Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
Defence has purchased a 99ha farm at Ohakea for $6.4m as it is said to be needed for future operations of the P8 aircraft. Exactly what land it is I don't know, but as a significant amount of land around Ohakea was already owned by defence it may be the land to either the south or east of the base and while the article mentions the south this is not necessarily totally correct. It would seem that 99ha (990000 sq metres) is a fairly big lump of land and I know in the past the tried to purchase some of the land to the north but the owner wanted a fortune for it. My own thinking is that it may involve the lengthening of a runway (15-33? ) as well as other works. Is it possible that they are thinking long term and it could involve the closing of Whenuapai.
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It's a reasonably small farm of only around 250 acres so wonder if it was dairy farm and a small one at that. If that's the case Defence would've paid top dollar. Unfortunately @Rob c land prices are high so you basically have to sell the kids and the grandkids now to get a decent plot. Between the cows, the wine and the land banking around the main regional centres it's a gold mind for Kiwis property addiction.
Regarding your question about WP, that could be a reason with future proofing going on. I am not sure though and it's only a guess on my part.
yep did not count the zero's properly
Would be about a 300 cow farm in that area producing in the region of about 90000 kg milk solids give or take, so a tidy little earner . Wp only a guess on my part also.
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I don't mind another dairy farm being taken out. Not fond of cow cockies myself, but then that's my prejudices from having grown up in Eastern Southland when it was 9 sheep to the acre and the local cockies bought new Falcons, Holdens and race horses every year when the wool cheque and freezing works cheque arrived.
90,000 kg of milk solids is a good earner with the forecast payout being in the mid $7 - 8 range per kg of milk solids. It might even get over the $8 mark. We'll see.
The MOD have have issued a NOI for the EMAC
So it's a capability that's not quite what we were expecting. My argument now is that since it is for other departments and civilian use only, then those departments pay for the full whole of life costs including acquisition and that the MOD and NZDF be paid by those departments fees for enabling this acquisition.
EDIT: Source added.
"The Enhanced Maritime Awareness Capability (EMAC) project is seeking a Capability which contributes to the Community (environmental wellbeing and resilience) and Nation (safe and resilient, including on its borders and approaches – secure air, sea and electronic lines of communication and secure access to space based systems). The direction from Government is that the EMAC will be shaped to share the P-8A burden for civilian tasks.
The EMAC is not a typical Defence procurement project as the user requirements are driven solely by government agencies other than Defence. This community has a broad spectrum of diverse requirements which are being distilled to a common set to allow the project to investigate solutions to a manageable scope. The project team will also be considering the operating and sustainment aspects of various capability systems, as the investment logic will encompass the whole of life implications. As the environment in which we are developing the EMAC is characterised by its large area, and a diverse range of risks and threats about which the agencies need to maintain awareness across the domain, the final capability is likely to involve a mix of capability elements (platforms) creating a layered solution.
The project team has already engaged with a number of suppliers to gain an understanding of the market’s technical capabilities and ability to supply solutions that meet the agencies requirements including (in no particular order) – data distribution / data fusion, commercial satellite coverage, piloted aircraft, Remotely Piloted Air Systems (RPAS) of varying sizes.
Support, operating and ownership models of the capability elements are not finalised at the moment, with the project team open to a range of acquisition options including Government Owned/Contractor Operated, Surveillance As a Service or Government Owned/Government Operated.
The project team is now offering the opportunity for suppliers that have a proven track record in delivering one or more of the capability elements."
So it's a capability that's not quite what we were expecting. My argument now is that since it is for other departments and civilian use only, then those departments pay for the full whole of life costs including acquisition and that the MOD and NZDF be paid by those departments fees for enabling this acquisition.
EDIT: Source added.
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Gracie1234
Well-Known Member
That is an impressive list of capabilities they are open too. They are looking at a whole systems approach to the problem, i was surprised they added electric lines of communication. To me, that would be the undersea cables as well as satellites.
I am not that well informed but from a layering point of view:
Satellite providing the widest view of our EEZ, to assist with planning the best use of the resource available such as planes, RPAS and OPVs
Long-range RPAS to provide a closer picture at the extremes of the EEZ
Medium range maritime surveillance planes such as an ATR 72, these could also be based in the pacific island to support our neighbours
Small VTOL RPAS based on the OPVs for closer surveillance
I would expect that all of these systems would provide data that would be aggregated into a decision support systems utilising AI.
This looks over a $1B programme of work, great to see the brakes have not been placed on implementing the capability plan.
I am not that well informed but from a layering point of view:
Satellite providing the widest view of our EEZ, to assist with planning the best use of the resource available such as planes, RPAS and OPVs
Long-range RPAS to provide a closer picture at the extremes of the EEZ
Medium range maritime surveillance planes such as an ATR 72, these could also be based in the pacific island to support our neighbours
Small VTOL RPAS based on the OPVs for closer surveillance
I would expect that all of these systems would provide data that would be aggregated into a decision support systems utilising AI.
This looks over a $1B programme of work, great to see the brakes have not been placed on implementing the capability plan.
RetirementIsGood
New Member
In this context, it may or may not be significant that Judith Collins has allocated Defence an apparently very low priority
"#24. Chris Penk: Shadow Attorney-General, Defence, Courts, Veterans"
National's new shadow Cabinet: Andrew Bayly shoots up the ranks, Paul Goldsmith loses finance
"#24. Chris Penk: Shadow Attorney-General, Defence, Courts, Veterans"
National's new shadow Cabinet: Andrew Bayly shoots up the ranks, Paul Goldsmith loses finance
Oh good! The RNZAF is buying the billion dollar P8 capability to enhance “environmental wellbeing and resilience”.
I bet that’s what the platform developers had in mind for its use.
The BS jargon!
“Diverse requirements being distilled to a common set”
“Investigate solutions to a manageable scope”
Staff courses used to discourage such nonsense and teach to write in plain English, I guess the “wellbeing” generation prefer the meaningless comfort food phrases.
Rant over!
Are you really surprised!?! A unbiased analysis of defence purchase approvals over the last 40 years might surprise you!
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Don't worry about the fluffy talk... it's just political speak to soften the populace for the inevitable $1B+ budget that will be directed toward Defence.
None of this is that surprising if the DCP is read fully. Actually this is a very good plan... shows maturity in thinking that finally admits NZ has not been able to police it's EEZ & SAR zones effectively for probably ever! This is absolutely no slight on the NZDF who have been given the task since whenever...this all about Govt's not spending the $$$ to resource effective capability and then leaning on the NZDF to do it with an ever-decreasing toolkit. The beauty of this project is it will allow the RNZAF to task the P8A with less civvy support roles & more military taskings... they'll always have SAR & patrol taskings but this will give them a multi-layered alternative capability.
I'm making a call it will not be an armed capability.
RetirementIsGood
New Member
I agree.
This is a Maritime ISR capability requirement set, not MPA, and definitely not ASuW
It's very obvious that it will not be an armed capability.
The direction from Government is that the EMAC will be shaped to share the P-8A burden for civilian tasks.
The EMAC is not a typical Defence procurement project as the user requirements are driven solely by government agencies other than Defence.
It states quite clearly that its civilian orientated.
The 2019 DCP states that the the budget for the project is $300 - 600 million, so don't get carried away with any fancy stuff. It's highly doubtful that there will be a significant injection of CAPEX funds to Defence for extra capability and platforms.
Yep right on the nail...ISR only.
RetirementIsGood
New Member
Presumably the delivered capability will include a RadarSat downlink station or possibly two, aimed at getting AIS & ADS-B beacons and radar pictures of the Ross Sea and Southern Ocean from birds in their ascending (northbound) orbit.
If we did a deal with Australia to swap information we get with equivalent information about the next 'slices' west, both countries could get very situational awareness of 'our' one-third of the Southern Ocean
If we did a deal with Australia to swap information we get with equivalent information about the next 'slices' west, both countries could get very situational awareness of 'our' one-third of the Southern Ocean
It's very hard to say at the moment. They have only issued greater details in the NOI (Notice Of Information) above and we know the upper limit of the budget ($600 million) because that's stated in the 2019 DCP.
However that $600 million is only going to buy you $400 million of capability because the remainder will consist of items such as maintenance, training, simulators, manuals etc. So in actual fact it may not necessarily buy us a lot. To give an example recently the US Congress approved the sale of 4 x MQ-9B SeaGuardian RPAS to Taiwan with an estimated value of US$600 million which is about NZ$890 million. It includes 2 fixed and 2 mobile ground stations and excludes weapons. That's the top end cost and the price will be negotiated down, but if we went down that route we would require an absolute minimum of 3 of the RPAS in order to have a viable capability. However dropping the acquisition by 1 RPAS doesn't reduce the cost significantly. I am given to understand that the main cost drivers in these systems are the satellite ground stations and control stations.
Having said all that Defence are only speaking to industry at the moment to see what options are available and what industry may have to offer. After the discussions Defence will analyse the information gained and distill what options appear to be best suited to the policy directive that the government has issued. This will result in a set of requirements that they will submit to the Minister for guidance. This could take a year to 18 months before they gain Cabinet approval to issue a RFI (Request For Information) based upon a specific set of requirements. A lot can happen between now and the issuing of the RFI.
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Actually this is a very positive move ... and it's not that Defence has been given a "very low priority" by the Leader of the Opposition (which is somewhat irrelevant anyway as being in opposition the National Party have no clout to enable anything related to defence) .... instead it appears to show that new National Party leader Judith Collins is picking her team on their strengths and competence. And in this case it demonstrates Ms Collins has a great deal of confidence in the abilities of Chris Penk.
Penk only entered Parliament at the last election in 2017 (I think he was ranked 64 at the time?), and since the elevation of Collins as leader a couple of months ago he moved up to 41 (Stuff are saying 37 for some reason) then since the reshuffle yesterday has jumped to 24.
And he is the "right man" for the shadow Defence role (and that's not a slight on the excellent work Mark Mitchell had done previously, including holding the 2017 Labour Govt and former DefMin Ron Mark "to account" over the (then) slow progress of the P-8A and C-130J acquisitions, all that whilst in Opposition)! For National now has a shadow defence spokesperson with a solid background in the military, serving with both the RNZN and RAN at the sharp end.
Some background media reports on Chris Penk. Clearly he's a driven man, striving for excellence and he will make an excellent DefMin should the Opposition reclaim the treasury benches in the future!
The Sure Things: Chris Penk
37-year-old Chris Penk is set to replace former PM Sir John Key in the safe seat of Helensville.
www.newsroom.co.nz
Slight change in topic, although RNZAF related
It's gutting that Wing Commander Tim Costley missed out joining Chris Penk in Parliament this election. For a guy that worked so hard and did the hard yards only to be beaten by the "red-wave" that swept the nation because of the "covid fear" (and slanted msm coverage) that saw alot of mediocre first-time "no-name" MP's elected into government ... hopefully Mr Costley keeps up a presence for perhaps his time will come next election.
We always complain about the lack of ex-defence folk in Parliament, but looks like National are (or will or could be) in good hands! For balance Labour's appointment of Peeni Henare as DefMin is also an excellent move, he appears to be a man of great "mana" (respected) and has done well, competently, in recent years as Minister of Civil Defence. But he is still up against the Labour Party machine (indifferent to defence, somewhat more UN focused when it has to be) but all power to Peeni Henare and if he can get the "Maori caucus" to flex their muscles in behind him then we could be in for an interesting next three years!
kiwi in exile
Active Member
What's with all the "inverted commas"
The sterotype that labour is anti defence and national is pro defence needs a second look. Look at the recent spending on defence under a labour govt. While in 9 years under national capabilities were allowed to be run down and NZ soldiers patrolled afghanistan in flat bottomed Humvees and SAS pinzgauers
"covid fear"? are you doubting covid?
Agreed- iti s great to have more parliamentarians with NZDF experience
@kiwi in exile Be very careful you are standing into danger by getting into the political minefield. I strongly suggest that you lay in a new course quickly.
Ngatimozart.
The sterotype that labour is anti defence and national is pro defence needs a second look. Look at the recent spending on defence under a labour govt. While in 9 years under national capabilities were allowed to be run down and NZ soldiers patrolled afghanistan in flat bottomed Humvees and SAS pinzgauers
"covid fear"? are you doubting covid?
Agreed- iti s great to have more parliamentarians with NZDF experience
@kiwi in exile Be very careful you are standing into danger by getting into the political minefield. I strongly suggest that you lay in a new course quickly.
Ngatimozart.
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Why would they buy Volvos when the recently purchased truck fleet is M.A.N.?