Royal New Zealand Air Force

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
My Uncle now retired from the RNZAF Ex Av Tech of 20+ yrs, said when I was last back home in 2017. That all C130’s would have to be retired around 2025 as Lockheed said they would be of out design hrs & won’t support the RNZAF C130’s after 2025 or words to that a effect.
They are cutting it very fine. It wont be until mid 2025 that all five are delivered and how long will FOC be in play after that. Honestly four years the way the world is going pear shaped it is increasingly looking like a game of blackjack.

One can understand LM's reluctance to provide support to a then 60 year old tactical transport aircraft.

I could understand Ronnie wanting to review the J Models, given the shit fight with the ANZAC upgrade & cost blow out.
At least the review did force the government to not back track on the prior decisions and lock in the P-8 and C-130J-30.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
They are cutting it very fine. It wont be until mid 2025 that all five are delivered and how long will FOC be in play after that. Honestly four years the way the world is going pear shaped it is increasingly looking like a game of blackjack.

One can understand LM's reluctance to provide support to a then 60 year old tactical transport aircraft.

At least the review did force the government to not back track on the prior decisions and lock in the P-8 and C-130J-30.
Maybe it's a good time to look at four of those Pommy C-130J up for grabs.
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
Maybe it's a good time to look at four of those Pommy C-130J up for grabs.
I know the pommy J's may be old & worn and there's all the arguments about systems integration & combability etc etc and all the reasons that makes them too risky on paper, but yes aren't we now getting to a point that we're so desperate that maybe we should take them up? You and I know that won't be given a 2nd thought tho!

The way NZDF platforms get replaced these days it seems they welcome the wind-down of one before the replacement gets delivered (let alone FOC) as it saves money & probably helps cope with skills shortages... all related to our poor level of defence spending. We're saw this with RNZN's Tanker, and now with C130H & P3-K2 replacements... mind you I was astounded when the RAF lost the Nimrods and with it effectively all meaningful MPA capability for an entire decade!

I'm sure this lull between retirement & replacement of platforms is a conscious thing the NZDF likely does to give temporary relief to budget pressures. You can guarantee Govt will be telling NZD they're damned lucky to be getting new gear at all so they'll need to just suck it up! If Govt weasel out of the EMAC project then we'll have a real problem on our hands...the EMAC project actually does have good potential to please the Aussies.

One thing the Aussie sub deal & all the chatter has done is not only start to show the public our defence shortcomings, but it's compounding pressure on the political parties to deal with the rising threats in our region... we all know we won't be hearing half the back-room chatter! I still wouldn't expect the Govt to do a turnaround, but it will likely mean Govt now start to realise they need to be cautious just what & how much they kick the can down the road and what doing so would men for implications to our foreign policy settings.

Jeesuuus we now have 2-3 operational transport aircraft (both C130H & B757) most of the time... we can barely do HADR! How the farken heck can anyone put their hand on their heart in NZ, look you in the eye, and say 'we pull our weight...we punch above our weight' :mad::mad::mad:
 

Shanesworld

Well-Known Member
I know the pommy J's may be old & worn and there's all the arguments about systems integration & combability etc etc and all the reasons that makes them too risky on paper, but yes aren't we now getting to a point that we're so desperate that maybe we should take them up? You and I know that won't be given a 2nd thought tho!

The way NZDF platforms get replaced these days it seems they welcome the wind-down of one before the replacement gets delivered (let alone FOC) as it saves money & probably helps cope with skills shortages... all related to our poor level of defence spending. We're saw this with RNZN's Tanker, and now with C130H & P3-K2 replacements... mind you I was astounded when the RAF lost the Nimrods and with it effectively all meaningful MPA capability for an entire decade!

I'm sure this lull between retirement & replacement of platforms is a conscious thing the NZDF likely does to give temporary relief to budget pressures. You can guarantee Govt will be telling NZD they're damned lucky to be getting new gear at all so they'll need to just suck it up! If Govt weasel out of the EMAC project then we'll have a real problem on our hands...the EMAC project actually does have good potential to please the Aussies.

One thing the Aussie sub deal & all the chatter has done is not only start to show the public our defence shortcomings, but it's compounding pressure on the political parties to deal with the rising threats in our region... we all know we won't be hearing half the back-room chatter! I still wouldn't expect the Govt to do a turnaround, but it will likely mean Govt now start to realise they need to be cautious just what & how much they kick the can down the road and what doing so would men for implications to our foreign policy settings.

Jeesuuus we now have 2-3 operational transport aircraft (both C130H & B757) most of the time... we can barely do HADR! How the farken heck can anyone put their hand on their heart in NZ, look you in the eye, and say 'we pull our weight...we punch above our weight' :mad::mad::mad:
Anybody up for a persistent emailing campaign?
We could "raise awareness". But not get paid for it.
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
Anybody up for a persistent emailing campaign?
We could "raise awareness". But not get paid for it.

I'd do so if I could be sure it was part of a well managed, balanced & co-ordinated approach.. if it becomes just a bitch-fest to politicians & media it will have the exact opposite effect of that desired. It would quickly fall apart overnight if it became a forum for wish-lists...and we all know how forums like this quickly descend into just that.

I've twice got myself a face-to-face audience with National (opposition) defence spokes-persons (one was Mapp, the other was completely forgettable)... basically they asked for an audience after I wrote letters that took me months to get right. In both cases it quickly came apparent that opportunity to meet was only offered as I at least sounded like I knew what I was talking about, and more importantly they were clearly mostly focused on getting points on the board against Labour than they were actually getting serious about Defence policy... neither of them seemed to know fark-all about Defence capabilities & the whole Defence, Trade & Foreign Affairs 3-legged stool most other countries understand.

Mapp did helpfully say what gets their attention.... don't give them shopping lists, they need statistics & facts...and if you don't capture their attention in the first 2 paragraphs they won't read any further.... so go for it!
 

Xthenaki

Active Member
I'd do so if I could be sure it was part of a well managed, balanced & co-ordinated approach.. if it becomes just a bitch-fest to politicians & media it will have the exact opposite effect of that desired. It would quickly fall apart overnight if it became a forum for wish-lists...and we all know how forums like this quickly descend into just that.

I've twice got myself a face-to-face audience with National (opposition) defence spokes-persons (one was Mapp, the other was completely forgettable)... basically they asked for an audience after I wrote letters that took me months to get right. In both cases it quickly came apparent that opportunity to meet was only offered as I at least sounded like I knew what I was talking about, and more importantly they were clearly mostly focused on getting points on the board against Labour than they were actually getting serious about Defence policy... neither of them seemed to know fark-all about Defence capabilities & the whole Defence, Trade & Foreign Affairs 3-legged stool most other countries understand.

Mapp did helpfully say what gets their attention.... don't give them shopping lists, they need statistics & facts...and if you don't capture their attention in the first 2 paragraphs they won't read any further.... so go for it!
Just remember = The MOD office orobablry has a "For Lease" or "Do not disturb" sign on the door. Maybe if you address your emails to Lost MOD c/. Ministry for Health you might have some success. cheers
 

Jellybeen

New Member
I know the pommy J's may be old & worn and there's all the arguments about systems integration & combability etc etc and all the reasons that makes them too risky on paper, but yes aren't we now getting to a point that we're so desperate that maybe we should take them up? You and I know that won't be given a 2nd thought tho!

The way NZDF platforms get replaced these days it seems they welcome the wind-down of one before the replacement gets delivered (let alone FOC) as it saves money & probably helps cope with skills shortages... all related to our poor level of defence spending. We're saw this with RNZN's Tanker, and now with C130H & P3-K2 replacements... mind you I was astounded when the RAF lost the Nimrods and with it effectively all meaningful MPA capability for an entire decade!

I'm sure this lull between retirement & replacement of platforms is a conscious thing the NZDF likely does to give temporary relief to budget pressures. You can guarantee Govt will be telling NZD they're damned lucky to be getting new gear at all so they'll need to just suck it up! If Govt weasel out of the EMAC project then we'll have a real problem on our hands...the EMAC project actually does have good potential to please the Aussies.

One thing the Aussie sub deal & all the chatter has done is not only start to show the public our defence shortcomings, but it's compounding pressure on the political parties to deal with the rising threats in our region... we all know we won't be hearing half the back-room chatter! I still wouldn't expect the Govt to do a turnaround, but it will likely mean Govt now start to realise they need to be cautious just what & how much they kick the can down the road and what doing so would men for implications to our foreign policy settings.

Jeesuuus we now have 2-3 operational transport aircraft (both C130H & B757) most of the time... we can barely do HADR! How the farken heck can anyone put their hand on their heart in NZ, look you in the eye, and say 'we pull our weight...we punch above our weight' :mad::mad::mad:
I'm wonder if we should set up a give a little page and fund for the poor RNZAF the politicians sure don't seem to give a crap in the short term. A strong defence force is like insurance you hate paying the bill but boy when your house burns down you thank your maker that you have it . As a kiwi im ashamed at the continued decline ,I sure do hope that the average kiwi will wake up to where we as a country are heading, we are being led by very poor politicians from both sides of the house. My father who gave six years of his life in the service of this country during WW2 would be turning in has grave......
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Jeesuuus we now have 2-3 operational transport aircraft (both C130H & B757) most of the time... we can barely do HADR! How the farken heck can anyone put their hand on their heart in NZ, look you in the eye, and say 'we pull our weight...we punch above our weight' :mad::mad::mad:
We have not come close to pulling or weight for the last 20-30 years, but it is a good political statement that the pollies love to drag out to fool the uneducated (defence wise) public to cover there tracks. In other words just another piece of political BS.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
We were hardly pulling our weight when I was in the RNZN, in 80's... (but a hell of a lot better than we are now) but I have just watched it go downhill even further ever since...
It is sad to see indeed, across the whole of the NZDF.

In the 80's and early 90's, and probably before that too, the Kiwis were highly regarded and acknowledged as probably the best sub hunters in the game. They were uncanny, saw it first hand many times in exercises.

Not sure if they still have that level, it was something they could bring to the game as a smaller navy, it was a really good role and niche capability they found for themselves to offer into the broader mix.
 

Nighthawk.NZ

Well-Known Member
It is sad to see indeed, across the whole of the NZDF.

In the 80's and early 90's, and probably before that too, the Kiwis were highly regarded and acknowledged as probably the best sub hunters in the game. They were uncanny, saw it first hand many times in exercises.

Not sure if they still have that level, it was something they could bring to the game as a smaller navy, it was a really good role and niche capability they found for themselves to offer into the broader mix.
Don't know about now...

But remember doing many ASW exercises and in the OP's room and giving the Aussie Subs a run for their money... :-/
 

Nighthawk.NZ

Well-Known Member
It's been reported on social media that the first of the P-3K2 Orions will be making its last flight tomorrow. NZ4203 is to depart Whenuapai for Woodbourne where it is to be dismantled. The source of the information is reasonably reliable.
Well there you have it from the horse's mouth as the saying goes... still seems a bit early ... but


 
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MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
This aircraft is the first of the fleet of six to retire before we welcome the new P-8A Poseidon fleet.

What? The cannot be the case.

It has be that the writer of their Facebook posts is a undereducated millennial who was not taught the correct use of prepositions!
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
This aircraft is the first of the fleet of six to retire before we welcome the new P-8A Poseidon fleet.

What? The cannot be the case.

It has be that the writer of their Facebook posts is a undereducated millennial who was not taught the correct use of prepositions!
Hmmm, what just like the RAF did 10 years ago you mean?
 

Arclighy

Member
Always sad to see the retirement of an aircraft type. The Orions have been great servants of air forces around the world. Both NZ and Australia have been well served by them.
 

KiwiRob

Well-Known Member
What will be interesting to see is will the govt realise 4 doesn't replace 6. Yes these 4 are faster and as newer aircraft they won't require as much maintenance but 4 can't be in as many places as 6.
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
What will be interesting to see is will the govt realise 4 doesn't replace 6. Yes these 4 are faster and as newer aircraft they won't require as much maintenance but 4 can't be in as many places as 6.
I know I sound like a broken record but the EMAC project is about that & Ron Mark & DCP stated 4 P8 wouldn't be enough. Think the question might be more...will Govt realise they need to deliver in full on the EMAC project?
 

KiwiRob

Well-Known Member
I know I sound like a broken record but the EMAC project is about that & Ron Mark & DCP stated 4 P8 wouldn't be enough. Think the question might be more...will Govt realise they need to deliver in full on the EMAC project?
You might not have noticed but Ron Mark isn't in Parliament anymore and to date there doesn't appear to be any movement on the EMAC project. It really wouldn't surprise me if 4 P8's is it. The DCP also signalled more A109's were required, they're cheap, they still haven't been ordered.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
You might not have noticed but Ron Mark isn't in Parliament anymore and to date there doesn't appear to be any movement on the EMAC project. It really wouldn't surprise me if 4 P8's is it. The DCP also signalled more A109's were required, they're cheap, they still haven't been ordered.
Rob. Please refrain from making snide and patronising comments to other posters. It adds zero value to the thread. We just don't need anymore of it. There was no connection between what Gibbo said in reference to Ron Marks views as a MP and Defence Minister last term and the current DCP with him no longer being in parliament now. It completely undermines the relevant follow up comments you made.

It is this type of posting behaviour from you that I am tired of getting complaints about. You have already been kicked off one thread here in the last couple of days. I just would not push your luck if I was you.
 
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