Bluey 006
Member
Agree! We have much more lift than we've had in the past. More than enough for what we'd actually deploy in most situations. Personally I'd like to see Choules to be replaced by two slightly smaller LPD (a number of designs around), which would give us an exceptional amphibious capability.
It seems the underlying driver for this mythical 3rd LHD is the F-35B and aviation capability for the fleet? Yes?
Lets not forget that the USN is landing high end drones on carriers now. So, it is not unreasonable to think that by 2030-2040 UAV carriers (aka UxV combatant as an open source example concept) will be making an appearance.
Numerous defence industry voices (to numerous to name) in the US are advocating designing an aircraft carrier that is devoted to the launch and recovery of unmanned aviation.
Why built 27,000 tonne LHD for manned fighters when you could build UAV carriers half the size that could achieve the same effects with drones, cyber warfare and missiles? And!!! most importantly put less pilots at risk. Or even more likely UAVs flown directly from home bases.
I am all for FAA for the RAN but I don't believe it has to be F-35B.
I expect as UAVs develop they'll become even cheaper. Widening the gap with manned fighters, they'll have a smaller footprint and less logistical burden. They'll be smaller and harder to detect, they'll have (already do) better fuel economy and be able to penetrate deep into enemy A2AD areas. Modules,parts and weapons, possibility even whole vehicles be able to be 3D printed aboard the ship
Laser CIWS and air defence systems as well as rail guns will likely be in play by then. How will this impact Naval warfare? Will aircraft lose their edge? How will we overwhelm or confuse those systems?
If we are going to build an additional major fleet flat top. I'd prefer to see a dedicated UAV carrier with a focus on ASW.
I am imagining a trimaran through-deck cruiser (12,000-20,000 tonnes) equipped with multiple UAVs (fixed and rotary wing) , a well deck of some kind for deploying surface and underwater vehicles plus VLS cells. It would take on Strike/Recon, ASW, CAS, CAP etc missions traditionally associated with a carrier but with half the footprint, logistics burden, and manning requirements, thus therefore much lower cost.
What do those pushing for a 3rd LHD think will have more impact?
6-8 F-35B? (max you'd likely be able to effectively operate off an LHD)
or
16- 48+ UCAV that are only slightly less capable paired with unmanned EA/EW, AAR, AWACS and mini subs.
In a 2008 Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments report they strongly recommends carrier-based drone development, They state that “with aerial refueling, a [combat drone] would be able to stay airborne for 50 to 100 hours — five to ten times longer than a manned aircraft.”
That means with drones we can do more with less. I am certain that Australian defence planners aware of our finite defence budget are across this point.
In April, the USN moved closer toward unmamed carrier aviation by installing the first unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) command center aboard the Nimitz-class supercarrier USS Carl Vinson. Take this as a sign of things to come,
I could go on and on .......... Currently the "old boys club" attitudes are changing, as demonstrated above, within 5-10 years their "traditionalist" arguments for manned fighters will all be a dying a slow death.
F/A-XX and F-X may have manned versions but they'll almost certainly have an unmanned option too. Well at least from my "uninformed" point of view.
Last edited:
