A lot of activity out of Whenuapai today. About 8-10 landings/approaches of Orions, I don't know if it was the same one each time. The majority of time, the flight path is directly over my work place.
Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
An Aussie C17 arrived at Whenuapai this afternoon, it took off again (don't know when) and then landed again a few hours later. Maybe they were practicing landings/approaches at Whenuapai because it seems odd to my uninformed mind that they would fly for hours to get to New Zealand and then land and take off again for a few hours.
t68
Well-Known Member
found this little gem on another forum I visit, its USADF centric for the replacement to C130E/H. But what I found interesting is revisiting the C27J option,
Costly Flight Hours | TIME.com
If I'm doing my math correct you are only saving 33% of the cost to move 40% of what a C130J can move with a C27J, that confirms Mr C analysis sometime ago about a battlefield lifter and tactical loads strategic distance. But on the other hand are the loads being moved within the region to the islands full loads ie are the loads greater than 40% of the lift capacity of C130J.
Time Magazine has listed the C130-J as having a costed flight hour of $14,014 USD(2013) so in theory if a C27J saves 33% you should save approx $4624.62USD, I'm not sure what the current budgeted flight hours per aircraft is but ill say roughly 600hrs. if a 3x regional airlifters were acquired and flown the estimated flight hours, that's a potential cost saving of $ 2774400.00USD per regional lifter.
Is that cost saving worth having 2 types of aircraft in the tactical role?
Replacing the C-130E
Costly Flight Hours | TIME.com
If I'm doing my math correct you are only saving 33% of the cost to move 40% of what a C130J can move with a C27J, that confirms Mr C analysis sometime ago about a battlefield lifter and tactical loads strategic distance. But on the other hand are the loads being moved within the region to the islands full loads ie are the loads greater than 40% of the lift capacity of C130J.
Time Magazine has listed the C130-J as having a costed flight hour of $14,014 USD(2013) so in theory if a C27J saves 33% you should save approx $4624.62USD, I'm not sure what the current budgeted flight hours per aircraft is but ill say roughly 600hrs. if a 3x regional airlifters were acquired and flown the estimated flight hours, that's a potential cost saving of $ 2774400.00USD per regional lifter.
Is that cost saving worth having 2 types of aircraft in the tactical role?
Other than the C-27J stopped being manufactured two years ago, the NZDF works with other Govt agencies such as MFAT and NZ Aid to achieve efficiencies. It is not just about purely tonnage but also load volume.
You are also making the wrong assumption in that there would be 3 x 600 hours of airlift required into the Pacific using C-27J's. There is no need locally and also the C-27J has no applicability to the other important C-130 role. The CHC-Scott Base air bridge.
t68
Well-Known Member
wasn't aware of that, they must be trying to kick start the order programme with enhancements.
Winglet-equipped C-27J to arrive in 2019
yeah most likely you are right, I based flight hours on average from an old document for the C130 which would have a mix of flight hours to various destinations across the globe.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
With the P3K2's and the C130's both now into their golden years eclipsing the ages of those crewing them will it take one falling from the sky to get the attention of the elected $$$$ holders?
I believe I saw somewhere that the two 757's are pushing 35 years.
How old are the cars assogned to government staffers?
Although I am certain the aircraft are exceptionally well maintained by NZDF staff these are still machines that have to work in the most extreme situations.
I hope that it doesnt happen but my god there has to be a resolution to this soon.
I believe I saw somewhere that the two 757's are pushing 35 years.
How old are the cars assogned to government staffers?
Although I am certain the aircraft are exceptionally well maintained by NZDF staff these are still machines that have to work in the most extreme situations.
I hope that it doesnt happen but my god there has to be a resolution to this soon.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The RCAF Airbus jets aquired from Wardair are no spring chickens nor are our Hornets and Auroras.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
That is very true John. I was to CFB Greenwood today and on display outside at the museum were aircraft used from the base since the second world war including DC3, P2 Neptune, Lancaster, Argus and a CP140. The CP140 may be an Arcturus but regardless that airframe sitting tied down on a concrete pad is at least 15 years younger than the NZ airframes still in service. I realize that IMP does a fantastic job maintaining our fleets of maritime aircraft but the fact remains ours and NZ's are long in the tooth. What type of a response will be provided to the families of those aircrew if something unforeseen happens. We dont ask our first responders; fire, police or paramedics to use equipment of this vintage. Can you imagine the outcry from a resident being served by an ambulance from 1965? Or having a 1965 vintage fire engine arrive to quench a fire? So why does the public allow the proud men and women of the NZDF to continue to operate with antiques?
The two B757-200's serials NZ7571 and 7572 were delivered new to Transavia Airlines in 1993 then sold to the RNZAF in 2003. Still quite a few years left in them - at least five-seven years has been the plan. The C-130H's are truly Nana's and yes they are treated with TLC by the grandsons who maintain and fly the old dears.
The chauffeured crown cars in recent years have been BMW 7 Series LWB diesels and ministerial self drives often are Ford Territory SUV's. They replace the fleet every 5 years. Mere parliamentary staffers are lucky to get a taxi chit or bus pass. For many decades the crown cars were Ford LTD's which other than elderly well off gentleman farmers in the provinces who owned racehorses, the government were the only buyers to be honest. In NZ and Australia the LTD died off when they ran out of old school famers and horse trainers about ten years ago.
Corporate Cabs ran exclusively with LTD's and Fairlianes for many years.
Yes they did too. And Regency Cabs used them for awhile iirc. But that was kind of a late 80's and onwards thing. Lucky for Ford as by that stage all those old farmer boys were dying out by then and the up market cabs kept the sales going. Those old school farmers were the only non fleet buyers and their heyday was in the 70's and 80's.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
Boeing’s P-8 is the 737 with missiles, sonar and a specialty in hunting submarines
Saw this well-written article from the Seattle Times a few weeks back, and I don't think anyone else has posted it yet. It would be interesting to know if their tip about an expected New Zealand order came from sources at Boeing, or via the same internet speculation we all contribute to?
Saw this well-written article from the Seattle Times a few weeks back, and I don't think anyone else has posted it yet. It would be interesting to know if their tip about an expected New Zealand order came from sources at Boeing, or via the same internet speculation we all contribute to?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The current order book allows production out to 2022. The article mentions Boeing hopes to see another 100 additional export orders, that seems like a big number, especially if the Euros want an Airbus solution. Maybe saner heads in Europe will kill that plan and go with a proven solution like the P-8.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
That number does seem rather large, though is Canada, New Zealand and S. Korea all placed orders to replace their P-3 Orion or Orion derivative aircraft, that could potentially add 30+ Poseidon's to the order book. If the production rate is one Poseidon every two months, another 30+ aircraft ordered could extend the line until 2027.
Much of this speculation is also dependent on if or when existing Orion operators are considering lining up their replacements. Several nations that operate MPA have either carried out recent upgrade programmes (completed within the last decade) or have such programmes currently running. Having said that though, it seems like these upgrade and life extension programmes are targeted to keep the Orions viable until the early to mind 30's at the latest. If Airbus can get a comparable MPA to the P-8 up by that time, then such a replacement option could exist. Such a programme could very well also fall apart, since right now it seems like only France and Germany would back such an effort and that size MPA user base is considerably smaller than that of either the P-8 Poseidon, or P-1.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Agreed, the potential sales for a second MPA would likely result in an over priced alternative that even Germany and France might walk away from. Many of the potential customers for the P-8 might opt for a smaller less capable MPA. I would say SK and NZ will go with the P--8, Canada is doubtful at this point although it really is the best solution on a cost/performance assessment.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
http://airforce.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/airforce-news/afn202.pdf
Latest Air Force News is out.
Page 13 reports that an NH90 has flown with external tanks for the first time since the helocopters were purchased. The tanks take half a tonne of fuel each, but the increased range isn't accurately given ('a couple of hundred km' is mentioned, which is surely too low?). Interestingly, it appears you can't winch with both tanks attached, which would limit their usefulness for SAR.
Latest Air Force News is out.
Page 13 reports that an NH90 has flown with external tanks for the first time since the helocopters were purchased. The tanks take half a tonne of fuel each, but the increased range isn't accurately given ('a couple of hundred km' is mentioned, which is surely too low?). Interestingly, it appears you can't winch with both tanks attached, which would limit their usefulness for SAR.
The second RNZAF Kingair 350i is either at Ohakea or on its way to Ohakea from Lord Howe Island.
MRC Aviation: Military Delivery and Export
MRC Aviation: Military Delivery and Export