Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Te Kaha is alongside at Esquimalt in British Columbia for kits sensor and weapons system upgrade which is being undertaken by Lockheed Martin Canada. Te Kaha is expected to return to full fleet service in May 2020 with Te Mana's complete in May 2021. In other news the latest Navy Today (Feb 2018) reports that all four IPVs will be back in service this year.
All IPV's being back in business is probably due to having three less operational vessels than this time last year with the realisation that sailors need sea time.

With respect to Te Kaha and Te Mana I am pretty miffed over the cost blowout of the FSU project. To go from $446m when the FSU contract first came to light in 2014 to now $638m is indeed poor contract management. In the private sector that would be a don't come Monday event.

What concerns me though is that it seems highly likely that the NZ Anzac replacement project wont see new vessels commissioned until well into the 2030's. Two frigates until then is frankly not just a capability gap but increasingly a capability vacuum as we near the 3rd and 4th decades of the 21st Century with obvious growing maritime tensions and unpredictability.

I discount as implausible any new Frigate type coming into service prior to the drumbeat of Te Kaha being decommissioned which I understand maybe 15 years away. However, my gut feeling is that the strategic necessity for a 3rd frigate and eventually 4th frigate will become as growingly obvious as the need for a 3rd and 4th OPV as we move through next decade. Any new 3rd (or 4th Frigate) wont happen until the replacements of Te Kaha and Te Mana are commissioned and not earlier.

This leads to the question of the disposal of the RAN Anzac's which will obviously begin around the delivery of the first of the nine SEA 5000 vessels over the next decade. It is a few years away, but it is worth contemplating that as they go offline in RAN service - could they be transferred, leased (or bought) and crewed by the RNZN with the WAMA sustainment contract for the vessel(s) in place yet now paid for buy the NZ Govt.

Their are some obvious advantages for both nations. The RAN will still operate the Anzac Class at least as long as our to Kiwi-ised Anzac's are in commissioned through the following decade, that the sustainment will be in place and it would beef up surface combatant numbers not just for New Zealand but also collectively on a Trans-Tasman basis from the mid 2020's thus adding to mutual strategic weight.

It would certainly be a better option than taking over old RN Type 23's or USN OHP's under strategic urgency. At least contemplating it now would give time develop a workflow that would provide RNZN crew the necessary training and familiarisation transition to what have evolved into similar yet different vessels. It would be certainly less problematic than operating two entirely different platforms, I know it would be far better to operate 3 or 4 vessels of exactly the same type, but it will be far worse to continue to operate just two if strategic events continue the way they are going. We have coped with operating Leanders alongside Anzacs for a few years as we once did in operating Lochs with Rothesay's and a Dido Class Cruiser in the early 1960's.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Any idea when Te Mana goes alongside for the Sea Ceptor upgrade? I am curious if or when the RNZN might find itself without any frigates available for deployment.
Gidday Tod, the article doesn't state when Te Mana will have the upgrade, only that it is due to return to ops in May 2021.
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
Gidday Tod, the article doesn't state when Te Mana will have the upgrade, only that it is due to return to ops in May 2021.
If you read both the message from CN & the article about Te Kaha's upgrade it is possible to determine that RNZN will be without a fully operational frigate for (at least!) a year.

Confirmed Te Kaha is there now.
'Te Kaha will be ready for tasking from May 2020'
(from the upgrade article).
'Te Mana will undertake her upgrade commencing mid-2019' (from CN's column).
'Te Mana will follow, with her completion scheduled for May 2021' (from the upgrade article).
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
If you read both the message from CN & the article about Te Kaha's upgrade it is possible to determine that RNZN will be without a fully operational frigate for (at least!) a year.

Confirmed Te Kaha is there now.
'Te Kaha will be ready for tasking from May 2020'
(from the upgrade article).
'Te Mana will undertake her upgrade commencing mid-2019' (from CN's column).
'Te Mana will follow, with her completion scheduled for May 2021' (from the upgrade article).
The 7 Protector vessels will be it. There is the replacement Dive vessel due next year but will that be ready for tasking? Though Te Kaha will be back at Devonport in the second half of next year, but as the article notes it wont be ready for operational tasking until a year later.

God forbid if they the NZ Govt are forced in desperation due to a regional maritime security emergency to deploy Te Kaha without being fully trained in operating the new systems .... I am sure the Navy would rise to the occasion after a huge effort, but it would be a marvellous opportunity to place a generation of politicians and defence officials under the blowtorch of public opprobrium for failing to adequately fund and equip the RNZN.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
She’s going to be a fantastic replacement for Endeavour, the only issue I have is the medical facilities, she’s roughly the same size and capacity as the Norwegian Maud, yet Maud has a 48 bed hospital, operating theatre, isolation ward and ct scanner, disaster relief is one out her core functions so not fit her with a more comprehensive medical facility??
Don't worry too much about the quoted numbers, it all comes down to semantics ! It all depends on what has been taken into account. As an example it is often quoted that the USN Wasp Class have a 600 bed hospital etc etc etc yadda yadda yadda !

Not the case, they have a dedicated 64 bed hospital with the ability to set up an additional 500+ beds in an overflow capacity. Overflow capacity of areas that can be set up as operating theatres etc etc.

She will be fine and give NZ very good service and have no problems handling the roles she has been given

Cheers
 

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
Royal NZ Navy on Twitter

Looks as if RNZN is taking preparations seriously for the frozen south. Twitter indicates that they have an observer on the US Polar Star icebreaker learning the art of ice navigation.
Once the Endeavour arrives, having experience crew seconded from Canada or USCG on board to share their experience would be the logical next step.
Incidentally, it's great to be back on the forum after a spell dealing with the real world.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The tender process for the LOSC has been terminated:
The Crown has terminated the tender process under RFT 1-328, in accordance with paragraph 1.8 of the Conditions of Tender. A contract has not been awarded to satisfy this tender. The Littoral Operations Support Capability project as it stands will be formally closed.
GETS.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
So thats it then, the commercial dive support ship is the permanent replacement for HMNZS Manuwanui?
Highly likely. But it should be noted that the ambition for a Littoral Warfare Vessel with greater capability than the recent or future Manawanui as per DWP16 and Project Future 35 still exists.
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
Not in the public domain yet. But certainly more than rumours lets put it that way.
Given Navy comments made in Navy Today about 'exciting developments' and 'likely to be in service by years end' etc I'm picking an agreement has been reached to purchase a commercial vessel due to be released onto the market in a few months and that it is currently seeing out it's final commercial diving contracts. I'd take a punt & say it'll be a definite step-up from Manawanui.
 

kiwipatriot69

Active Member
Highly likely. But it should be noted that the ambition for a Littoral Warfare Vessel with greater capability than the recent or future Manawanui as per DWP16 and Project Future 35 still exists.
Given recent developments mentioned of the P8 purchase mentioned here im sensing a pattern immerging, perhaps Labour intends to pull a fast one and go for a cheaper option, seing thats there past mode of operation.Using the defence budget as a cash cow to prop up its election promises, yet again. Id be curious as to what sort of military role a commercial vessel could play without serious modification, in a medium to high threat situation?
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Given recent developments mentioned of the P8 purchase mentioned here im sensing a pattern immerging, perhaps Labour intends to pull a fast one and go for a cheaper option, seing thats there past mode of operation.Using the defence budget as a cash cow to prop up its election promises, yet again
The Minister of Finance clearly said on a news interview reciently that he was not commited to the $20B Defence capital budget as there were other priorities. I also get the feeling that RM and defence do not have much support from Winston. Could be rocky days ahead like the start of the previous Labour government.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
The Minister of Finance clearly said on a news interview recently that he was not committed to the $20B Defence capital budget as there were other priorities. I also get the feeling that RM and defence do not have much support from Winston. Could be rocky days ahead like the start of the previous Labour government.
The Minister of Spending and his BA in political studies - fortunately can only ever lay his hands on $4 Billion until 2020. That further $16B over the next decade wont be his to spend because it does not exist yet.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Given recent developments mentioned of the P8 purchase mentioned here im sensing a pattern immerging, perhaps Labour intends to pull a fast one and go for a cheaper option, seing thats there past mode of operation.Using the defence budget as a cash cow to prop up its election promises, yet again. Id be curious as to what sort of military role a commercial vessel could play without serious modification, in a medium to high threat situation?
The Manawanui replacement will replace what the Manawanui currently does now and only go where it goes now. The intention from a RNZN/NZDF perspective is that eventually what they were after from the DWP will be achieved on another future vessel as part of Future 2035.

If Labour pulls a fast one in Defence - the 3rd time over the last 30 years dont expect the OZ government to roll over and take it on the chin this time. There will a large dose of real politik coming the the throats of the Students Union who run this country - the current level of trust, respect and commitment to the trans-tasman relationship is completely the opposite than what it was 12 months ago and has been for the last decade.
 
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