Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter icelord
- Start date
- Status
I'd start scrolling back as we've covered this numerous times
Vinson & Stennis were segregationist southern politicians. They were both pretty nasty pieces of work, especially Stennis, who as a prosecutor fought hard for the death penalty for some black men whose convictions were entirely based on confessions which had been tortured out of them, there being no other real evidence - in full knowledge of how the confessions had been obtained.
The US navy should be ashamed of those names.
Range will have to be extended which means extending the length of the submarine.
When Coles was appointed many old hands at ASC were positively beaming and his report, although unwritten at that point was confidently summarised as "if you want to operate a fleet of six submarines, you need to fund a fleet of six submarines". The most beneficial effect of the Coles report was it took the governments boot off ASCs throat and gave them the opportunity to run their maintenance program the way they had been begging to be allowed to run it since Collins commissioned, i.e. no more micro management such as the government specifying through contractual cost codes which parts of which submarine could be worked on and how and by who, each day.
Nick underscore
Member
:lol3 (I shouldn't laugh really)
The process 'disconnected' to the point of autism.
It's understandable how it fell into this situation, but as you say the Coles report has allowed ASC to get on with it and it seems to be paying off.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Well it does appear that the Court Jester, Conroy, has now commented:
Subs can be ready by 2026: Conroy
if anyone has seen Conroy on Skynews then they know that Conroy knows as much about subs and industry as Trump understands foreign policy
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
The critics have spent the last decade attacking the Collins class now they are attacking the amount of time being taken to design and build their replacements. Will anything ever please these people, learn from the mistakes from the Collins and get the design right. There is far too much riding on this to rush the new Subs.
Joe Black
Active Member
ex-RAN Admiral Peter Briggs on AIP
SEA1000: the importance of dived endurance (part 2)
I think he argues for AIP to be included in Sea1000.
SEA1000: the importance of dived endurance (part 2)
I think he argues for AIP to be included in Sea1000.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Conroy would have been smarter to keep his trap shut, but he's not smart, dumb as dog $hit.
God help us if he is ever the 'real' Def Min!
gawd help us all, I'll be emigrating if that halfwit gets in as christmas island could declare independence and seize the country if he ever gets to manage ADO resources
John Newman
The Bunker Group
GF, mate, I've already got my 'emigration' plan in place if that does happen, my partner is Czech by birth, and we've checked out real estate costs in her home town of Karlovy Vary (the German name is Carlsbad), the largest spa town in Western Bohemia, it's well less than an hour to the German border.
Anyway, the price of housing there is extremely cheap compared to Oz, One Million Czech Crowns is the equivalent of about A$55k, in fact my partners brother is retiring back to Czech after living here for 40 years, his weekly pension in Aussie dollars is about the equivalent to the 'weekly' Czech wage!
FlatsKarlovy Vary region - Real Estates-Property Â*in the Czech Republic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlovy_Vary
And of course Czech beer (pretty good drop!), is cheaper than bottled water too!
Cheers,
PS, If we have any $'s left over I also hear there are some Greek Islands going cheap too!!
Definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed.
I seriously wish we could pick an all stars team from the majors and just consign the left and right fringe dwellers along with the moronic and mentally impaired permanently to the opposition benches. I honestly believe that if the fringe elements, ideologues and professional politicians (machinemen, faceless men and faction leaders) could be segregated, those who remain would find much more common ground and do a much better job governing.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Not only is he not the sharpest tool in the shed, there are other good descriptions of him 'couple of sandwiches short of a picnic basket', 'not rowing with all oars in the water', 'the driveway doesn't go all the way to the front door of his house', etc, etc. Basically 'dumb as dog $hit'.
Anyway......
On your point of 'picking an all stars' team, I sometimes wish we could have 'Defence / National Security' as separate from day to day (and change of) Government (but would no doubt have to be a Constitutional change too).
Have a system where defence of the nation stood above day to day politics, was not subject to the 'whims' of changes of Government, one day a pro defence Government and the next a Government that wanted to rip dollars out for some stupid pink batts scheme or the like, basically consistency and stability of National Security and Defence.
Unfortunately that won't happen, Defence is as much of the 'political football' game as any other area of Government, nice idea, but won't happen.
Which brings me to the one alternative that might work.....
We put a 'benevolent' Dictator in power for at least a 10 year period, give him/her a clear set of guidelines to follow, 10 years to make it all happen.
Then at the end of 10 years (before they become too comfortable in the job), take them out the back, 'dispose' of them, and put a new fresh one in for the following 10 years.
Repeat as necessary!!!
Soylent Green for politicians.....
I know that we have been reflecting on the misfortunes and misfits of defence for some posts now. What is the considered opinion of the current defmin? I have no inside knowledge of course, but impressions are that this is a competent, capable and hard working lady.
Anyone care to comment
MB
Anyone care to comment
MB
good operator, a golden mile ahead of the prev
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Soylent Green! God, haven't seen that movie for as long as I can remember, but yes a great solution for 'recycling' politicians.
The other alternative is a 'Logan's Run' type solution (for when people get to 30, the crystal imbedded in the palm of their hand changed colour, they go off to be vaporised, allegedly to be reborn).
Either or would suffice for our pollies, or just the good old 'lead tick' too!
My 2 cents.. I think traditional AIP is on the way out as lithium ion AIP is on the way in, in a big way. Lithium offers heaps of potential benefits. It can adjust its output very easily, be recharged (and can be recharged quickly), huge discharge surge capability, holds its energy for long periods compared to traditional AIP, low maintenance, no moving parts. All very obvious stuff. But will rewrite snorting and impact on effective ConOps.
The Japanese already have a pretty extensive history with AIP and would have considered all available AIP systems (they would have licenced anything they wanted, they are obviously very familiar with fuel cells/reformers, toyota manufactures fuel cell powered cars with 120kw FC stacks). They are going with lithium and binning the previous AIP setup.I think that speaks pretty large amount. If the Japanese engineer to take advantage of the benefits of Lithium it could be a real game changer, they intend to use more than an after thought.
I think its something we should look at. But it would seem silly to force the Japanese to include it when they have deleted it from their own subs (which had AIP) and then when with a newer technology. I don't know but this sounds like German and French suggestions. If you had to force Japan, they would put forward the stirling engines, which we all know are inferior to German fuel cells, so the logical outcome is a big red cross for the Japanese, even if they have an overall superior solution.
The Japanese are a generation ahead in Li-on in subs (IMO).Kokuryū is in the water now. You have nearly a year of operational data from a real submarine in the water now. Thats first gen right there done and dusted in a 4000t sub operating in the SCS, not being talked about, or constructed or prototype or testing, but being replaced or improved on the design!.
IMO this is exactly where having operated subs of this size and this type of mission profile I would be looking very hard at the Japanese. By looking I mean not blinking.
As mentioned, in high demand applications lithium can be 3 times more effective than lead acid other times <1.2. So to get the most you want lithium where it can do the most good and for systems to be designed to take advantage of that, not just wedged into an existing setup to say its there. Its not just about energy density, its more complicated than that. (but energy density is certainly a German AIP strength, they aren't lying, but if you were ignorant you could easily assume the Germans have the clear technological edge with out delving deeper). The Japanese of course, say, well they say nothing. Anything that is said, is a massive understatement or contains so little information most westerners might disregard it completely.
Which is also a reason I reckon to not rush the Japanese. Do it properly. Collins is a hell of a boat now, and with life left, we don't have to jump immediately.
It reads (IMO) that Peter has been swayed by Rex Patricks (well written) article and the Germans and the French, while the Japanese, as per normal, say absolutely nothing. It seems like a fair comment, consider AIP, and we probably should if purely from an academic point, maybe thats what hes saying. But I wouldn't tie it up with the selection of the boats. We care about the overall capability, not focused of the theoretical performance of one aspect which is quite possibly going to be made obsolete.
The reason the Japanese are saying nothing I would imagine is that many people seem to indicate what they have is mind blowing, and they don't want to talk publicly about anything they are doing in detail (or even broad brush strokes). On top of being a culture that isn't overtly talkative, and limited military sales experience, may seem like they have nothing to say which is not true.
The Germans are running a massive publicity program, playing the smart tight strategic game, pushing the numbers and their advantage in certain technologies, the French have already started making wild claims detached from reality with passion and flair, screw the cost and risk, 6 engines! Biggest! Nuclear secrets! Americas best friend, ever!. Both have sent political and media people to their yards overseas.
If nothing else this is giving the Japanese the first real taste of international military sales.
The Japanese proposal is more complicated than just replacing the AIP with lithium batteries. That is not what the Japanese are offering the RAN (but many expected them to, OTS, overseas build and all that). They are offering a bigger sub than what has AIP currently or than what Japan intends to operate themselves. That (IMO) is huge. Public domain doesn't reveal much more than that. They aren't offering just an OTS solution (but it is very low risk and based on a OTS solution). Japan is designing a unique and capable solution for Australia.
Which is the problem for the French and Germans. They really don't know what they are fighting against. But the Germans have quite a strong AIP fuel cell so no doubt they will hammer that to anyone who will listen, and no one will contest their AIP fuel cell capability.
Its reasons like this you need level heads in the PM and Defence positions that aren't going to make wild statements or interfere.
- Status