Royal New Zealand Air Force

[JulioCompactus]

Hawk LIFT trainer fleet is almost double the size of an expected RNZAF fleet, is deployed across multiple airbases, regularly deployed across a country the size of Australia and it too is in the middle of a substantial upgrade period…

I didn’t take my figures from estimates or even revised estimates, but actuals…

https://www.defence.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-10/AR-2020-21-tables.xlsx

sustainment budgets are almost without exception fully spent sometimes in excess. It takes a major event to lead to any significant underspend as the adverse results for the product (and the consequences for the guilty) are usually great. So it can be safely assumed that the budgeted figures accurately reflect spend except in rare cases.

According to your table the underspend in super hornet was due to a delay in a component of the spiral upgrade and the underspend is not a saving just deferred into the next FY so not any discount to the core sustainment price as those $ will be additional costs in the out years which is worse than an in year budgeted expense.

 

[John Fedup]

It would be interesting to know the actual stealth capabilities of the J-20/FC(J?)-31 jets compared to the F-22/F-35. That goes for other 5th Gen features as well but the former is important wrt 4th Gen encounters. So far, production of the F-35 along with the unique F-35B is a big plus.

 

[Rob c]

Yes I thought about that and after much thought decided against it. I have been working on this for about four years.

WRT the LIFT, that would have to be looked at down the track because it would be quicker to get trainees through other FVEY air arms LIFT courses. All together that would be five separate courses and we may be able to get the graduates some squadron time in the air arms as well. If we did two or three per course we would soon build up numbers. The problem would be with experienced Flt Cdrs and Sqn COs where we might have to either borrow some or head hunt some. When we do get the LIFT here we require sufficient QFI and we would have to look at how we solve that problem until we can breed our own. When we do go into LIFT the T-7A Red Tail would be the choice.

A lot of what you say is good, but I would initially go down a combined road of using both surplus training spaces of like nations and at the same time establishing our own program with leased aircraft and borrowed or contracted instructors and as time goes on switching to all local training as soon as possible to give consistent direction as this was the fundamental reason that we achieve the high standards that were achieved in the past. You are correct in your assessment of experienced Flt Cdrs and Sqn COs and add to that Section leaders. As to the aircraft we get to replace the leased aircraft in 5 + years, not only would they have to do the training , but due to the small numbers of combat aircraft we have, they must have a significant combat ability. While I know that you support the ten year time frame , I still support the Air Forces 15 year time frame to achieve an ACF to the standard we had in the 1990's.. I would agree that a functioning AFC could be achieved at 10 years but it would not be at the standard that we once had, This would take longer.

 

[old faithful]

Did I miss something? Is NZ parliament discussing an ACF?

 

[John Fedup]

Did I miss something? Is NZ parliament discussing an ACF?

Perhaps in a parallel universe, along with junior’s fighter replacement in our Parliament.

 

[JulioCompactus]

Perhaps in a parallel universe, along with junior’s fighter replacement in our Parliament.

I think it is time the RNZAF embraces the philosophy of Princess Elsa of Arendelle.

 

[Rob c]

Did I miss something? Is NZ parliament discussing an ACF?

You should know by now that the only thing that our pollies discuss that is aeronautical is the meals they get in business class.
When it comes to discussing anything in regard to the defence of NZ, it has to be theoretical as we don't have any real defence

 

[Redlands18]

Brazil receives last modernised Skyhawk jet

The Brazilian Navy is in the process of receiving its seventh and final modernised Skyhawk fighter jet.

www.janes.com

Maybe the Kiwis should have kept there Skyhawks, still some life left in Heinemann's Hot-rod yet.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

This is getting old and battered... NZ is never going to get its ACF back... you are flogging a dead horse over and over...

 

[Stuart M]

This is getting old and battered... NZ is never going to get its ACF back... you are flogging a dead horse over and over...

Ohh, one never knows how the future will pan out.
To borrow from UK PM Harold McMillan "events, dear boy, events"

From The Australian(pay walled)https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...t/news-story/dcbd342dd8d9c2fbeaeb2f61adaba66e


The “framework agreement” between the two governments, which was leaked online on Thursday, would enable the Solomon Islands government to “request China to send police, armed police, military personnel and other law enforcement and armed forces to Solomon Islands”.

It says Chinese forces would be able to maintain social order and protect lives in the country, and that Chinese ships could visit and “carry out logistic replenishment”.

 

[Gooey]

Ohh, one never knows how the future will pan out.
To borrow from UK PM Harold McMillan "events, dear boy, events"
...
It says Chinese forces would be able to maintain social order and protect lives in the country, and that Chinese ships could visit and “carry out logistic replenishment”.

Nice one Stu (sorry for the gratuitous 1970s Kiwi children's cultural reference, which few may understand)

I'm wondering, how:
1. NZ MINDEF will use his "people, infrastructure, Pacific" bullet points to talk his way out of this small CCP PLAN in Solomans situation (exactly as predicted in his own/parallel universe, Dec 2021 NZ Defence Assessment and not picked up by our Media to develop an overarching 'so what'); or,
2. MIA MINDEF and the rest of NZG will just ignore this; or,
3. In a moment of clarity, realisation that Ukraine demonstrates that on a bad-day things can go pear-shaped very quickly, and that following NZDF CDF executive briefings (because our Staff Officers still understand the military part of a flying club) on an Air Force with the greater deterrence and utility of NZG options for firepower, speed of reaction, and flexibility of missions, PM acknowledges an RNZAF deficiency and an emergency, crash, funding program for ACF.

Answers on a postcard please.

FYI, my best guess is 2. Sadly.

 

[Stuart M]

Nice one Stu (sorry for the gratuitous 1970s Kiwi children's cultural reference, which few may understand)

I'm wondering, how:
1. NZ MINDEF will use his "people, infrastructure, Pacific" bullet points to talk his way out of this small CCP PLAN in Solomans situation (exactly as predicted in his own/parallel universe, Dec 2021 NZ Defence Assessment and not picked up by our Media to develop an overarching 'so what'); or,
2. MIA MINDEF and the rest of NZG will just ignore this; or,
3. In a moment of clarity, realisation that Ukraine demonstrates that on a bad-day things can go pear-shaped very quickly, and that following NZDF CDF executive briefings (because our Staff Officers still understand the military part of a flying club) on an Air Force with the greater deterrence and utility of NZG options for firepower, speed of reaction, and flexibility of missions, PM acknowledges an RNZAF deficiency and an emergency, crash, funding program for ACF.

Answers on a postcard please.

FYI, my best guess is 2. Sadly.

It will be option #2 with the current government but, and I mentioned this in the NZDF thread, that when under duress a future government may about face on the received wisdom of the preceding 30 odd years as per the Lange government after 1984.
For the purposes of this thread the question is the RNZAF regaining sufficient capability to perform maritime airstrike and air interception of Chinese forces staged out of the Solomons. This document shows the Chinese want South Pacific bases for their forces should they need it, for what ever purposes, so what forces could they be? H6 bombers, presumably with some sort of fighter escort?

Importantly it shows that there is now something one can point to and say 'there is the threat', assuming it is ratified of course, but its no longer speculative if it goes ahead.

The document itself is interesting as to the possibilities.

Dr Anna Powles on Twitter: "The draft security cooperation agreement between China and Solomon Islands has been linked on social media and raises a lot of questions (and concerns). (photos of agreement in this and below tweet) 1/6 https://t.co/nnpnJJQC7r" / Twitter

 

[Teal]

Been pondering a thought regarding the P3 retirement plan, noting the kit inside/outside the airframe is pretty good condition , noting age etc , would it be a good , low cost as we own it, to move the kit , or parts like the EO , SA radar and tac rails to another airframe like Q300 , use as inshore ISR/ patrol/NATS , just like the F27 , i know various STC and approvals will be needed, Bombadair Q300 has some of these already , just a thought to save cost , PS would keep the oven, love the choc cookies

 

[ngatimozart]

Been pondering a thought regarding the P3 retirement plan, noting the kit inside/outside the airframe is pretty good condition , noting age etc , would it be a good , low cost as we own it, to move the kit , or parts like the EO , SA radar and tac rails to another airframe like Q300 , use as inshore ISR/ patrol/NATS , just like the F27 , i know various STC and approvals will be needed, Bombadair Q300 has some of these already , just a thought to save cost , PS would keep the oven, love the choc cookies

I take it that you are / were 5 Sqn? You just want to continue with in flight roast meals and all the trimmings eh.

It could be one option. I see Air NZ operate 23 of them with an average age of 14.5 years, so acquiring six Q300 would make sense. It has about a 940nm range which I think is a bit short considering the size of our EEZ, but it wouldn't be carrying a full pax and freight load - hang on we are talking 5 Sqn, an oven and their Flt rations. No, they would go to 42 sqn who don't have the same weaknesses. They could fit external fuel tanks like the did with the Friendships. Me being me would want a cannon fitted to stop the FFV from trying to do a runner. A GAU-8 might be a bit to optimistic.

 

[Teal]

I take it that you are / were 5 Sqn? You just want to continue with in flight roast meals and all the trimmings eh.

It could be one option. I see Air NZ operate 23 of them with an average age of 14.5 years, so acquiring six Q300 would make sense. It has about a 940nm range which I think is a bit short considering the size of our EEZ, but it wouldn't be carrying a full pax and freight load - hang on we are talking 5 Sqn, an oven and their Flt rations. No, they would go to 42 sqn who don't have the same weaknesses. They could fit external fuel tanks like the did with the Friendships. Me being me would want a cannon fitted to stop the FFV from trying to do a runner. A GAU-8 might be a bit to optimistic.

Sadly no, if i could start life again a would, love 5 + star hotels , Senior Service for me. Spent a few good hours in a P3 tho over the years, not to mention supporting 5sqn overseas
If you can fit that weapon system in and keep room for the galley, id say go for it !! Never have too much firepower

 

[ngatimozart]

Sadly no, if i could start life again a would, love 5 + star hotels , Senior Service for me. Spent a few good hours in a P3 tho over the years, not to mention supporting 5sqn overseas
If you can fit that weapon system in and keep room for the galley, id say go for it !! Never have too much firepower

You can't be all bad. You must be a gentleman then, as long as you weren't a stoker. I served in both services. Unfortunately I cant's see the govt authorising the fitting of the GAU-8 to a RNZAF aircraft. Although it is central to the new South Korean LIG-N1 30mm CIWS II. That looks quite good and would be far better than Phalanx.

 

[recce.k1]

Update on progress of the new Poseidon hanger and infrastructure construction at Ohakea air base.

The good news is it's on track to be completed by the end of this year, when the RNZAF's first P-8A will be delivered.

Ōhakea Air Force base to hold two large hangars, workforce of 1200

Huge cranes are towering above the flat Manawatū countryside as construction of two hangars for new Air Force aircraft cruises at altitude.

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[kiwi in exile]

Latest Line of Defence mag has an advertorial discussing the role a Sea Guardian could have played in the recent Tonga HADR operation.
Line of Defence Magazine - Autumn 2022 - Defsec pp 16-19
Would have taken longer to get there but would have been able to maintain much greater time on station than a p3/p8 at a fraction of the fuel and cost.

I would like to have seen us gain 1 more P-8A. But the value for money of the sea guardian is impressive, and would be a great way of extending the life of our 4 P-8As. A small fleet of sea guardaians would arguably be the quickest cheapest way of extending our maritime domain awareness.

 

[alexanderthegreat368]

Given the recent decision by Australia to axe the MQ-9B Australia’s MQ-9B SkyGuardian project axed , it may offer a good deal to secure a few of the maritime variant for the RNZAF. These would offer a cheaper ISR capability to complement the P3s and upcoming P8s, and also provide a semi air combat capability that has been sorely missed. Overall I think drones are our best bet for restoring such a capability, as manned fighter aircraft are only becoming more and more expensive. The cheaper (and increasingly more capable) UCAVs will help fill this slot.

 

[ngatimozart]

Given the recent decision by Australia to axe the MQ-9B Australia’s MQ-9B SkyGuardian project axed , it may offer a good deal to secure a few of the maritime variant for the RNZAF. These would offer a cheaper ISR capability to complement the P3s and upcoming P8s, and also provide a semi air combat capability that has been sorely missed. Overall I think drones are our best bet for restoring such a capability, as manned fighter aircraft are only becoming more and more expensive. The cheaper (and increasingly more capable) UCAVs will help fill this slot.

The SeaGuardian is ideal for our situation. If I had my way I'd buy eight of them which would involve four ground stations and four mobile stations (two ground and two mobile per four RPAS. They cost around US$600,000 per module of four MQ-9B SeaGuardian plus two ground and two mobile stations. Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the United States (TECRO) – MQ-9B Remotely Piloted Aircraft | Defense Security Cooperation Agency That's roughly NZ$1 billion.

UCAV replacing manned strike / fighter aircraft in air combat are a pipe dream at the moment. And price wise they aren't cheaper to own and operate. In a combat situation the present level of technology means that if a UCAV is involved in combat against any combat system, odds on are that the manned system will win because the UCAV cannot react in time. This is due to the signal time lag in decision making process which is many seconds to long. It takes seconds for an image to be processed in the UCAV sensors, transmitted to a satellite, retransmitted to the receiving / control station on earth, processed onto a VDU, then for the controller to process in their brain, make a decision, tap the decision into the computer, send transmit the signal back through the satellite, have the UCAV receive the signal, process then action that signal. By that time somebody probably has introduced it to a SAM of some sort, flak (AAA), or done some other evil deed to it.

Radio waves travel at the speed of light in a vacuum which is 300,000km/se^2. Because they're EM (electromagnetic} energy other people with evil intentions can intercept them and interfere with their passage, effectively preventing communication between the sender and receiver. The PLA (Chinese Peoples Liberation Army) are very good at this and such equipment is standard on most of their PLAN (PLA Navy) ships and Chinese Coastguard ships. The CCP /PRC have put this capability to good use in the South China Sea blocking Philippine Naval Vessels from communicating by satellite or normal radio.