the scale of the crimes committed by Putin and his regime.
I wish you visit a military grave one day.