Royal Netherlands Navy

[walter]

I'm curious as in why nobody wanted to give his/her(for the ladies )opinion for the Walrus.(post i made on page 4)

I'm not talking about an "in detail" conversation,just wanted to know what you thought of it and maybe give your thoughts in what could be better,or could be done differently.
I know it's an evolution of the Zwaardvis class(just called Walrus)and the new one will be a Walrus ng(prob)

My thoughts were how do you see it,as they were new and now offcourse.

For example:
-should we stay in the "inbetween" class(displacement wise)
-should we go for AIP,or not(don't really know what merrits it brings,rather then you can "lay" at the bottem longer,or go further submerged)but maybe this is allready possible now or in the near future(new batteries,engines,etc)as said not an expert.
-increase range(wich is allways a good thing,i think)
-increase diving depth(if possible,also a good thing,i think)
-further automatisation(however there is a small crew allready on these boats)
-How are they in comparrison to the swedish,german,or even(G forbid)aussies and japanese?
-etc ,etc

In my opinion i allways thought they were/are great boats(i mean designed by a small country,and still one of the best,my thoughts)


thanks in advance(hoping that someone will comment on these)

gr,walter

 

[walter]

Portuguese Navy Plans Modernization
Dual-use navy requires balanced fleet

Portuguese Navy Plans Modernization | Defense Media Network

Not for the Dutch navy(but they've got 2 M-class frigattes ,formerly dutch owned/designed)

What will include this:
-Extensive upgrading of the 2 M-class ships
-Upgrade for the "Meko's"
-New "AOR"(Area Of Responsebillity)
-The wish for an LPD(2020/2022 time line),
Maybe ineresting for the Dutch to sell them the Rotterdam and built themselfs A new ship(2nd JSS perhaps)

gr,walter

 

[RobWilliams]

If they're talking about fleet renewal, AOR probably refers to an auxiliary replenishment vessel.

 

[walter]

If they're talking about fleet renewal, AOR probably refers to an auxiliary replenishment vessel.

More like upgrades,ships,lynxes and the wish for an LPD(maybe that's a renewal,i thought you meant new ships,my bad)For the AOR probably.(if they get a new one,or as i offered up as an possibillity"Rotterdam"(good for the Damen group as thay could possibly design a new JSS,if the Portugese should go fo that)

As you see ,i'm real dutchie,trying to wheel and deal,lol(just kidding):dbanana

 

[walter]

and finally she's in service(building,to sell or not to sell,outfitting and seatrials completed)

"our new pride and joy"

Kate Tringham, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
24 September 2015
HNLMS Karel Doorman seen conducting replenishment-at-sea operations with the De Zeven Provincien-class air-defence and command frigate HNLMS Tromp. Source: Royal Netherlands Navy

The Netherlands Defence Material Organisation (DMO) formally handed over the 28,000-ton Joint Logistic Support Ship (JSS) HNLMS Karel Doorman to the Royal Netherlands Navy (RNLN) on 24 September.

The ceremony marked the successful completion of the majority of the ship's sea acceptance test programme, a DMO spokesperson said. Karel Doorman will now start its work-up trajectory, with a view to achieving full operational readiness by mid-2016.

Built by Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding yard in Vlissingen under a contract signed in December 2009, Karel Doorman was laid down in June 2011 and launched in October 2012. Before completion the ship found itself in 2013 declared surplus to requirements under austerity-driven defence budget cuts. The decision was reversed by the Dutch government and it officially entered service with the RNLN on 24 April 2015.

Following commissioning, the ship embarked on a nine-week deployment to Norway, Canada, the United States, and the Dutch Antilles where it conducted warm weather trials, and underwater and magnetic signature testing under DMO supervision. In addition to the DMO's test programme, Karel Doorman was used for replenishment at sea operations throughout the nine weeks, transport of equipment to the Dutch Antilles, and successful trials with a Bell-Boeing MV-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft. It also participated in the annual 'Hurricane Exercise' ('HUREX 2015'), demonstrating the versatility and potential of the ship, the spokesperson said.

Prior to commissioning, in November 2014 the ship also completed a three-month deployment to West Africa to deliver aid to Ebola-struck countries.

 

[walter]

A primary role for the "zeven" in "at sea demonstration 2015" First ship with a 2000 kms radar detecting range.

Starring Dutch frigate in major European missile defense exercise

6624915416

By: Jaime Karremann
Posted: 12-10-2015

From 17 to October 27 plays Zr.Ms. The Seven Provinces a key role in Europe's largest defense exercise against ballistic missiles. The frigate must At Sea during the Demonstration 2015 detect a ballistic missile in space and designate for destruction. An exclusive interview with expert KLTZ Fred Douglas.

The Seven Provinces
Zr.Ms The Seven Provinces shrouded in smoke after the launch of an SM-2 missile. (Photo: Ministry of Defence)

Air defense and command frigate Zr.Ms. The Seven Provinces takes currently participating in the great British exercise Joint Warrior. Normally, this is a highlight, but this time it's a warm-up for a very special event in European waters.

Because of 17 t / m October 27 for the first time in history tracked a ballistic missile exercises in space, followed and brought down from European waters. But there is still something special: the first time a European naval ship will detect a missile in space and simultaneously other missiles, skimming just over the waves, knockdown. What ship did you say? Yes, Zr.Ms. The Seven Provinces.

Here she is firing rockets(Harpoons) for the coast of the US.(exercise)

https://youtu.be/tMg3CyTINQk

She can't shoot 'm down though,due to the lack of sm-3 rockets,so the USS Ross will do that.

 

[walter]

And some updates here,offcourse

Belgium and the Netherlands buy new mine clearance vessels

News item 05-07-2019 | 15:17

The construction of 12 new mine combat vessels through Belgium (6) and the Netherlands (6) has been underlined today at a high level. Today, State Secretary Barbara Visser, the Belgian defense minister Didier Reynders, shipbuilder Naval Group and ECA Robotics signed the contract in Brussels. The latter company builds the mine-fighting drone systems with which the ships are equipped.
Artist impression of future mine clearance equipment and operations.

Artist impression of future mine clearance equipment and operations.

This concerns 2,800-tonne naval vessels specialized in mine clearance. They are particularly quiet for this task and emit few electromagnetic waves. Both signals can trigger mines. They are also shockproof.

With the joint mine combat capacity, Belgium and the Netherlands confirm their leading position in the field of defense cooperation. State Secretary Barbara Visser on signing: "I am grateful to the Belgian Ministry of Defense for the cooperation and the way in which the project has been implemented so far."
State Secretary Barbara Visser, the Belgian defense minister Didier Reynders, shipbuilder Naval Group and ECA Robotics sign the contract.
Extensive package of unmanned systems

The ships receive an extensive package of unmanned surface and underwater systems. Take the unmanned Inspector 125 vessel. This innovative platform allows the ship and its crew to operate at a safe distance. It also increases employability.

The Inspector 125, in turn, has various drone systems on board that are linked to the mine control vessel combat system. These are autonomous A18-M underwater systems, T18-M drawn sonar systems and mine identification and destruction systems, such as the remote-controlled Seascan and KSTER-C. All drones can be deployed from the Inspector 125. The package also includes flying and mine-sweeping drones. Each ship receives a total of around 10 drones.
Artist impression of an Inspector 125 that launches an autonomous underwater system.

Artist impression of an Inspector 125 that launches an autonomous underwater system.
Belgian-Dutch navy cooperation

The Belgian-Dutch navy cooperation (BENESAM) goes a long way. There are joint and integrated staffs, education, training and operations. And in addition to the joint purchase of mine-fighting capacity, the countries will also jointly purchase virtually identical M-frigates. This makes it possible to distribute the maintenance of these ship types among themselves.

Belgium is the leading party in the replacement of the mine clearance capacity and the Netherlands in the M-frigates.

België en Nederland kopen nieuwe mijnenbestrijdingsvaartuigen

 

[walter]

The To be build A-834,the "Den Helder"

Combat Support Ship

The Netherlands currently has one ship that can perform the supply task at sea, the Joint Support Ship (JSS) Zr.Ms. Karel Doorman. However, the JSS can be used for many other purposes than procurement. To increase the effectiveness of the deployment of Dutch naval vessels, the Ministry of Defense needs a second supply ship. This will be the Combat Support Ship (CSS) that is called Zr.Ms. Den Helder will serve the Royal Netherlands Navy. The Ministry of Defense, Dutch naval construction and Damen will design and build this fantastic ship together.


Damen & The Royal Netherlands Navy

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

And some updates here,offcourse

Belgium and the Netherlands buy new mine clearance vessels

News item 05-07-2019 | 15:17

The construction of 12 new mine combat vessels through Belgium (6) and the Netherlands (6) has been underlined today at a high level. Today, State Secretary Barbara Visser, the Belgian defense minister Didier Reynders, shipbuilder Naval Group and ECA Robotics signed the contract in Brussels. The latter company builds the mine-fighting drone systems with which the ships are equipped.
Artist impression of future mine clearance equipment and operations.

Artist impression of future mine clearance equipment and operations.

This concerns 2,800-tonne naval vessels specialized in mine clearance. They are particularly quiet for this task and emit few electromagnetic waves. Both signals can trigger mines. They are also shockproof.

With the joint mine combat capacity, Belgium and the Netherlands confirm their leading position in the field of defense cooperation. State Secretary Barbara Visser on signing: "I am grateful to the Belgian Ministry of Defense for the cooperation and the way in which the project has been implemented so far."
State Secretary Barbara Visser, the Belgian defense minister Didier Reynders, shipbuilder Naval Group and ECA Robotics sign the contract.
Extensive package of unmanned systems

The ships receive an extensive package of unmanned surface and underwater systems. Take the unmanned Inspector 125 vessel. This innovative platform allows the ship and its crew to operate at a safe distance. It also increases employability.

The Inspector 125, in turn, has various drone systems on board that are linked to the mine control vessel combat system. These are autonomous A18-M underwater systems, T18-M drawn sonar systems and mine identification and destruction systems, such as the remote-controlled Seascan and KSTER-C. All drones can be deployed from the Inspector 125. The package also includes flying and mine-sweeping drones. Each ship receives a total of around 10 drones.
Artist impression of an Inspector 125 that launches an autonomous underwater system.

Artist impression of an Inspector 125 that launches an autonomous underwater system.
Belgian-Dutch navy cooperation

The Belgian-Dutch navy cooperation (BENESAM) goes a long way. There are joint and integrated staffs, education, training and operations. And in addition to the joint purchase of mine-fighting capacity, the countries will also jointly purchase virtually identical M-frigates. This makes it possible to distribute the maintenance of these ship types among themselves.

Belgium is the leading party in the replacement of the mine clearance capacity and the Netherlands in the M-frigates.

België en Nederland kopen nieuwe mijnenbestrijdingsvaartuigen

Thanks for sharing, these new mine-hunters are really large for this kind of vessel. Severel times larger in displacement than the current Tripartite/Alkmaar-klasse mine-hunters, they have more the size of a fregat.

With such a size these ships can also perform a role as Offshore Patrol Vessels, which give them also more potential for the export market.

 

[walter]

Thanks for sharing, these new mine-hunters are really large for this kind of vessel. Severel times larger in displacement than the current Tripartite/Alkmaar-klasse mine-hunters, they have more the size of a fregat.

With such a size these ships can also perform a role as Offshore Patrol Vessels, which give them also more potential for the export market.

well,don't know about the OPV part(to be seen what stuff will be onboard),but definitely possibillities for the Naval Group.(still sad that they didn't go for the Damen option.

And they will be "mothorships",so will not be going into minefields,but use drones to search and clear-up.

 

[DaveS124]

This lad might be in a spot of bother.

Not sure why, just something that came to mind when reading this, from Navy Today.

"" The Netherlands Armed Forces gendarmerie (Koninklijke Marechaussee) has found 11 kilos of cocaine aboard the landing platform dock HNLMS Jophan de Witt following an extensive search.

The defense ministry explained that the drug raid was related to the arrest of a sailor assigned to the ship in September this year. ""

Link here Military police find 11 kilos of cocaine aboard Dutch landing platform dock

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

This lad might be in a spot of bother.

Not sure why, just something that came to mind when reading this, from Navy Today.

"" The Netherlands Armed Forces gendarmerie (Koninklijke Marechaussee) has found 11 kilos of cocaine aboard the landing platform dock HNLMS Jophan de Witt following an extensive search.

The defense ministry explained that the drug raid was related to the arrest of a sailor assigned to the ship in September this year. ""

Link here Military police find 11 kilos of cocaine aboard Dutch landing platform dock

Yes, this was last week if im not wrong. I think this will be the end of his career at the Koninklijke Marine....

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

About the Walrusklasse replacement..

 

[DaveS124]

I think this will be the end of his career at the Koninklijke Marine....

Indeed!

Also, I think he is destined to acquire forensic knowledge of the inside of Dutch prisons.

That quantity - 11kg - is big-time trafficking.

What an idiot.

 

[ngatimozart]

Indeed!

Also, I think he is destined to acquire forensic knowledge of the inside of Dutch prisons.

That quantity - 11kg - is big-time trafficking.

What an idiot.

No promotion on that side of the ocean for that boy. You are right, one big idiot.

 

[Ananda]

Further Xavier interview with SAAB and Damen on their Joint Partnership program for Walrus SSK replacement. Based on Swedish A26, however they are planning for the cooperation to create new submarine with flexible modular design that can be adapted to each customers need.

Clearly they are planning for export market after Walrus replacement. Seems SAAB wants to partner with Damen not only for Dutch program, by leveraging Damen export experience in collaboration with each customers local industry on export.
For Damen, with much has been passed with long gap after Walrus construction, they clearly also want to have continuation of the project with export potential.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Further Xavier interview with SAAB and Damen on their Joint Partnership program for Walrus SSK replacement. Based on Swedish A26, however they are planning for the cooperation to create new submarine with flexible modular design that can be adapted to each customers need.

Clearly they are planning for export market after Walrus replacement. Seems SAAB wants to partner with Damen not only for Dutch program, by leveraging Damen export experience in collaboration with each customers local industry on export.
For Damen, with much has been passed with long gap after Walrus construction, they clearly also want to have continuation of the project with export potential.

Good to see that Kockums (Saab) and Koninklijke Schelde (Damen) are teaming up to develop the Walrusklasse replacement based on the A26 Class.

Sadly that the Netherlands lost so much knowledge and expertise with the bankruptcy of RDM, but that will be completely compensated because of Kockums, the makers of the Vastergotland, Gotland and Collins classes.

Besides the 4 Walrus boats, there is a lot of export potential.

Thanks for sharing the video Ananda! (Mooi monumentaal pand trouwens.)

 

[Redlands18]

Good to see that Kockums (Saab) and Koninklijke Schelde (Damen) are teaming up to develop the Walrusklasse replacement based on the A26 Class.

Sadly that the Netherlands lost so much knowledge and expertise with the bankruptcy of RDM, but that will be completely compensated because of Kockums, the makers of the Vastergotland, Gotland and Collins classes.

Besides the 4 Walrus boats, there is a lot of export potential.

Thanks for sharing the video Ananda! (Mooi monumentaal pand trouwens.)

Very interesting Sail design concept. Haven’t seen anything like it on any other Sub

 

[Ananda]

Besides the 4 Walrus boats, there is a lot of export potential.

I do understand why SAAB wants to partner with Damen on the Walrus replacement project. However the video mentioned on their team up for export, make's me wondering a bit.

The swedish actually have more success than the Dutch on exporting Submarine or Submarine design (Australia and Singapore).. however don't think the Dutch have even succeeded on any Submarine export projects whether selling submarine it self or the design.

They always losing out to the German on that, or even French (in the case of Malaysia). I remember in 90's they are try to convince either Indonesia or Malaysia for their secondhand Zwaardvis or upgraded design (like Taiwan Hai Lung) to compete with German and French design.
Somehow eventough Zwaardvis or Walrus is good submarine design..they just seems can't bring any Navy to procured them.

Thus eventough in the Video the Damen spokesperson elaborate their export experience and their track record on collaboration with local customers shipyard for export market, I just bit wondering if it's enough for SAAB/Sweden to collaborate with Damen/Dutch on Submarine export ventures. What value added Damen will bring to SAAB on submarine export market?

Anyway looking to Damen building, remind me in some old Batavia times building in Jakarta old City area. Those interior is very close to those building..very collonials Dutch era.
Those building in Jakarta old City area still being used until now, mostly by Banks.

 

[Redlands18]

I do understand why SAAB wants to partner with Damen on the Walrus replacement project. However the video mentioned on their team up for export, make's me wondering a bit.

The swedish actually have more success than the Dutch on exporting Submarine or Submarine design (Australia and Singapore).. however don't think the Dutch have even succeeded on any Submarine export projects whether selling submarine it self or the design.

They always losing out to the German on that, or even French (in the case of Malaysia). I remember in 90's they are try to convince either Indonesia or Malaysia for their secondhand Zwaardvis or upgraded design (like Taiwan Hai Lung) to compete with German and French design.
Somehow eventough Zwaardvis or Walrus is good submarine design..they just seems can't bring any Navy to procured them.

Thus eventough in the Video the Damen spokesperson elaborate their export experience and their track record on collaboration with local customers shipyard for export market, I just bit wondering if it's enough for SAAB/Sweden to collaborate with Damen/Dutch on Submarine export ventures. What value added Damen will bring to SAAB on submarine export market?

Anyway looking to Damen building, remind me in some old Batavia times building in Jakarta old City area. Those interior is very close to those building..very collonials Dutch era.
Those building in Jakarta old City area still being used until now, mostly by Banks.

Hai Lung-class [Zwaardvis] Submarine - Republic of China [Taiwan] Navy
Actually the Netherlands sold 2 Zwaardvis class Subs to Taiwan in the 1980s