stryker NZ
New Member
KH-12 said:
that was taken off the Canterbury and placed on one of the ANZAC frigates i think it was Te KAHA it was done to save money or something
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
- Start date
that was taken off the Canterbury and placed on one of the ANZAC frigates i think it was Te KAHA it was done to save money or something
As I recall, Te Kaha received the Wellington's CIWS, and Te Mana received the Canterbury's CIWS. Surely New Zealand could afford another CIWS for the new Canterbury, but it appears New Zealand doesn't intend to deploy it into a situation without air superiority. The same can be said with the OPVs and IPVs. At least the MRV and OPV have a 25mm Bushmaster gun, which should be able to put up enough lead to stop a low flying target and straff a beach.
From the Wikipedia:
Caliber: 25 mm NATO
Firearm action: Chain gun
Barrel Length: 85.6 in (2.175 m)
Effective Range: 1.2 miles (2 km)
Maximum Range: 4.23 miles (6,800 m)
Maximum ROF: 200 rounds per minute
Muzzle velocity: 1,100 m/s (3,610 ft/s)
Total Weight: 110 kg (243 lb)
The M242 Bushmaster is a 25 mm chain gun. It is currently used by the US Armed Forces and other NATO forces. It is used extensively on vehicles and aircraft. It is an externally powered, chain driven, single-barrel weapon which may be fired in semi-automatic or automatic modes. It is fed by a metallic link belt and has dual-feed capability. The term "chain gun" derives from the use of a roller chain that drives the bolt back and forth. It can destroy lightly armored vehicles and aerial targets (such as helicopters and slow-flying aircraft). It can also suppress enemy positions such as troops in the open, dug-in positions, and built-up areas. The standard rate of fire is 200 rounds per minute, and has a range of 2,000 meters (depending on the type of ammunition used).
The M242 weapon system has both electrical and manual fire control and can be operated electrically or manually. In doing so, the gunner can choose from three rates of fire: (1) Single Shot Semi-Automatic. The gunner can shoot as fast as he can squeeze the trigger. (2) Low Rate Fully Automatic. The weapon fires 100 rounds a minute, plus or minus 25 rounds. (3) High Rate Fully Automatic. The weapon fires 200 rounds a minute, plus or minus 25 rounds.
From the Wikipedia:
Caliber: 25 mm NATO
Firearm action: Chain gun
Barrel Length: 85.6 in (2.175 m)
Effective Range: 1.2 miles (2 km)
Maximum Range: 4.23 miles (6,800 m)
Maximum ROF: 200 rounds per minute
Muzzle velocity: 1,100 m/s (3,610 ft/s)
Total Weight: 110 kg (243 lb)
The M242 Bushmaster is a 25 mm chain gun. It is currently used by the US Armed Forces and other NATO forces. It is used extensively on vehicles and aircraft. It is an externally powered, chain driven, single-barrel weapon which may be fired in semi-automatic or automatic modes. It is fed by a metallic link belt and has dual-feed capability. The term "chain gun" derives from the use of a roller chain that drives the bolt back and forth. It can destroy lightly armored vehicles and aerial targets (such as helicopters and slow-flying aircraft). It can also suppress enemy positions such as troops in the open, dug-in positions, and built-up areas. The standard rate of fire is 200 rounds per minute, and has a range of 2,000 meters (depending on the type of ammunition used).
The M242 weapon system has both electrical and manual fire control and can be operated electrically or manually. In doing so, the gunner can choose from three rates of fire: (1) Single Shot Semi-Automatic. The gunner can shoot as fast as he can squeeze the trigger. (2) Low Rate Fully Automatic. The weapon fires 100 rounds a minute, plus or minus 25 rounds. (3) High Rate Fully Automatic. The weapon fires 200 rounds a minute, plus or minus 25 rounds.
Agree the 57mm is multi purpose in that regard.Stuart Mackey said:
It seems stupid I know but logistics does come into play. The NZDF would need one extra type of ammo for one ship. Maybe just buying an extra Phalanx?
I think with the amount of personal and hardware potentially at risk in a fully laden MRV the extra cost of CIWS could be justified, I guess it would have to go on top of the superstructure somewhere to give it a good field of fire, although I presume it would always be escorted by either Te Mana or Te Kaha if it was in hostile waters.Whiskyjack said:
What is the tracking and targeting system for the 25mm, is it optical/IR ?
Optical. One of links further back from Aker Marine has a layout of the Ops capability on the OPV and a picture of the optical director readout. Looking at that there may also be some interfacing with the surface search radar (whatever brand that is).KH-12 said:
It appears Tenix is using the same electronics of the Australian Armidale class patrol boats with all seven ships of New Zealand's Project Protector. For example these systems are the same:
Internal Navigational Systems: OSIL ECPINS4000
Communication Directional Finding: CEA WARRLOCK
Tactical Communications: ENL WASSP Data Master 3000
Whether the surface search radar is the same is unknown, but I am willing to bet my house its the same as the Armidales.
Internal Navigational Systems: OSIL ECPINS4000
Communication Directional Finding: CEA WARRLOCK
Tactical Communications: ENL WASSP Data Master 3000
Whether the surface search radar is the same is unknown, but I am willing to bet my house its the same as the Armidales.
Happy to see the commonality there. Makes the logistics and maintenance that much easier.Sea Toby said:
Hey Sea Toby, your details show you in the US, but you seem to turn up alot in the NZ threads? Are you a Kiwi based in the US or just interested (for some strange reason) in NZDF?Sea Toby said:
I have posted this before, I am retired US Coast Guard, therefore my interests in navies and coast guards, especially OPVs worldwide. My recently deceased Aunt Clara, and Australian war bride, is from the Sydney area. She was an Aussie through and through, always returning to Australia as much as she could to see her family, and one time hooked up with me and I saw her family there. In the past two months I have lost my Dad, an uncle, and her, all in their 90s. Usually bad news comes in threes and there won't be any more deaths in the family this year.
While my dad served in Europe earning his four bronz stars, my Uncle George served in the Pacific during WWII and earned a Navy Cross. He served on the Chicago, a heavy cruiser, which lost a bow at Savo Island and was sunk near the eastern tip of New Guinea, I believe the Rennell Islands? Like the Indianapolis, they had to fight off sharks. When he was in his twenties, his hair was as white as Santa's. As a child in my mind a person with white hair need not be old. But my father straightened me out.
I'm also interested in merchant ships, from container to cruise to ferries to fishing vessels, anything nautical.
But this is way off topic. So I will leave this here, and hopefully, this won't be deleted. How do you like my new Avatar?
While my dad served in Europe earning his four bronz stars, my Uncle George served in the Pacific during WWII and earned a Navy Cross. He served on the Chicago, a heavy cruiser, which lost a bow at Savo Island and was sunk near the eastern tip of New Guinea, I believe the Rennell Islands? Like the Indianapolis, they had to fight off sharks. When he was in his twenties, his hair was as white as Santa's. As a child in my mind a person with white hair need not be old. But my father straightened me out.
I'm also interested in merchant ships, from container to cruise to ferries to fishing vessels, anything nautical.
But this is way off topic. So I will leave this here, and hopefully, this won't be deleted. How do you like my new Avatar?
Last edited:
Cheers mate, like the Avatar.Sea Toby said:
Yes, both mounts can be controlled automatically in CIC.
Here is the ADI link of the sale: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cg...7.1153893523.RMcEk8Oa9dUAADIL7g8&modele=jdc_1
Here is another link for the Rafael gun mount: http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...master&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3&client=safari
One is made by ADI and the other by General Dynamics Land Systems. It appears to be the same gun with two different gun mounts built by two different companies. I haven't a clue which system is better?
A link to a picture of New Zealand's DS25 mount:
http://homepage.mac.com/donclark/.Public/DS25mount.jpg
A link to a picture of Australia's Rafael/Typhoon25 mount:
http://homepage.mac.com/donclark/.Public/Typhoon25mount.gif
Here is the ADI link of the sale: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cg...7.1153893523.RMcEk8Oa9dUAADIL7g8&modele=jdc_1
Here is another link for the Rafael gun mount: http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...master&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3&client=safari
One is made by ADI and the other by General Dynamics Land Systems. It appears to be the same gun with two different gun mounts built by two different companies. I haven't a clue which system is better?
A link to a picture of New Zealand's DS25 mount:
http://homepage.mac.com/donclark/.Public/DS25mount.jpg
A link to a picture of Australia's Rafael/Typhoon25 mount:
http://homepage.mac.com/donclark/.Public/Typhoon25mount.gif
Last edited:
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Not that this means a lot, but Australia operates the DS mount on it's Huon Class Minehunters, though with a 30mm gun. The 25mm gun was chosen for the Armidales because of the cheaper ammunition, but similar effects for the 25mm round, however I don't know why the different mount was chosen.Sea Toby said:
Surely cost or capability was the primary factor involved. Given my experience, I'd say cost, but NZ HAS to be pretty tight with the purse strings too, so who knows???
Last edited by a moderator:
Would be good to see the same mount on the IPV as well, especially the ability to fire them remotely, if you are for whatever facing an armed vessel it would save having to expose the crew to fire while manning the 12.7mm, plus the optics give you a day and night capability, maybe it can be retrofitted at a later date 
There are many who have posted that the MRV and OPV should have been given a 57mm or 76mm gunmount, and the IPV a 25mm gunmount, including me. New Zealand's geological position allows them to gun their ships with less. At least the 25mm and 12.7mm guns New Zealand will have on its Project Protector patrol vessels can straff a beach and hold illegal fishing boats dearly.
Last edited:
True 25mm is okay for NZ coastal & EEZ patrols but once you look at S.E. Asian tasking that no longer holds true. IPV's will be just great for the role they're designed for (coastal patrol & roving fleet protection when latter is moored in local waters). Would like 'mini-typhoon' mount for 12.7mm though!Sea Toby said:
OPV will be a great vessel but get it up into S.E. Asia on anti-piracy / anti-terrorist patrols & the exposed rump could be a problem - I'm not convinced emabrked smalls-arms provide adequate day/night cover.
MRV will be an excellent asset except again due to an exposed rump (ok- Stern!) the vessel will be unable to do effective anti-piracy / anti-terrorist patrols in higher-risk areas without escort (therefore what's the point of deploying MRV!?!). I'd like to at least see enough mounted gubs to provide 360 degree surface cover from small boat attack.
NZ tends to look at $$$'s rather than capability - but I do like the thinking behind the Protector fleet.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Here's some input from the sideline...Sea Toby said:
Personally I am mostly in favor of the 57mm 76mm guns in order to provide "overmatch."
But that is apparently not what the Danish Navy thinks, as they have decided that the new (2 + 1) 1700 tonne OPV's currently under construction is not going to be armed with a 76mm gun. They will be armed with 2 x 12.7mm MG's instead, as it was considered a waste of money with the tasks at hand (Greenland). It can be installed if needed as per the FLEX concept.
The OPV with 76mm can be seen here:
http://forsvaret.dk/FMT/Projekter+Søværn/Inspektionsskibe/
And without, here:
http://forsvaret.dk/NR/rdonlyres/56E15A3B-8B8A-4BCE-A36A-606FF9ADE394/0/Præsentation_IF.pdf
Aesthetically, kinda sad, as it definetely looks more like a warship with the gun.
There are many patrol boats in the US Coast Guard that don't have a 76mm or 57mm gun either. With the new long and medium enddurance cutters being built, all will be downsized to a 57mm gun from the 76mm before. Coast Guard type vessels, such as OPVs and IPVs, don't need a larger gun in today's world. All the merchant and fishery ships I have ever confronted stopped when the first shell was fired in front of their bow, even the drug runners.