Royal New Zealand Air Force

[Gibbo]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Well dare I say it but given these are extraordinary times I expect we'll see any move on ordering C130H replacements this year will not get past cabinet & treasury... regardless of all the strong arguments why we can't delay this order I think we need to accept it's unlikely to happen for at least 18 months. There's just no way with massive economic fallout they can announce a $2B aircraft purchase in the middle of it all. I suspect that extend to any other defence projects over & above 'operational' spending.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Well dare I say it but given these are extraordinary times I expect we'll see any move on ordering C130H replacements this year will not get past cabinet & treasury... regardless of all the strong arguments why we can't delay this order I think we need to accept it's unlikely to happen for at least 18 months. There's just no way with massive economic fallout they can announce a $2B aircraft purchase in the middle of it all. I suspect that extend to any other defence projects over & above 'operational' spending.

I was thinking exactly the same thing, govt will find ANY excuse to not spend on the military, and this is as good a reason as any. Although if there is a crisis where we need to send medical teams or personell otherwise, it's going to be likely we will have more groundings of our Hercules like before.

And this also shows just how dependant we all are on China for goods and services.Pity something can't be done about that. I hope they don't close the schools, my jobs on the line .

 

[Redlands18]

I was thinking exactly the same thing, govt will find ANY excuse to not spend on the military, and this is as good a reason as any. Although if there is a crisis where we need to send medical teams or personell otherwise, it's going to be likely we will have more groundings of our Hercules like before.

And this also shows just how dependant we all are on China for goods and services.Pity something can't be done about that. I hope they don't close the schools, my jobs on the line .

If anything a crisis like this shows exactly why a Government should have a robust dependable Air Tpt capability that is on call 24/7

 

[Todjaeger]

If anything a crisis like this shows exactly why a Government should have a robust dependable Air Tpt capability that is on call 24/7

Stop talking sense. You will just confuse certain segments of the population...

 

[ngatimozart]

We can but wait and see. I have my own views on the matter and am not wanting to put ideas into their heads.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Well dare I say it but given these are extraordinary times I expect we'll see any move on ordering C130H replacements this year will not get past cabinet & treasury... regardless of all the strong arguments why we can't delay this order I think we need to accept it's unlikely to happen for at least 18 months. There's just no way with massive economic fallout they can announce a $2B aircraft purchase in the middle of it all. I suspect that extend to any other defence projects over & above 'operational' spending.

I can think of ways that they can make it politically acceptable and the public will accept that the aircraft need to be replaced. Unlike a lot of govts around the world, the NZG does have a significant amount of room to move financially. However whether Treasury and the pollies understand and see that is a completely different story. Treasury have a deep undying emotional attachment to every cent in the govts coffers.

And this also shows just how dependant we all are on China for goods and services.Pity something can't be done about that. I hope they don't close the schools, my jobs on the line .

We do and it's called globalisation. I have been reading over the last couple of weeks that some pundits suggest this crisis may be the death of globalisation per se. Certainly having one country supplying a significant quantity of the worlds manufacturing capability is not such a bright idea and I think alternate suppliers will be found. The COVID-19 crisis has certainly illuminated a significant weakness in the globalisation model.

Our biggest problem with the PRC besides the obvious economic one is that both our major political parties are knee deep in Chinese money for campaign funding and that is of major concern. Just how much has the United Front penetrated and has influence within both those parties remains to be known. It does create significant security concerns.

 

[40 deg south]

Pentagon Contract Announcement

The Boeing Co., Seattle, Washington, is awarded a $1,554,398,639 modification (P000170) to a previously awarded fixed-price-incentive, cost-plus-fixed-fee contract (N00019-14-C-0067).

This modification procures 18 Lot 11 P-8A maritime aircraft for the Navy (eight); the government of New Zealand (four); and the Republic of Korea (six).

Too late for NZ to cancel the P-8 order!

Boeing shuts down KC-46, P-8 plants for two weeks because of COVID-19 - UPI.com

Boeing announced a two-week shutdown of its Seattle-area plants on Monday, stopping production of KC-46 refueling and P-8 surveillance military planes.

www.upi.com

However, there may be some production delays.

 

[ngatimozart]

Pentagon Contract Announcement

Too late for NZ to cancel the P-8 order!

Boeing shuts down KC-46, P-8 plants for two weeks because of COVID-19 - UPI.com

Boeing announced a two-week shutdown of its Seattle-area plants on Monday, stopping production of KC-46 refueling and P-8 surveillance military planes.

www.upi.com

However, there may be some production delays.

Yep sure is, but good to see that progress is happening. Would like to know what they are doing about the C-130J-30 acquisition. Our C-130H(NZ) fleet is very near to the end of its life. Any airframe hours must be in the low hundreds for each aircraft.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

Yep sure is, but good to see that progress is happening. Would like to know what they are doing about the C-130J-30 acquisition. Our C-130H(NZ) fleet is very near to the end of its life. Any airframe hours must be in the low hundreds for each aircraft.

Boeing Receives P-8A Poseidon Contract for U.S. Navy, ROK Navy & RNZAF - Naval News

The Republic of Korea Navy and Royal New Zealand Air Force acquired the aircraft through the Foreign Military Sales process and will receive the same P-8A Poseidon variant designed and produced for the U.S. Navy. The Royal New Zealand Air Force is expected to begin receiving aircraft in 2022 and the Republic of Korea Navy is expected to begin receiving aircraft in 2023.

The P-8 is a proven long-range multi-mission maritime patrol aircraft capable of broad-area, maritime and littoral operations. A military derivative of the Boeing 737 Next-Generation airplane, the P-8 combines superior performance and reliability with an advanced mission system that ensures maximum interoperability in the battle space.

The P-8 is militarized with maritime weapons, a modern open mission system architecture and commercial-like support for affordability. The aircraft is modified to include a bomb bay and pylons for weapons. It has two weapons stations on each wing and can carry 129 sonobuoys. The aircraft is also fitted with an in-flight refueling system.

With more than 254,000 flight hours to date, the P-8A Poseidon and P-8I variants patrol the globe performing anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare; intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance; humanitarian; and search and rescue missions.

Boeing Receives P-8A Poseidon Contract for U.S. Navy, ROK Navy & RNZAF - Naval News

@Nighthawknz You have been on here long enough to know the rules. No copying and pasting without original comment.On to of this the information had already be posted by 40°S to whom I was replying. I should put you on stoppage of leave and grog plus some number nines, but I worked for a living. Maybe a 2 and a 4 delivered to the Moderators mess would suffice.

Ngatimozart

 

[Gibbo]

Interesting to see 40Sqn taking a civvy chopper to Vanuatu... would be interested to know what the 'arrangement' is (NZDF chartered or carrying it for an Aid organisation), and if it sets any sort of precedent...

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

The Defence Force C-130 Hercules will fly to the Pacific Island nation this week carrying a private helicopter, satellite phones, chainsaw kits, and agricultural equipment, to assist with relief.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

@Nighthawknz You have been on here long enough to know the rules. No copying and pasting without original comment.On to of this the information had already be posted by 40°S to whom I was replying. I should put you on stoppage of leave and grog plus some number nines, but I worked for a living. Maybe a 2 and a 4 delivered to the Moderators mess would suffice.

Ngatimozart

Bugger, I thought I did post a comment... I basically said according to this article that it still all go and probably on time (ish) and few other bits and bobs...

I probably had 15 windows open at the time and closed the wrong window, while working and editing a video oppppsss.

 

[OldTex]

Yep sure is, but good to see that progress is happening. Would like to know what they are doing about the C-130J-30 acquisition. Our C-130H(NZ) fleet is very near to the end of its life. Any airframe hours must be in the low hundreds for each aircraft.

Perhaps a solution for the RNZAF transport fleet would be to procure 2 or 3 of the ex-RAF Hercules C.Mk4 (C-130J-30) or C.Mk5 (C-130J) to extend the life of existing C-130H airframes. Not sure how the airworthiness, operation, training and maintenance practices align between the RNZAF and RAF. It is these aspects that could make such a purchase uneconomical.

 

[ngatimozart]

Perhaps a solution for the RNZAF transport fleet would be to procure 2 or 3 of the ex-RAF Hercules C.Mk4 (C-130J-30) or C.Mk5 (C-130J) to extend the life of existing C-130H airframes. Not sure how the airworthiness, operation, training and maintenance practices align between the RNZAF and RAF. It is these aspects that could make such a purchase uneconomical.

Nah, they'll be pretty knackered because the RAF will have used them hard; Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. They would cost us a lot to keep flying and we know that, having had experience with used aircraft (Andovers) and ships (Leander class frigates Southland and Wellington). It ends up putting good money after bad.

 

[OldTex]

Nah, they'll be pretty knackered because the RAF will have used them hard; Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. They would cost us a lot to keep flying and we know that, having had experience with used aircraft (Andovers) and ships (Leander class frigates Southland and Wellington). It ends up putting good money after bad.

So the alternatives for maintaining a transport fleet are what? Unless something is done RNZAF will be going the way of the Argentine FAA and being able to only operate some trainers, helicopters and a couple of MPA.

 

[Rob c]

Nah, they'll be pretty knackered because the RAF will have used them hard; Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. They would cost us a lot to keep flying and we know that, having had experience with used aircraft (Andovers) and ships (Leander class frigates Southland and Wellington). It ends up putting good money after bad.

That may not be the way the bean counters see it as they often don't view capital and operational costs as equals so a bit more operational costs and a lot less capital input may find favor with them as the lower capital cost would attract a lower amount of depreciation and a smaller amount of capital charge to off set any increase in operational expense. I don't know how the frigates performed, but i was at D.Eng in the late 70's and dealt with the Andover at the time and as time went on they got pretty good after a poor start and performed increasingly well, the only ongoing problems being parts that were unique to them due to them being a limited production run in numbers. This would not be the case with a C 130 the big question would be how much fatigue life had been expended.

 

[chis73]

Not sure how many RAF C-130Js there are left anyway. As far as I am aware they were keeping most, if not all, of their 14 C-130J-30s (till 2030, due to the underwhelming A400M), and most of the 'short' C.Mk5 C-130Js are now sold. They had 10: at least one (maybe two) written off in Iraq, 5 have gone to Bangladesh, 2 to Bahrain, and one to the USN (for the Blue Angels display team)

P.S. Just checked: one C-130J (C.5) written off in Iraq in 2017, one C-130J-30 (C.4) written off in Iraq in Feb 2007. So by my reckoning that leaves one RAF C.5 left.

 

[Rob c]

What ever happens post covid 19 could be a complete change in thinking and I think we can expect a significant number of countries to be cutting defence budgets significantly. (polly's always seem to slash defence first )So what is available and at what price could all change. There was a treasury report stating that our current H's could be safely flown past 2025, I would not be surprised if the C 130 replacement was put on hold.

 

[chis73]

A Correction to my previous post: the reference site (c-130.net) I used may have been incorrect. The RAF C-130J lost in 2017 may have been a C-130J-30 (C.Mk4) as well. So maybe there are still 2 C-130J (C.Mk5) available for sale. Either way, probably not enough to consider seriously.

What ever happens post covid 19 could be a complete change in thinking and I think we can expect a significant number of countries to be cutting defence budgets significantly. (polly's always seem to slash defence first )So what is available and at what price could all change. There was a treasury report stating that our current H's could be safely flown past 2025, I would not be surprised if the C 130 replacement was put on hold.

Agreed. It will be curious to see what happens (or what doesn't) in the Budget this year. Sadly, I'm expecting a delay as well. I wonder how long the FMS approval is valid for (1 year?). Strangely, we asked for exactly 5, not up to 5. That may have some bearing.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

A Correction to my previous post: the reference site (c-130.net) I used may have been incorrect. The RAF C-130J lost in 2017 may have been a C-130J-30 (C.Mk4) as well. So maybe there are still 2 C-130J (C.Mk5) available for sale. Either way, probably not enough to consider seriously.



Agreed. It will be curious to see what happens (or what doesn't) in the Budget this year. Sadly, I'm expecting a delay as well. I wonder how long the FMS approval is valid for (1 year?). Strangely, we asked for exactly 5, not up to 5. That may have some bearing.

I would of thought additional hercs would of been in order, given the increased number of natural disasters being reported over the years among other missions they have been reported as unavailable for.

Can't see how Nz defence articles posted here talk about us having an increased presence in the Pacific with less available planes and ships.Case in point being what's going on in Fiji and Tonga right now with another Cyclone on top of a covid 19 outbreak in the region. No doubt we will see a few more HADR missions there before they retire the hercules.

 

[Brucedog]

The RAF is keeping all the C130-J-30's (C4) and one C-130J (C5). They were going to have an all C4 fleet until they lost one. They want 14 aircraft so are keeping one C5.

 

[Brucedog]

Boeing has announced the restart of P-8 (& KC-46) production after a CV-19 related shutdown. Hopefully production will continue and keep the costs from increasing.